W3C

- DRAFT -

HCLS, FHIR Ontology Discussion

01 Apr 2014

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
ericP, +1.301.398.aaaa, +1.469.226.aabb, jay, Claude, Neda, DBooth, +1.978.794.aacc, Tony
Regrets
Chair
EricP
Scribe
dbooth

Contents


<Claude> 1. Please join my meeting.

<Claude> https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/275068589

<Claude> 2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone.

<Claude> Dial +1 (213) 929-4130

<Claude> Access Code: 275-068-589

<Claude> Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting

<Claude> Meeting ID: 275-068-589

<Claude> GoToMeeting®

<Claude> Online Meetings Made Easy®

<sundaram> hi

<ericP> https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/275068589

<ericP> nested FHIR extensions in XML

are we using the GoToMeeting phone line, or the W3C phone line?

<ericP> nested FHIR extensions in RDF

Tony and I are on the GTM phone line

<ericP> dbooth, w3c phone line

ok, we'll switch

<ericP> 4257#

<Claude> https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/275068589

Introductions

Tony: Worked on healthcare interop for 15 years. Worked on eHealth exchange.
... Started looking on how to express FHIR payload in OWL DL. How to express instance exchange in FHIR, in DL?
... Lots of interest in bringing SNOMED CT, ITSD, and others into DL to blend them.
... Looks like it sort of works in Protege.

Jay: Jay Sundaram, want to find out state of the art. Spent last 14 years as bioinformatics eng. Worked at institute for Genomic research.
... In 2003 decided we'd use community defined standards. Bioinformatics sequence language. GMOD community provided database schema.
... Key piece was controlled vocabularies in OBO. Also taking courses in Hopkins and took Sem Web course, piqued interest in representing datasets in RDF. In AstraZeneca, working on biomarkers. Want to enhance data models to use RDF to see what inferences can be made by leveraging ont.

Eric: This call today is mostly phenotype side. There's another call focused on the genotype side.

Claude's work on FHIR ont

<Claude> http://www.hl7.org/implement/standards/fhir/extensibility.html

<Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to note also the dual use of the "status" predicate (for both datatype and object type) and to say I've been thinking of doing non-monotonic extensions in

Eric: Danger of usign a named graph for non-monotonic extensions with naive representation is that they might accidentally merge the graphs and make wrong conclusions.

David: yes, that's a danger. My motivations in suggestng the use of named graph for non-monotonic: (a) mostly the same software might be used, so easier if the representation is the same; (b) easier for human to grok if the representatino is the same.

Tony: I took a totally different approach.
... based on classes.
... For example, "Active" would be a class, so everything with an Active status would be a member of that class.
... I believe that terms in a controlled vocabulary should be viewed as types in RDF.

Eric: If Active is a class then you can do restriction classes. You can make the class representation from Claude's way of doing it using restriction classes (anonymous classes) with equivalences. This would give Tony the effect that he wants without a named class.

Tony: I said the observation instance is a member of the class and a bunch of other classes also.

David: A key use case for me is to make the resulting RDF simple to read and use, so that people who are not RDF heads can look at it without being intimidated, and understand it.

Claude: Right now at HL7 we have a model/terminology connundrum because they have different granularity. But if they are all represented in teh same medium (RDF) then that distinction can be overcome.

<ericP> terminfo prob

Claude: Can get from one ontology to another using transformations, or a common core.

Eric: Charlie and I worked on eliminating that boundary between terminology and models.
... SNOMED has pre and post coordinated terms that need to be reconciled.
... Need to microparse: have an info model and extra data that needs to be parsed into the model.

<ericP> semantics in terminology

<ericP> in information model

<sundaram> thank you all. interesting discussion. i'll check in again next week. have to get ready for another meeting.

Eric: Can SNOMED precoordinated terms have a mapping to semantics? E.g., that have both diagnosis and severity?

David: What is the status of the SNOMED ontology work?

Tony: The work out of ITSIDU is sanctioned. You can run an export and create RDF from it.

Eric: Kent's script started getting distributed with SNOMED.

David: I heard Tony mention the problem of "custom languages", and I agree!

<ericP> C-CDA in RDF

Eric: There's a representation of the MIF in OWL that Lloyd McKenzie did. Example of C-CDA in RDF.
... That example takes CCDA doc and serializes it according to the ORIM.

eric, we need a way of capturing and linking in screenshots of interactive demos and such, during presentations. do know of any easy way to do that? I can take screenshots easily enough, but would need an easy place to upload them. Then a link would need to be generated and pasted into IRC.

I think i could automate the upload process easily enough, but still would need a place to upload them, and then a way to get the generated URL into IRC. Not sure of an easy way to automate that part.

I've never done IRC hacking.

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.138 (CVS log)
$Date: 2014/04/01 17:44:28 $

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Succeeded: s/ by Tony Malia/s/
Succeeded: s/phenotype side/genotype side/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: dbooth
Inferring Scribes: dbooth
Default Present: ericP, +1.301.398.aaaa, +1.469.226.aabb, jay, Claude, Neda, DBooth, +1.978.794.aacc, Tony
Present: ericP +1.301.398.aaaa +1.469.226.aabb jay Claude Neda DBooth +1.978.794.aacc Tony
Got date from IRC log name: 01 Apr 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-hcls-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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