Meeting Record

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RDF in XHTML Task Force

Minutes of 06 November 2008

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0003.html

Present

Unknown Manu_Sporny, Unknown Ralph_Swick

Regrets

Unknown Steven

Chair

Unknown Ben_Adida

Scribe

Unknown Manu_Sporny, Unknown msporny, Unknown Ralph_Swick

Previous Meeting

http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-rdfa-minutes.html

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

None.

Topics

Action Item Review
Ongoing maintenance of wiki/documentation
Recent and Upcoming Talks
Potential Improvements to RDFa

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15:47:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-irc ←

15:48:15 <msporny> zakim, this will be rdfa

Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown msporny: zakim, this will be rdfa ←

15:48:15 <Zakim> ok, msporny; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, msporny; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes ←

15:48:25 <msporny> Scribe: Manu_Sporny

Scribe problem: the name 'Manu_Sporny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(Scribe set to Unknown Manu_Sporny)

15:48:33 <msporny> ScribeNick: msporny

(Scribe set to Unknown msporny)

15:48:43 <msporny> Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force

15:48:53 <msporny> Chair: Ben_Adida

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben_Adida' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

15:49:05 <msporny> rrsagent, make log public

rrsagent, make log public ←

15:49:10 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes

rrsagent, draft minutes ←

15:49:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html msporny

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html msporny ←

15:50:00 <msporny> previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-rdfa-minutes.html

15:50:09 <msporny> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0003.html

15:50:13 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes

rrsagent, draft minutes ←

15:50:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html msporny

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html msporny ←

15:50:43 <msporny> Present: Manu_Sporny, Ralph_Swick

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15:51:56 <msporny> Seemingly, this is the only ball I can handle right now, the rest of them are on the floor :)

Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 5 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Ralph_Swick Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Seemingly, this is the only ball I can handle right now, the rest of them are on the floor :) ←

15:51:58 <Ralph> Regrets: Steven

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

15:59:05 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started ←

15:59:12 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph ←

16:00:40 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←

16:00:47 <msporny> zakim, I am ??P5

zakim, I am ??P5 ←

16:00:47 <Zakim> +msporny; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +msporny; got it ←

16:03:35 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ben_Adida ←

16:03:44 <msporny> Present+ Ben_Adida

Present+ Ben_Adida ←

16:05:31 <markbirbeck> just finishing another call...there in a moment. :)

Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 5 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Ralph_Swick Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown markbirbeck: just finishing another call...there in a moment. :) ←

16:08:47 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code? ←

16:08:47 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←

16:09:41 <Zakim> +markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck ←

16:09:48 <msporny> Topic: Action Item Review

1. Action Item Review

16:10:37 <msporny> Present+ Mark_Birbeck

Present+ Mark_Birbeck ←

16:11:29 <markbirbeck> My phone is clicking a lot this side. If others can hear it, let me know, and I'll dial back in.

Unknown markbirbeck: My phone is clicking a lot this side. If others can hear it, let me know, and I'll dial back in. ←

16:11:51 <markbirbeck> thanks

Unknown markbirbeck: thanks ←

16:12:27 <msporny> ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in ACTION-03]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-03] ←

16:12:31 <msporny> -- continues

-- continues ←

16:12:37 <msporny> ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-04] ←

16:12:40 <msporny> -- continues

-- continues ←

16:13:30 <msporny> benadida: Had dinner with Steve from Digg.

Scribe problem: the name 'benadida' does not match any of the 5 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Ralph_Swick Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown benadida: Had dinner with Steve from Digg. ←

16:13:51 <msporny> benadida: They're very interested in coordinating with other news sites to come up with a social news vocabulary.

Unknown benadida: They're very interested in coordinating with other news sites to come up with a social news vocabulary. ←

16:14:48 <msporny> Manu: SIOC was published as W3C member submission.

Unknown Manu_Sporny: SIOC was published as W3C member submission. ←

16:15:00 <msporny> benadida: That would be good to get social news sites to adopt SIOC.

Unknown benadida: That would be good to get social news sites to adopt SIOC. ←

16:15:11 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/Submission/2007/02/ SIOC Member Submission

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://www.w3.org/Submission/2007/02/ SIOC Member Submission ←

16:15:37 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/Submission/2007/SUBM-sioc-spec-20070612/ SOTD for SIOC

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://www.w3.org/Submission/2007/SUBM-sioc-spec-20070612/ SOTD for SIOC ←

16:15:41 <msporny> Ralph: There's a sioc-dev that we could send comments into.

Unknown Ralph_Swick: There's a sioc-dev that we could send comments into. ←

16:15:52 <Ralph> -> http://groups.google.com/group/sioc-dev/topics SIOC-dev list

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://groups.google.com/group/sioc-dev/topics SIOC-dev list ←

16:16:05 <msporny> Ralph: That would be a good place to start the conversation.

Unknown Ralph_Swick: That would be a good place to start the conversation. ←

16:16:17 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to create SVG Tiny draft comment and send to RDFa list for feedback before sending to SVG Tiny workgroup. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

ACTION: Manu to create SVG Tiny draft comment and send to RDFa list for feedback before sending to SVG Tiny workgroup. [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11] ←

16:16:19 <msporny> -- done

-- done ←

16:17:15 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0110.html "[LC] Official SVG Tiny Working Draft Comments from W3C RDF in XHTML Task Force" [Manu 2008-10-10]

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0110.html "[LC] Official SVG Tiny Working Draft Comments from W3C RDF in XHTML Task Force" [Manu 2008-10-09] ←

16:17:25 <Ralph> s/10-10/10-09

16:17:30 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to create two TCs to test fragment identifiers dropped during URI resolution against [base] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

ACTION: Manu to create two TCs to test fragment identifiers dropped during URI resolution against [base] [recorded in ACTION-13]">http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-13] ←

16:18:18 <msporny> -- continues

-- continues ←

16:18:25 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09] ←

16:18:27 <msporny> -- continues

-- continues ←

16:18:35 <msporny> ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11] ←

16:18:40 <msporny> -- continues

-- continues ←

16:18:54 <msporny> ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←

16:19:04 <msporny> -- continues

-- continues ←

16:19:10 <msporny> ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in ACTION-13]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-13] ←

16:19:13 <msporny> -- continues

-- continues ←

16:19:19 <msporny> ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14] ←

16:19:22 <msporny> -- continues

-- continues ←

16:19:31 <msporny> ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] ←

16:19:37 <msporny> -- continues

-- continues ←

16:19:57 <msporny> Manu: Ralph, your action's solution might be SIOC.

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Ralph, your action's solution might be SIOC. ←

16:20:26 <msporny> Ralph: Yes, there might be more, but SIOC might solve a decent bit of the problem.

Unknown Ralph_Swick: Yes, there might be more, but SIOC might solve a decent bit of the problem. ←

16:21:12 <msporny> Topic: Ongoing maintenance of wiki/documentation

2. Ongoing maintenance of wiki/documentation

16:21:47 <msporny> benadida: Right now Mark has some actions to write FOAF examples.

Unknown benadida: Right now Mark has some actions to write FOAF examples. ←

16:21:54 <msporny> benadida: Any other immediate need for documentation?

Unknown benadida: Any other immediate need for documentation? ←

16:22:24 <Ralph> Manu: the examples with digg and drupal ...

Unknown Manu_Sporny: the examples with digg and drupal ... [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph_Swick ] ←

16:22:43 <Ralph> ... we might take some of the postings that have been sent to the mailing list and copy them to the wiki

Unknown Ralph_Swick: ... we might take some of the postings that have been sent to the mailing list and copy them to the wiki ←

16:23:45 <msporny> Manu: Seems that most of the interest has been in social news and CMS systems so far.

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Seems that most of the interest has been in social news and CMS systems so far. ←

16:24:58 <msporny> benadida: There might be some interest with publications.

Unknown benadida: There might be some interest with publications. ←

16:25:07 <msporny> benadida: Perhaps we can edit the wiki down.

Unknown benadida: Perhaps we can edit the wiki down. ←

16:26:46 <benadida> ACTION: Ben to add public-rdfa examples to wiki and think of slightly improved top-level organization

ACTION: Ben to add public-rdfa examples to wiki and think of slightly improved top-level organization ←

16:27:00 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ SemWeb Home Page

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ SemWeb Home Page ←

16:27:46 <msporny> benadida: Could we add "RDFa News and Updates", and "RDFa Wiki" under the RDFa section.

Unknown benadida: Could we add "RDFa News and Updates", and "RDFa Wiki" under the RDFa section. ←

16:27:46 <Ralph> what path do we want folk to follow to get to http://rdfa.info/ ?

Unknown Ralph_Swick: what path do we want folk to follow to get to http://rdfa.info/ ? ←

16:27:56 <msporny> benadida: We should also have the primer in there somewhere.

Unknown benadida: We should also have the primer in there somewhere. ←

16:29:04 <msporny> benadida: Adding those links should be good.

Unknown benadida: Adding those links should be good. ←

16:30:01 <Ralph> Manu: for editing utilities, I cited fuzzbot

Unknown Manu_Sporny: for editing utilities, I cited fuzzbot [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph_Swick ] ←

16:30:16 <Ralph> ... would be nice to have a bigger collection of utilities

Unknown Ralph_Swick: ... would be nice to have a bigger collection of utilities ←

16:30:33 <Ralph> -> http://www.commonsdesign.org/fuzzbot/ Fuzzbot

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/fuzzbot/ Fuzzbot ←

16:30:47 <Ralph> Manu: especially a set of tools that supports a full publishing cycle

Unknown Manu_Sporny: especially a set of tools that supports a full publishing cycle [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph_Swick ] ←

16:30:59 <Ralph> Ben: I use the bookmarklets for this.  What more is needed?

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 5 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Ralph_Swick Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ben: I use the bookmarklets for this. What more is needed? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph_Swick ] ←

16:31:15 <Ralph> Manu: if we believe folks should use the bookmarklets more to do editing, we should publicize this

Unknown Manu_Sporny: if we believe folks should use the bookmarklets more to do editing, we should publicize this [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph_Swick ] ←

16:31:20 <msporny> s/www.commonsdesign.org/rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/g

16:31:33 <Ralph> [apologies, Manu]

Unknown Ralph_Swick: [apologies, Manu] ←

16:32:27 <benadida> ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa" with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet.

ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa" with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. ←

16:32:50 <Ralph> -> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/8736 Fuzzbot 0.8.3

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/8736 Fuzzbot 0.8.3 ←

16:34:01 <Ralph> Manu: we could make a tools request list

Unknown Manu_Sporny: we could make a tools request list [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph_Swick ] ←

16:34:28 <Ralph> ... especially tools that work across all platforms

Unknown Ralph_Swick: ... especially tools that work across all platforms ←

16:35:04 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/rdfa-bookmarklet/ bookmarklets?

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/rdfa-bookmarklet/ bookmarklets? ←

16:35:32 <Ralph> Ben: that's out of date; it cites -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/impl/js/

Unknown Ben: that's out of date; it cites -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/impl/js/ [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph_Swick ] ←

16:35:59 <msporny> benadida: That's the latest.

Unknown benadida: That's the latest. ←

16:36:24 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/ old, out-of-date TF page

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/ old, out-of-date TF page ←

16:36:26 <msporny> Ralph: We've got a number of stale pages around.

Unknown Ralph_Swick: We've got a number of stale pages around. ←

16:36:54 <msporny> benadida: I should fix that page.

Unknown benadida: I should fix that page. ←

16:36:57 <benadida> ACTION: Ben to fix old task force page to point to new TF page.

ACTION: Ben to add forward pointer to old task force page to point to new TF page. ←

16:37:30 <Ralph> s/fix/add forward pointer to

16:37:44 <msporny> benadida: It would be good to clean that.

Unknown benadida: It would be good to clean that. ←

16:38:10 <msporny> benadida: We might want to have a new test case.

Unknown benadida: We might want to have a new test case. ←

16:38:36 <msporny> benadida: Where the empty string is null.

Unknown benadida: Where the empty string is null. ←

16:38:54 <msporny> Manu: Do you have a test case in mind for that?

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Do you have a test case in mind for that? ←

16:39:07 <benadida> <a href="foo.html"><span about="" property="dc:creator">Ben</span></a>

Unknown benadida: <a href="foo.html"><span about="" property="dc:creator">Ben</span></a> ←

16:39:13 <msporny> benadida: It's an issue in Javascript, or any language where the empty string could be construed as NULL.

Unknown benadida: It's an issue in Javascript, or any language where the empty string could be construed as NULL. ←

16:39:36 <Ralph> [Ben is noting a coding style trap in javascript]

Unknown Ralph_Swick: [Ben is noting a coding style trap in javascript] ←

16:39:36 <msporny> benadida: you would expect the previous example to set the creator of the current page.

Unknown benadida: you would expect the previous example to set the creator of the current page. ←

16:40:22 <msporny> benadida: It was only in the case of emtpy @about where the chaining didn't happen correctly.

Unknown benadida: It was only in the case of emtpy @about where the chaining didn't happen correctly. ←

16:40:30 <benadida> ACTION: Manu to add test case for empty @about inside a chain

ACTION: Manu to add test case for empty @about inside a chain ←

16:40:45 <Ralph> i.e. an empty attribute value is not the same as an absent attribute

Unknown Ralph_Swick: i.e. an empty attribute value is not the same as an absent attribute ←

16:40:52 <msporny> Topic: Recent and Upcoming Talks

3. Recent and Upcoming Talks

16:41:08 <Ralph> Manu: I'm speaking at Web Directions North in January

Unknown Manu_Sporny: I'm speaking at Web Directions North in January [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph_Swick ] ←

16:41:18 <Ralph> ... giving a 4-hour workshop on RDFa

Unknown Ralph_Swick: ... giving a 4-hour workshop on RDFa ←

16:41:35 <Steeeven> I spoke at the TPAC

Scribe problem: the name 'Steeeven' does not match any of the 5 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Ralph_Swick Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steeeven: I spoke at the TPAC ←

16:41:39 <Steeeven> last talk of the dayy

Unknown Steeeven: last talk of the dayy ←

16:41:39 <Ralph> -> http://north.webdirections.org/ web directions north

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://north.webdirections.org/ web directions north ←

16:42:41 <markbirbeck> http://www.idealliance.org/xml2008/schedule-details.asp#gov8

Unknown markbirbeck: http://www.idealliance.org/xml2008/schedule-details.asp#gov8 ←

16:42:45 <msporny> markbirbeck: I submitted a talk on RDFa, I'm on a panel on Semantic Web and Goverment

Unknown markbirbeck: I submitted a talk on RDFa, I'm on a panel on Semantic Web and Goverment ←

16:42:49 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/Talks/10-22-steven-website/ "Why you should have a Web Site" [Steven, W3C Technical Plenary talk 2008-10-22]

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://www.w3.org/2008/Talks/10-22-steven-website/ "Why you should have a Web Site" [Steven, W3C Technical Plenary talk 2008-10-22] ←

16:43:20 <msporny> markbirbeck: It's normally called XML 2007, but now it's XML in Practice.

Unknown markbirbeck: It's normally called XML 2007, but now it's XML in Practice. ←

16:43:27 <msporny> markbirbeck: I did an RDFa talk there last year.

Unknown markbirbeck: I did an RDFa talk there last year. ←

16:44:13 <msporny> benadida: I've been invited to talk at the Interlab Conference at a Semantic Web Panel

Unknown benadida: I've been invited to talk at the Interlab Conference at a Semantic Web Panel ←

16:44:18 <markbirbeck> I should say that last year I did a *lightning* talk on RDFa...so this is a step up. :)

Unknown markbirbeck: I should say that last year I did a *lightning* talk on RDFa...so this is a step up. :) ←

16:44:36 <msporny> benadida: it's a panel on how the semantic web is getting real.

Unknown benadida: it's a panel on how the semantic web is getting real. ←

16:44:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph ←

16:45:04 <msporny> benadida: Important that if you have slides you're willing to share. Under Creative Commons for example.

Unknown benadida: Important that if you have slides you're willing to share. Under Creative Commons for example. ←

16:45:26 <msporny> benadida: If you're looking for the longer presentations, they're on my website.

Unknown benadida: If you're looking for the longer presentations, they're on my website. ←

16:45:45 <markbirbeck> http://www.online-information.co.uk/online08/conference_presentation_2008.html?presentation_id=357

Unknown markbirbeck: http://www.online-information.co.uk/online08/conference_presentation_2008.html?presentation_id=357 ←

16:46:11 <msporny> markbirbeck: I've been asked to chair a session.

Unknown markbirbeck: I've been asked to chair a session. ←

16:46:39 <msporny> markbirbeck: I've been asked to chair a panel - it's good for RDFa because they think it'll be a major part of the discussion.

Unknown markbirbeck: I've been asked to chair a panel - it's good for RDFa because they think it'll be a major part of the discussion. ←

16:49:08 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/Talks/1026-ISCW-RDFa/ "RDFa - Bridging the Web of Documents and the Web of Data" [ISWC tutorial by Michael, Ivan, Ben]

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://www.w3.org/2008/Talks/1026-ISCW-RDFa/ "RDFa - Bridging the Web of Documents and the Web of Data" [ISWC tutorial by Michael, Ivan, Ben] ←

16:49:55 <msporny> Topic: Potential Improvements to RDFa

4. Potential Improvements to RDFa

16:50:08 <msporny> benadida: I was speaking primarily to the @prefix attribute.

Unknown benadida: I was speaking primarily to the @prefix attribute. ←

16:50:30 <benadida> --> http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFainHTML4

Unknown benadida: --> http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFainHTML4 ←

16:50:35 <msporny> benadida: Specifically, what Shane has written on the Wiki.

Unknown benadida: Specifically, what Shane has written on the Wiki. ←

16:51:20 <Ralph> scribenick: ralph

(Scribe set to Unknown Ralph_Swick)

16:51:26 <msporny> Manu: prefix="ns=http://blah.com/"

Unknown Manu_Sporny: prefix="ns=http://blah.com/" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ] ←

16:51:28 <Ralph> Manu: we've talked about several cases

Unknown Manu_Sporny: we've talked about several possibilities ←

16:51:35 <Ralph> s/cases/possibilities

16:51:42 <Ralph> ... a space-separated list of items

... a space-separated list of items ←

16:51:47 <msporny> Manu: prefix="=http://example.org/vocab"

Unknown Manu_Sporny: prefix="=http://example.org/vocab" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ] ←

16:51:48 <Ralph> ... a default namespace

... a default namespace ←

16:51:55 <msporny> Manu: prefix="http://example.org/vocab"

Unknown Manu_Sporny: prefix="http://example.org/vocab" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ] ←

16:52:01 <Ralph> ... the case of eliding the '='

... the case of eliding the '=' ←

16:52:11 <msporny> Manu: prefix="ex=http://example.org/vocab"

Unknown Manu_Sporny: prefix="ex=http://example.org/vocab" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ] ←

16:52:18 <Ralph> ... last conversation with Shane the idea was to have @prefix support all of these cases

... last conversation with Shane the idea was to have @prefix support all of these cases ←

16:52:51 <Ralph> ... @prefix="a=b" matches the current xmlns case

... @prefix="a=b" matches the current xmlns case ←

16:52:53 <msporny> Manu: prefix="http://myvocab.org/vocab"

Unknown Manu_Sporny: prefix="http://myvocab.org/vocab" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ] ←

16:53:03 <Ralph> ... question of how to denote things we want the parser to fetch

... question of how to denote things we want the parser to fetch ←

16:53:30 <Ralph> ... objective is to have the parser load vocabulary-specific triples [from a URI]

... objective is to have the parser load vocabulary-specific triples [from a URI] ←

16:53:38 <Ralph> ... similar to @profile

... similar to @profile ←

16:53:56 <Ralph> ... we were unsure whether GRDDL would be OK with reusing @profile elsewhere

... we were unsure whether GRDDL would be OK with reusing @profile elsewhere ←

16:54:10 <Ralph> Ben: GRDDL doesn't own @profile

Unknown Ben: GRDDL doesn't own @profile ←

16:54:34 <Ralph> ... the 3 cases Manu cites are noted in http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFainHTML4

... the 3 cases Manu cites are noted in http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFainHTML4 ←

16:54:40 <benadida> third case prefix="=http://creativecommons.org/ns#"

Unknown benadida: third case prefix="=http://creativecommons.org/ns#" ←

16:54:58 <Ralph> Ben: I'm not wild about that last syntax

Unknown Ben: I'm not wild about that last syntax ←

16:55:15 <Ralph> ... ="= just looks like mal-formed syntax to me

... ="= just looks like mal-formed syntax to me ←

16:55:32 <Ralph> Mark: and using this functionality for loading special vocabularies feels wrong to me

Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' does not match any of the 5 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Ralph_Swick Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Mark: and using this functionality for loading special vocabularies feels wrong to me ←

16:55:47 <Ralph> ... I don't think we should overload @prefix; @profile is for this purpose

... I don't think we should overload @prefix; @profile is for this purpose ←

16:56:16 <Ralph> ... I'm also not wild about the default namespace syntax

... I'm also not wild about the default namespace syntax ←

16:56:22 <Ralph> ... but I'm not sure we need a default namespace

... but I'm not sure we need a default namespace ←

16:56:43 <Ralph> ... I've been working on the token idea and the more I do the more it has evolved

... I've been working on the token idea and the more I do the more it has evolved ←

16:57:10 <Ralph> ... the idea of having a vocabulary with a list of terms is not suited to all situations; sometimes you just want a list of tokens

... the idea of having a vocabulary with a list of terms is not suited to all situations; sometimes you just want a list of tokens ←

16:57:23 <Ralph> ... I'm no longer convinced we should encourage unprefixed CURIEs

... I'm no longer convinced we should encourage unprefixed CURIEs ←

16:57:47 <Ralph> Ben: so 'foo' and 'bar' might map to terms from different vocabularies, with completely different URIs?

Unknown Ben: so 'foo' and 'bar' might map to terms from different vocabularies, with completely different URIs? ←

16:57:48 <Ralph> Mark: yes

Unknown Mark: yes ←

16:58:35 <Ralph> ... this use of [unprefixed] tokens is the big innovation in microformats

... this use of [unprefixed] tokens is the big innovation in microformats ←

16:58:49 <Ralph> ... I think we should embrace this and provide the underpinning that makes it possible

... I think we should embrace this and provide the underpinning that makes it possible ←

16:59:06 <Ralph> ... N3 allows a "predicate" of 'a' which maps to rdf:type

... N3 allows a "predicate" of 'a' which maps to rdf:type ←

16:59:43 <Ralph> Ralph: but N3 did not do this in an extensible way; 'a' is a hard-wired keyword

Unknown Ralph_Swick: but N3 did not do this in an extensible way; 'a' is a hard-wired keyword ←

16:59:50 <Ralph> Mark: yes, but we can fit that into a new mindset

Unknown Mark: yes, but we can fit that into a new mindset ←

17:00:10 <Ralph> ... we could say that 'a' is a CURIE and we provide a mapping to its URI

... we could say that 'a' is a CURIE and we provide a mapping to its URI ←

17:00:26 <Ralph> ... and we can also allow 'license' to map to a different URI

... and we can also allow 'license' to map to a different URI ←

17:00:33 <Ralph> ... where 'a' and 'license' co-exist nicely

... where 'a' and 'license' co-exist nicely ←

17:00:58 <Ralph> ... if we keep @prefix simple we'll avoid lots of arguments

... if we keep @prefix simple we'll avoid lots of arguments ←

17:01:11 <Ralph> Ben: I believe we agree that @prefix plays the same role as @xmlns

Unknown Ben: I believe we agree that @prefix plays the same role as @xmlns ←

created using i/Ralph: I spoke/scribenick: msporny

(Scribe set to Unknown msporny)

17:02:31 <msporny> Ralph: I spoke with Shane a bit ago and it's possible that @prefix does not directly map to xmlns.

Unknown Ralph_Swick: I spoke with Shane a while ago and it's possible that @prefix does not directly map to xmlns. ←

17:02:44 <msporny> Ralph: Shane thought that there might be some issues with that.

Unknown Ralph_Swick: Shane thought that there might be some issues with that. ←

17:02:57 <msporny> benadida: The only thing where it might be an issue is declaring something in HEAD

Unknown benadida: The only thing where it might be an issue is declaring something in HEAD ←

17:03:40 <Ralph> s/a bit/a while

17:04:27 <msporny> benadida: We want to make markup simpler - so when we compare Microformats to RDFa, people don't see that RDFa is very complicated.

Unknown benadida: We want to make markup simpler - so when we compare Microformats to RDFa, people don't see that RDFa is very complicated. ←

17:04:40 <Ralph> i/Ralph: I spoke/scribenick: msporny

17:04:47 <msporny> benadida: There are several ways you can do that - reserved words, token-based approach.

Unknown benadida: There are several ways you can do that - reserved words, token-based approach. ←

17:04:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph ←

17:05:14 <msporny> benadida: I think we're going to have to pick one.

Unknown benadida: I think we're going to have to pick one. ←

17:05:37 <msporny> benadida: if we pick more than one, it might make things more difficult.

Unknown benadida: if we pick more than one, it might make things more difficult. ←

17:06:18 <Ralph> [I very much like the idea that the documents that define lists of tokens use RDFa to define those lists]

Unknown Ralph_Swick: [I very much like the idea that the documents that define lists of tokens use RDFa to define those lists] ←

17:06:26 <msporny> markbirbeck: I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Unknown markbirbeck: I don't think they're mutually exclusive. ←

17:06:34 <msporny> benadida: We need to continue this discussion.

Unknown benadida: We need to continue this discussion. ←

17:06:35 <Steeeven> +1 to ralph

Unknown Steeeven: +1 to ralph ←

17:07:49 <msporny> benadida: We should focus on documentation and simplified RDFa using @prefix/@profile.

Unknown benadida: We should focus on documentation and simplified RDFa using @prefix/@profile. ←

17:08:16 <Ralph> Ben: we should prototype in our implementations before proposing any formal change

Unknown Ben: we should prototype in our implementations before proposing any formal change [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph_Swick ] ←

17:09:05 <Ralph> Mark: my solution only requires RDFa to add @profile and most of the work is pushed into the CURIE spec

Unknown Mark: my solution only requires RDFa to add @profile and most of the work is pushed into the CURIE spec [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph_Swick ] ←

17:09:42 <Ralph> ... the token language in the RDFa spec intentionally leaves room for this

Unknown Ralph_Swick: ... the token language in the RDFa spec intentionally leaves room for this ←

17:10:07 <Ralph> Ben: I wouldn't want to ask RDFa parsers to have to look to CURIE spec for lots of new rules

Unknown Ben: I wouldn't want to ask RDFa parsers to have to look to CURIE spec for lots of new rules [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph_Swick ] ←

17:10:42 <Ralph> ... but I like the look of Mark's syntax

Unknown Ralph_Swick: ... but I like the look of Mark's syntax ←

17:11:10 <Ralph> ... I especially like not having to load everything into @prefix

Unknown Ralph_Swick: ... I especially like not having to load everything into @prefix ←

17:15:51 <Ralph> next meeting: 20 November

Unknown Ralph_Swick: next meeting: 20 November ←

17:16:17 <Zakim> -Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph ←

17:16:18 <Zakim> -msporny

Zakim IRC Bot: -msporny ←

17:16:19 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck ←

17:16:20 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended ←

17:16:21 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, msporny, Ben_Adida, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ralph, msporny, Ben_Adida, markbirbeck ←

17:16:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph ←

17:16:49 <Ralph> zakim, bye

Unknown Ralph_Swick: zakim, bye ←

17:16:55 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye

Unknown Ralph_Swick: rrsagent, bye ←

17:16:55 <RRSAgent> I see 14 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 14 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-actions.rdf : ←

17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03] [1]

ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in ACTION-03]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-03] [1] ←

17:16:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-irc#T16-12-27

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] [2]

ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-04] [2] ←

17:16:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-irc#T16-12-37

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to create SVG Tiny draft comment and send to RDFa list for feedback before sending to SVG Tiny workgroup. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [3]

17:16:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-irc#T16-16-17

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to create two TCs to test fragment identifiers dropped during URI resolution against [base] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#action13] [4]

ACTION: Manu to create two TCs to test fragment identifiers dropped during URI resolution against [base] [recorded in ACTION-13]">http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-13] [4] ←

17:16:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-irc#T16-17-30

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [5]

ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09] [5] ←

17:16:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-irc#T16-18-25

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [6]

ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11] [6] ←

17:16:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-irc#T16-18-35

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [7]

ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] [7] ←

17:16:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-irc#T16-18-54

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13] [8]

ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in ACTION-13]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-13] [8] ←

17:16:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-irc#T16-19-10

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [9]

ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14] [9] ←

17:16:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-irc#T16-19-19

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15] [10]

ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] [10] ←

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to add public-rdfa examples to wiki and think of slightly improved top-level organization [11]

ACTION: Ben to add public-rdfa examples to wiki and think of slightly improved top-level organization [11] ←

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa" with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [12]

ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa" with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [12] ←

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to fix old task force page to point to new TF page. [13]

ACTION: Ben to fix old task force page to point to new TF page. [13] ←

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17:16:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to add test case for empty @about inside a chain [14]

ACTION: Manu to add test case for empty @about inside a chain [14] ←

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