W3C

- DRAFT -

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

06 May 2014

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Joshue, AWK, David_MacDonald, kathleen, Michael_Cooper, Kathy_Wahlbin, Marc_Johlic, Sailesh_Panchang, Wilco, Katie_Haritos-Shea
Regrets
Bruce, Bailey
Chair
AWK
Scribe
Kathy, Joshue, David

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 06 May 2014

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

<Kathy> scribe: Kathy

Publication timeline update - Techniques in by May 15!

AWK: reminder techniques are due by May 15th
... Next release is September

David: submitted three techniques

AWK: need to be separated in GitHub

David: there are 3 that are related and I will separate them

Update on Mobile Accessibility Task Force - Kathy W.

Mobile Accessibility Task Force Update

<AWK> Scribe: Joshue

KW: I just want to give an update of Mobile A11y TF work completed to date

<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page

KW: THis is the URL for our wiki
... We have reviewed the mobile a11y pages on the WAI site and suggested changes to EO
... We wanted to clarify the work that is being done.

<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Resources

KW: We have a list of all available mobile resources, this is a collection covering iOS, Android, Windows etc.
... Down the road we hope to publish this as a note.
... We hope to identify what changes can be made to our current techs to make them applicable to mobile.

<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Draft_WCAG_Techniques

KW: This includes hybrid apps, native apps and so on.

<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments

KW: We list the techs applicability in the doc above and what type of mobile app it covers. There is a summary also here of the apps that require changes.
... We will be reviewing this as group this Fri.
... This doesn't include new techs that we need to develop for RWD apps etc but are the ones that require changes.
... We really want feedback so please let us know.

<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/New_WCAG_2.0_Techniques

KW: We've started to identify potential new techniques via brainstorming etc.
... Over the next month we aim to have a defined set of techniques that have examples, a list of new techniques and best practices.
... So thats where we are. If you would like to help, thats great. Getting people to attend meetings et can be a problem.
... We are going to need help writing techniques.
... Questions?

AWK: So you mentioned the mobile resources being published as a note? Is that far away?

KW: It is, it will be published after we some mobile techniques published under WCAG.
... Our main goal is to start working on changes to current techs and getting a good set of publishable mobile techs.

JOC: Great stuff!

AWK: Some techs here are marked as best pratice, what does that mean?

+q

KW: They would simply be WCAG best practice?

-q

KW: We are getting there but just want to identify things.
... We are still brain storming.

DMacD: Will it cover mobile apps?

KW: Yes.

DMacD: Can it apply to things without a http address?

KW: Yes

AWK: We did with WCAG2ICT
... This is an area accross W3C which needs to be discussed further

KW: We are focussing on mobile web.

AWK: Any other questions?
... When do you meet?

KW: Every Friday at 10am EST

<David> friday 10 am fridays

AWK: Anyone who wants to join please do.

KW: Yes! We need help writing, identifying etc, we need more feedback.

Kath: If you look at the mobile page etc that you think should be added send it to me.

MC: You must be a member of the mobile TF to be able to edit that wiki.

AWK: Ok, thoughts?

Survey: 6 May 2014 -

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140506/results

<AWK> Scribe: Kathy

1. New Technique: Using the region role to identify a region on a page

AWK: last week we talked about this and found some additional details and Sailesh made some edits
... Sailesh, what change are you recommending?

Sailesh: looked at ARIA17, the test procedure references accessible name so we should be more specific and say that the region should be labeled

AWK: regions can be named in other ways other than aria-label, aria-labelledby

<Joshue> +q

Sailesh: we can reference the other ways

AWK: likes the simplicity and clarity of how it is now

Katie: I disagree, so we should define since it is an ARIA technique
... Agree with Sailesh

<Loretta> let me call in again

Josh: could go either way with the test procedure

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140311/ARIA17

<Joshue> +q

<Joshue> -q

<Joshue> +q

Loretta: I agree with James that we need to be consistent. Limiting to the existing ways that we have to define accessible name then we would have to go back later

Josh: teachable moment to tell people how to define accessible name

Loretta: including examples is fine, but the test procedure should be open that it is not restricted

<Wilco> +1

James: can we change slightly so that it is open ended but we suggest mechanisms

AWK: makes the procedure a bit more confusing
... it is clear in the description and examples

Josh: we have to decide which way

David: we should show people how do it
... test procedure, fine

<Joshue> overall I'm happy that the techniques are robust enough and that the examples are sufficient so I'd prefer a lighter test procedure

Sailesh: we should be consistent

AWK: I would not want to hold this up for approval. We may have some inconsistencies but it is not inaccurate

Katie: fine staying as is

Josh: ok with it as long as it is consistent with other techniques
... should ARIA 17 be changed

AWK: we can raise as issue to review
... Michael had question on inline code example for #2

Sailesh: fairly involved example, but it will be hard to read through so there is only a link to example

Michael: include just the code part that illustrates the example

<AWK> <div role="region" aria-labelledby="pollhead"> <h3 id="pollhead">This week's Poll</h3>

Michael: just the core lines of code, not the javascript

AWK: it should be relatively simple

Michael: copy the html

AWK: take a look at example 2 - wiki has been updated

Michael: looks good, add the closing elements so it is well formed

<Joshue> +1

AWK: that address the survey comments

RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended

2. Edit to H74 to address HTML5

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140506/results

AWK: suggestion to change the sentence around

Josh: just an editorial suggestion about repetition of words

<AWK> The HTML5 specification changes the requirements for some elements that previously needed opening or closing tags. Please consult the HTML5 specification for more detail.

AWK: how do you feel about this text?

<Joshue> +1

<jamesn> should we add a link - http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/syntax.html#optional-tags

+1

<Wilco> +1

RESOLUTION: add this text to example 1 in H74: The HTML5 specification changes the requirements for some elements that previously needed opening or closing tags. Please consult the HTML5 specification for more detail.

<David> Scribe: David

3. LC-2921

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140306/2921

Akp: Heading for link context... Loretta, says update UA notes

Mc: normally we detail change even if it what commenter

David: only JAWS can do thqt and no one knows how to do it in the real world

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140408/navigation-mechanisms-refs.html

Shailesh: of thqt is only advisory, perhaps in understanding, remove it from explicit mention

James: would be big impact, because lots of people rely on headings sufficient

<Joshue> +q

James: users go to the heading then go

Joshue: I would have liked to spend more time on this issue.

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say the comment is valid that the technique being merely advisory contradicts the text, we should either edit the text (current proposal) or make the

Josh: I've seen this many ways...heading as a link... not fully decided...

Michael: I don't have strong preference but commenter was pointing out inconsistency in test and text of techniques

MC: link context doesn't appear to say that necessary to maintain focus to get

SP: Focus on the link is how we determin programmatic association.

<jamesn> in this version it was sufficient - http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20120103/navigation-mechanisms-refs.html

<Ryladog> That is my recollection as well David. I agree with David.

<Ryladog> +1

<Joshue> +q

Loretta: Support David's recollection of sitting on link... if we are stretching context there is always on the page

<jamesn> JAWS+T

josh: Good point. I see it as user agent issue, obscure keystroke... might

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say would love to know how to dig up instituational memory re H80: since it´s fully worked up but advisory suggests it was once sufficient and then moved

Josh: interesting discussion

<AWK> not sufficient as of: http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20130905/complete.html

MC: H80 moved to advisory

James: in 2012

AWK: Keep open

<AWK> ACTION: AWK to find out when H80 became advisory [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-256 - Find out when h80 became advisory [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2014-05-13].

Resolution: Leave open

LC 2869

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/2869

LC2869

<Wilco> AWK, I'm pretty sure it was somewhere in the second half of last year, hope that helps

<Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to day it was sufficient here http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20120103/navigation-mechanisms-refs.html

<Zakim> AWK, you wanted to ask if links residing within an ARIA region have an enhanced programmatically determined link text?

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/F91.html

AWK: Amending table header failures to allow aria role attribites

<sailesh> Sample with scope in table with colspan and rowspan that works http://mars.dequecloud.com/demo/Table-multi-colWithRowspan.htm

AWK: not just that heading cells proper but that there is a relations, allowing to TH in complex rows

Josh: Voiceover uses heuristics, but not sure about the notion of heuristics, would like more information

<Joshue> http://webaim.org/blog/semantic-automation/

AWK: trying to remember our discussions about 2 vs one row of headers,

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140408/H63

Sailsh: H63

awk: simple tables have th in first row or column

<Joshue> +q

<Joshue> -q

<Joshue> +q to discuss use of id and header vs scope and UA support

SP: h63 is the behaviour for scope... things have changed in jaws and nvda,

<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to discuss use of id and header vs scope and UA support

SP: VO does not support two rows with scope, NVDA, JAWS now work

Katie: for backwards compatibility... concerned about that ... if being supported now, but not for older technologies, we want to be careful about open envirnmnet
... have to take into account people with older technologies

Current test is: headers marked up with table header (th) elements, optionally with scope attributes

headers and data cells associated using headers and id attributes

headers marked up as td elements with the scope attribute

headers marked up with ARIA role attributes rowheader or columnheader

Loretta: always worried about strength failures

AWK: do we think it is sufficient without scope

<jamesn> +1 to Joshue.

Josh: I think so

<Joshue> DMacD: Describes JAWS changes in behaviour

<Joshue> JN: Thats a bug in JAWS right?

<Joshue> DMacD: I haven't checked NVDA etc

<Joshue> AWK: Ok, we need to consider also if we are going to change h63

RESOLUTION: Leave open

AWK: Need to figure out how members can submit comments

adrwe can you stay on with me fot git

<Wilco> bye!

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: AWK to find out when H80 became advisory [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
 
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WARNING: Replacing list of attendees.
Old list: Joshue AWK David_MacDonald kathleen Michael_Cooper Kathy_Wahlbin Marc_Johlic Sailesh_Panchang Wilco Katie_Haritos-Shea [IPcaller] Tim_Boland James_Nurthen
New list: Joshue AWK David_MacDonald kathleen Michael_Cooper Kathy_Wahlbin Marc_Johlic Sailesh_Panchang Wilco Katie_Haritos-Shea

Default Present: Joshue, AWK, David_MacDonald, kathleen, Michael_Cooper, Kathy_Wahlbin, Marc_Johlic, Sailesh_Panchang, Wilco, Katie_Haritos-Shea
Present: Joshue AWK David_MacDonald kathleen Michael_Cooper Kathy_Wahlbin Marc_Johlic Sailesh_Panchang Wilco Katie_Haritos-Shea
Regrets: Bruce Bailey
Found Date: 06 May 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: awk

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