Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

10 Jun 2014

See also: IRC log


Jon_Avila, John_Foliot, Kathy_Wahlbin, Kathleen_Anderson, Sailesh, Bruce_B


<trackbot> Date: 10 June 2014

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Post_WCAG_2

<Kenny> W3C WAI, and base on China

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

#5 left on survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2705_2014/

<Joshue> Wilco: It's a minor thing that I come accross.

<Joshue> Wilco: I'm not too bothered about it, it's worth reporting.

<Joshue> JOC: Ok

<David> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/H51.html

<Joshue> JOC: It seems to really be saying that some small tables don't need headers, but adding table headers is good practice and I'd like to support that.

David: Is it the new version of the specification?

Loretta: Interesting question

Josh: I think to leave it open because we're not sure about Michael C ment with his proposal

RESOLUTION: Leave LC-2869 open

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140520/ (#3 and #4)

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Grouping_related_links_using_the_nav_element

Loretta: I remember the group said there is accessibility support for the technique

David: Kathy suggested primary, and secondary refered to by label
... We should probably talk with a bigger group

Loretta: Sending it back may send it to a black hole

Josh: Technique is mostly OK

Loretta: I worry about documenting all the uses of ARIA

David: No ARIA on the first example, only the second
... There is controversy about the menu role

only for the type of menu like you have in the top of office

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Grouping_related_links_using_the_nav_element

Josh: Should we put it to bed or leave it for discussion next week

Loretta: Leaving it open may mean the comment doesn't reach the right person

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Working_Group_Techniques_Development_Assignments

<David> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/HTML5

Everyone: MrAccess is Jon

Josh: Decide to leave untill Jon is on call

David: Maybe people don't know secondary, and conventions may be different in other places

James: Top menu may often be primary menu, and secondary may be the drop down menu
... I'm not sold on primary or secondary, but a consistent thing for people to use is a good idea

Josh: I don't like but don't particularly object to 'primary' and 'secondary'

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks_to_identify_regions_of_a_page

Loretta: Makes me wonder if this should be part of WCAG techniques

James: Change the div to nav on example 3

<Joshue> +q

Josh: If you change div to nav, you are doubling the navigation?

Prefer David's example, the primary navigation is important, secondary is not so important

I like the example there

Josh: David, add the example please
... add ARIA11 as a related technique?

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ARIA11.html

David: I will add it

Josh: Suggested change by Andrew: Identifying a section of content containing navigation links

nobody in favour, leave it

Loretta: I'm against this change, test procedures are already hard enough not to add accessibility support to the test

we should use a user agent note

Josh: Don't see a massive benefit to changing the test procedure

Keep the current procedure?

<Joshue> I'm not sure about ' represent a section of the page'.

<Joshue> Should it talk about functionality

Loretta: He wants to shift the example content into the description

not clear what is ment

David: Just putting in some text to address Loretta's comment

JosH: Having a little problem parsing the suggestion into what's there

Loretta: All comments are about adding role in place of the nav element

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Grouping_related_links_using_the_nav_element

<AWK> link?

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Grouping_related_links_using_the_nav_element

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140520/results

Loretta: I think it's better to cross reference HTML5 and ARIA techniques rather then trying to combine them, that's confusing

<David> finished editing https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Grouping_related_links_using_the_nav_element

Building fallbacks into techniques makes them hard to understand

AWK: I don't feel strongly about adding accessibility support to the description

Loretta: We have a separate technique for this

AWK: It looks like the example content is not there anymore, there is no problem

Josh: David, the heading example 1 is the same as example 2

David: I'll fix, and changed the last line of the description

Marc: My comment has been added in.

Josh: I don't see 2.4.1

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-skip.html

Loretta: There was support for jumping over sections

I don't know if marking it up as nav means you can navigate around it

Josh: We won't add 2.4.1
... To address Kathleen's comment, seems a fairly small change
... suggested text

<Joshue> Suggested text 'Check to see that non-navigation items are not in the nav container'

David: There might be headings

other content too can help persons along

Josh: If people put something useful in there, leave the test step off

<David> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/sections.html#the-nav-element

David: Nav can contain all kinds of elements

in html 5

Loretta: I think the navigation section is a bunch of links, but I was not part of the HTML5 discussion

Josh: I think we leave out the suggestion, so we're not too perscriptive

Loretta: I feel mildly it is a benefit

<Joshue> JOC: If there isn't a lot of misuse in the wild then the test procedure shouldn't be too proscriptive

David: I've not seen this go wrong, and it is a risk if we require only links in nav

Josh: Should be ../ instead of ./
... Michael suggest it should be a new paragraph

suggest moving the last sentense

Josh: I will change it

excellent comment from Michael.

Josh: Detlev's comments are addressed, same for Loretta

RESOLUTION: Technique accepted as amended

<Joshue> Next week start at F76 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140520/results

Review open action items: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/

Josh: Please continue to review your action items

Review open issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/

<Joshue> Josh: Please continue to review your action items


Josh: We want to think critically about the success criteria

gather feedback on the post WCAG 2 wiki


David: JAWS and NVDA did not know what to do with the aside technique

I'll pull out the example

<Joshue> Let's leave this open https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_aside_element_to_associate_content_related_to_an_article

<Joshue> We will look at the Pull requests on this survey next week https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/10thJune2014/

Loretta: It does not sound clear what the intended use of the technique is

<Loretta> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G115.html

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Possibly Present: AWK Andrew_Kirkpatrick BarryJohnson David David_MacDonald Everyone IPcaller JOC James James_Nurthen Josh Joshue Kenny Loretta Marc Marc_Johlic Wilco aaaa https inserted jamesn joined marcjohlic trackbot wai-wcag
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Regrets: Jon_Avila John_Foliot Kathy_Wahlbin Kathleen_Anderson Sailesh Bruce_B

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Found Date: 10 Jun 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/06/10-wai-wcag-minutes.html
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