04:51:19 egonw has joined #HCLS 06:46:28 egonw has joined #HCLS 06:47:16 egonw_ has joined #HCLS 07:10:13 egonw__ has joined #HCLS 07:34:05 egonw__ has joined #HCLS 09:43:41 egonw__ has joined #HCLS 15:00:34 RRSAgent has joined #hcls 15:00:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-hcls-irc 15:07:51 Claude has joined #hcls 15:09:44 Zakim, who is here? 15:09:44 sorry, ericP, I don't know what conference this is 15:09:46 On IRC I see Claude, RRSAgent, Zakim, dbooth, TallTed, egonw__, ericP 15:09:48 Zakim, this is hcls 15:09:48 ok, ericP; that matches SW_HCLS()11:00AM 15:09:50 Zakim, who is here? 15:09:51 On the phone I see ericP, +1.301.398.aaaa, [IPcaller], +1.469.226.aabb 15:09:52 On IRC I see Claude, RRSAgent, Zakim, dbooth, TallTed, egonw__, ericP 15:10:38 Neda has joined #hcls 15:12:16 Zakim, aaaa is jay 15:12:17 +jay; got it 15:12:30 Zakim, [IPcaller] is Claude 15:12:30 +Claude; got it 15:12:34 Zakim, aabb is Neda 15:12:34 +Neda; got it 15:15:55 1. Please join my meeting. 15:15:55 https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/275068589 15:15:55 2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone. 15:15:55 Dial +1 (213) 929-4130 15:15:55 Access Code: 275-068-589 15:15:56 Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting 15:15:56 Meeting ID: 275-068-589 15:15:56 GoToMeeting® 15:15:56 Online Meetings Made Easy® 15:18:14 sundaram has joined #hcls 15:18:21 hi 15:18:23 https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/275068589 15:29:00 -> https://github.com/jmandel/fhir-rdf/blob/master/generic/tests/medicationprescription-nested-nonmon.xml nested FHIR extensions in XML 15:29:11 are we using the GoToMeeting phone line, or the W3C phone line? 15:29:19 -> https://github.com/jmandel/fhir-rdf/blob/master/generic/tests/medicationprescription-nested-nonmon.ttl nested FHIR extensions in RDF 15:29:20 Tony and I are on the GTM phone line 15:29:26 dbooth, w3c phone line 15:29:34 ok, we'll switch 15:29:39 4257# 15:31:38 +DBooth 15:31:52 + +1.978.794.aacc 15:32:08 zakim, aacc is Tony 15:32:08 +Tony; got it 15:32:12 https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/275068589 15:37:42 Topic: Introduction by Tony Malia 15:38:06 Tony: Worked on healthcare interop for 15 years. Worked on eHealth exchange. 15:38:36 ... Started looking on how to express FHIR payload in OWL DL. How to express instance exchange in FHIR, in DL? 15:39:04 ... Lots of interest in bringing SNOMED CT, ITSD, and others into DL to blend them. 15:39:28 ... Looks like it sort of works in Protege. 15:40:43 Jay: Jay Sundaram, want to find out state of the art. Spent last 14 years as bioinformatics eng. Worked at institute for Genomic research. 15:41:18 ... In 2003 decided we'd use community defined standards. Bioinformatics sequence language. GMOD community provided database schema. 15:42:24 ... Key piece was controlled vocabularies in OBO. Also taking courses in Hopkins and took Sem Web course, piqued interest in representing datasets in RDF. In AstraZeneca, working on biomarkers. Want to enhance data models to use RDF to see what inferences can be made by leveraging ont. 15:43:26 Eric: This call today is mostly phenotype side. There's another call focused on the phenotype side. 15:43:36 Topic: Claude's work on FHIR ont 15:44:07 s/ by Tony Malia/s/ 15:48:57 q+ to note also the dual use of the "status" predicate (for both datatype and object type) 15:49:56 q+ to say I've been thinking of doing non-monotonic extensions in separate graphs, represented in the usual naive way in the named graph 15:54:02 http://www.hl7.org/implement/standards/fhir/extensibility.html 15:55:58 ack dbooth 15:55:58 dbooth, you wanted to note also the dual use of the "status" predicate (for both datatype and object type) and to say I've been thinking of doing non-monotonic extensions in 15:56:01 ack dbooth 15:56:01 ... separate graphs, represented in the usual naive way in the named graph 15:58:52 Eric: Danger of usign a named graph for non-monotonic extensions with naive representation is that they might accidentally merge the graphs and make wrong conclusions. 16:01:02 David: yes, that's a danger. My motivations in suggestng the use of named graph for non-monotonic: (a) mostly the same software might be used, so easier if the representation is the same; (b) easier for human to grok if the representatino is the same. 16:01:45 egonw__ has joined #HCLS 16:01:47 Tony: I took a totally different approach. 16:02:34 ... based on classes. 16:03:02 ... For example, "Active" would be a class, so everything with an Active status would be a member of that class. 16:06:26 Tony: I believe that terms in a controlled vocabulary should be viewed as types in RDF. 16:10:36 Eric: If Active is a class then you can do restriction classes. You can make the class representation from Claude's way of doing it using restriction classes (anonymous classes) with equivalences. This would give Tony the effect that he wants without a named class. 16:11:00 Tony: I said the observation instance is a member of the class and a bunch of other classes also. 16:13:30 David: A key use case for me is to make the resulting RDF simple to read and use, so that people who are not RDF heads can look at it without being intimidated, and understand it. 16:14:58 Claude: Right now at HL7 we have a model/terminology connundrum because they have different granularity. But if they are all represented in teh same medium (RDF) then that distinction can be overcome. 16:15:25 -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/TermInfo terminfo prob 16:15:30 ... Can get from one ontology to another using transformations, or a common core. 16:16:04 Eric: Charlie and I worked on eliminating that boundary between terminology and models. 16:16:21 ... SNOMED has pre and post coordinated terms that need to be reconciled. 16:16:42 ... Need to microparse: have an info model and extra data that needs to be parsed into the model. 16:17:08 Tony_ has joined #hcls 16:19:44 -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/TermInfo#Semantics_primarily_represented_in_Terminology_Model semantics in terminology 16:23:10 -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/TermInfo#Atomized_RIM_XML in information model 16:24:39 thank you all. interesting discussion. i'll check in again next week. have to get ready for another meeting. 16:24:43 -jay 16:25:54 Eric: Can SNOMED precoordinated terms have a mapping to semantics? E.g., that have both diagnosis and severity? 16:25:58 sundaram has left #hcls 16:28:24 David: What is the status of the SNOMED ontology work? 16:28:56 Tony: The work out of ITSIDU is sanctioned. You can run an export and create RDF from it. 16:29:29 Eric: Kent's script started getting distributed with SNOMED. 16:42:02 David: I heard Tony mention the problem of "custom languages", and I agree! 16:57:00 -> http://www.w3.org/2013/C-CDA/IJ.xml C-CDA in RDF 16:57:07 Eric: There's a representation of the MIF in OWL that Lloyd McKenzie did. Example of C-CDA in RDF. 16:57:26 ... That example takes CCDA doc and serializes it according to the ORIM. 16:59:20 -Tony 16:59:35 -ericP 16:59:37 -DBooth 16:59:38 -Claude 16:59:40 -Neda 16:59:40 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended 16:59:40 Attendees were ericP, +1.301.398.aaaa, +1.469.226.aabb, jay, Claude, Neda, DBooth, +1.978.794.aacc, Tony 16:59:54 rrsagent, make logs public 17:00:08 Meeting: HCLS, FHIR Ontology Discussion 17:00:13 Chair: EricP 17:00:28 Present: ericP, +1.301.398.aaaa, +1.469.226.aabb, jay, Claude, Neda, DBooth, +1.978.794.aacc, Tony 17:00:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:00:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 17:10:21 eric, we need a way of capturing and linking in screenshots of interactive demos and such, during presentations. do know of any easy way to do that? I can take screenshots easily enough, but would need an easy place to upload them. Then a link would need to be generated and pasted into IRC. 17:12:19 I think i could automate the upload process easily enough, but still would need a place to upload them, and then a way to get the generated URL into IRC. Not sure of an easy way to automate that part. 17:12:31 I've never done IRC hacking. 17:13:33 dbooth has joined #hcls 17:13:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:13:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 17:34:12 egonw__ has joined #HCLS 17:44:17 s/phenotype side/genotype side/ 17:44:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:44:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 18:39:36 Zakim has left #hcls