Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference -- 17 Mar 2014

<trackbot> Date: 17 March 2014

<gcapiel> Weird it didn't see the phone coming in

<liza> Zakim has a case of the Mondays

<liza> Please mute, someone is very loud

<liza> Quiet now

<scribe> scribenick: dauwhe

mgylling: welcome Paul Belfanti

<liza> Welcome!

mgylling: Director of content architecture at Pearson
... co-chair of EDUPUB workshop

Paul, are you on IRC?

mgylling: previous minutes
... any objection to approve?
... minutes are approved.
... Subject: TPAC

<tzviya> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Mar/0031.html minutes from last week

mgylling: some back-and-forth; meeting will likely be Thursday-Friday
... will not be parallel with CSSWG
... which is good and bad
... parallel with HTMLWG

Ivan: we may need Robin or Mike Smith

mygylling: Ivan will fill in form later today
... any other housekeeping items?
... Organization of task forces

<Luc> Luc is mute locally

mygylling: others have been slow
... we need organization that fits the resources we have

<tzviya> is someone on a bus?

mygylling: we will consolidate
... and we will document short-term goals for each task force
... not necessarily singular, but that's fine
... so we have more tangible and easy-to-address work items
... today we'll go through the task forces
... the options were discussed by co-chairs, Tzviya,. and Ivan
... a task force for content and markup
... this "swallows" behavioural adaption and STEM
... led by Tzviya

<liza> STEM

tzviya: we will not be addressing images aspect of this
... some MathML and STEM stuff may have included images

mgylling: we talked a lot about overlap
... in A11Y there's lots of interest in SVG
... it's a crosscutting concern everywhere
... need to handle these issues where they arise

tzviya: not on wiki yet

<Luc> +q

tzviya: we had call on Friday with Rich and Robin about addressing issue of epub:type
... and extend the structural semantic vocabulary
... how to refine the terms that exist in publishing

<tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Summary_of_20140314_Structural_Semantics_Call

tzviya: discussions are outlined in [link TK]
... will incorporate into ARIA
... IDPF will maintain vocab
... validated by W3C validator
... EDUPUB alliance will help build vocab along with IG

mgylling: in terms of wiki link, and this IG producing necessary docs
... should 1st deliverable of task force outline use cases for structural semantics and inflection

<Luc> overlap with metadata TF on content markup?

mgylling: why do we want to do this?
... when HTML5 is so great already
... should task force discuss topic at general level? Here's the use cases that underline topic
... and also discuss and track primary options, like role attribute

tzviya: that makes sense

mgylling: i have some sources of documenation
... action item for mgylling and tzviya to produce 1st version of doc
... changes in ARIA 1.1 and potentially HTML5 and in Validator
... lots of issue tracking required
... good use of IG time

Luc: overlap with metadata task force?
... due to semantic markup
... also interested in content markup
... when you speak about ARIA, you are bringing many semantic markup to the deepest level of the content

Ivan: yes, there a clear connection here
... What we discussed with Rich and others
... we would have a mechanism where role attribute could be used for terms or issues that are not necessarily covered by a18y
... this mechanism can be used for educational purposes, or for things like indexes or glossaries
... find a mechanism that works everywhere, uses attribute based information rather than XML vocab
... we need to establish this mechanism

bring together ARIA, EPUB, HTML5, etc.

Ivan: question for Tzviya
... did we agree on another call?
... there were technical issues about ARIA attribues

tzviya: we did not set up another call

Ivan: what do we do about that? Do we contact Rich?

tzviya: he's set on sticking with role attribute
... other attributes would be much lengthier conversation

mgylling: not urgent to have another call
... Rich has filed issue in ARIA tracker
... next thing is PF needs to sort out in ARIA 1.1
... we should particpating in PF calls

Ivan: what is next step for us?

tzviya: put use cases behind this

all: yep

mgylling: you'll be updating wiki

tzviya: yes

Ivan: one liner as well?

mgylling: that's what I meant
... we'll work jointly on document
... anything more on content and markup?
... so work on MathML and STEM is dormant at the moment
... moving on to metadata

Bill_Kasdorf: last week's call was very helpful
... talked to Madi after the meeting
... made extensive edit to wiki, but didn't work quite right

<gcapiel> Except with regards to a11y on STEM and math

Bill_Kasdorf: let's first just find out what are the urgent issues from pub POV
... asking them what the W3C can do about it is harder
... just asking what is hard gets all sorts of answers

moderator is mucking up the works :)

Bill_Kasdorf: having some issues with wiki

<tzviya> * once it;s on the wiki, you can link

<ivan> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata#SCOPE

Bill_Kasdorf: summary here https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata#SCOPE
... hand-pick knowledgeable folks, and interview them
... let's see what that blitz of interviewing surfaces
... what common threads?
... do that in a couple weeks
... I have list of people to talk to
... I did half last week
... Laura Dawson at Bowker
... Fran Toolan at Firebrand
... co-authors of metadata handbook
... all those are book-oriented people
... didn't reach Graham Bell of Editeur
... ??? and ??? from Crossref, involved with STEM
... they have a sucessful metadata service that the scholarly publishing world depends on
... Diane Kennedy at IDEAlliance
... others for Magazine metadata
... Kevin Hawkins library
... Julie Morris and Len Vlahos of BISG
... BISG has lots of members who are not W3C members
... BISG has metadata committee
... and committees for BISAC and ONIX
... summarized first four interviews in wiki
... these were all book people
... metadata is complex, rich, enormous subject
... have trouble getting their heads around it
... the problem isn't the metadata, it's how to use it
... common theme... it's all about discovery and selling books
... aligns with Madi's point when starting IG
... also need more granular metadata, need at lower than title level
... two issues:
... one, expanded use of role attribute
... put subject metadata at granular level in content

mgylling: are you continuing to do interviews?

Bill_Kasdorf: one other issue is profusion of vocabularies
... use your own controlled vocabulary like LOC, thema
... another case for something vastly simpler, like schema.org
... I'm taking a broad approach
... Madi is talking to people at Pearson

mgylling: thanks bill

Ivan: small remark:
... we have close relationship with key people in schema.org

Bill_Kasdorf: not sure where to put interview summaries in wiki

mgylling: I love data like this from the real world
... first: interviewees need to accept that you're publishing their statements
... second: is it correct that there will be a consolidated report?

<ivan> I would certainly prefer to anonymize the data if we put it on the wiki

Bill_Kasdorf: yes, of course.

mgylling: that's your first delivierable

Bill_Kasdorf: will include some issues that are not in scope of W3C
... not all these issues are W3C issues

mgylling: I don't know if Ivan has concerns about that, I think it gives us a grip on the big picture

Ivan: We can't know what is in scope unless we know what's out of scope

Bill_Kasdorf: ONIX is huge, BISAC is huge, lots of inconsistency in ecosystem
... W3C can't solve that problem
... W3C can help with simple thing on top of rich vocabs

mgylling: if long-term goal is digi pub is first-class citizen of web, then all this needs to work

Bill_Kasdorf: it's all about discovery, and thus it's all about Google

mgylling: we were going to talk about metadata today

<gcapiel> More reason for Schema.org

mgylling: do you want to reschedule dedicated metadata call

Bill_Kasdorf: optimal time is when we complete interviews and write up summaries
... next week is too soon
... good idea, we'll fix a date later

mgylling: a11y
... Topic: a11y

gcapiel: didn't sync up with Suzanne
... did add to wiki
... some of what I think should be the current goals
... I looked at user agent accessiblity guidelines
... worth reviewing that, and proposing edits to take into account digital publishing

<ivan> a11y's one liner on the web: "Review UAAG, EPUB 3 a11y features/guidelines particularly media overlays, CSS Speech, Braille, and SVG"

gcapiel: go through EPUB3 accessibliity document that Matt Garish did
... we haven't talked about media overlays much
... including an audio file with content is part of it
... but there are things like skippability
... which are covered in EPUB3 but not in OWP
... other areas are CSS speech
... where the gaps are with braille support
... some work with SVG and aria roles
... that's also under current goals, working with rich and shepazu

mgylling: that ties in with Tzviya's work on semantic vocab

gcapiel: we're thinging from a11y perspective

<Bill_Kasdorf> re the wiki link to metadata, the updated content is NOT yet appearing there

mgylling: reviewing User agent guidelines, looking at EPUB3 feature set and mapping to OWP... what about resources?

gcapiel: that's the biggest challeng
... for the next six weeks or so I have some time to work on this!
... getting time from other folks might be tight
... can catch up with Suzanne next week
... might not be able to do a meet-up with all folks involved

mgylling: we'll get back to resource question
... more on a11y?

Ivan: any reason WCAG is not mentioned here?
... that's a good question.
... it probably should fit into this
... in terms of priorities, it's more on the Reading Systems
... if I had to pick one, it would be to focus on UA Accessiblity Guidelines, then BISG could help

mgylling: UAAG is in last call, which makes it more urgent

???: ????

mgylling: UUAG review should be prioritized
... topic: Latinreq

dauwhe: want to work on footnotes and drop caps for CSS

mgylling: topic: Annotations

azaroth: some feedback on Annotations doc
... some new issues that should be added
... then we can publish an updated WD when feedback has been incorporated

mgylling: how long to wait?

azaroth: wait until after iAnnotate and W3C conference

<ivan> +1

mgylling: current goal is to collect community feedback, then produce updated version?

azaroth: yep.

mgylling: we'll clean up wiki front page
... maybe a separate table for dormant topics?

Ivan: the front page should reflect current work
... as it's a reference for people coming to the wiki
... we can also say some topics are not currently being worked on
... unsure what to do with security item

mgylling: will talk to sharad

Ivan: who should change table?
... won't be before tomorrow

mgylling: add 2nd table below for dormant/pending/future task forces, but keep on first page

Ivan: i will do that tomorrow

mgylling: any final questions?

Ivan: we must congratulate our editors, as we have our first publications out!

<tzviya> congratulations!

mgylling: and Liza is working on a blog post.

<Luc> c13s

<tzviya> :)

all: bye

<mgylling> dauwhe, thanks for scribing

<tmichel> rrsagent draft minutes

- DRAFT -

Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

17 Mar 2014

Attendees

Contents

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output