Meeting Record

There are some format problems with the chatlog. Please correct them and reload this page. They are labeled on this page in a red box, like this message.

It may be helpful to

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Presenter' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Presenter: Ben Adida, Creative Commons [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'tlr' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'ivan' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ishida' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'shawn' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Karen' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Alan-home' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carine' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'em' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see MIT531, Keio (muted), Shawn (muted), Steven (muted), Dom (muted), Chibao (muted), Ivan, Ian, Bert, Alan (muted), Thomas (muted), Maxf (muted), Cedric (muted), ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Kazuyuki' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ivan' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'klaus' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Klaus' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'maxf' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'MarkBirbeck' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'Danny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see MIT531, Keio (muted), Shawn (muted), Steven (muted), Dom (muted), Chibao (muted), Ivan, Ian, Bert, Alan (muted), Thomas (muted), Maxf (muted), Cedric (muted), ←

Unknown ivan: ralph presenting Ben, representing creative commons, rdf/a task force and also mit ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Maxf' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hal' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hal: we decided very early to use rdf, and rdf/a [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see MIT531, Keio (muted), Shawn (muted), Steven (muted), Dom (muted), Chibao (muted), Ivan, Ian, Bert, Alan (muted), Thomas (muted), Cedric (muted), DanC, Emiller, ←

Scribe problem: the name 'ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ralph: i also invited mark burbeck from the rdf/a work [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see maxf, Danny, em, IanJ, DanC, klaus, fsasaki, cedric, chibao, Kazuyuki, shawn, Steven, Bert, Alan-home, caribou, ivan, dom, mimasa, tlr, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS, SusanL ←

Scribe problem: the name 'jose' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'fsasaki' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'ben' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ben: these slides are used for people who are not necessarily familiar with rdf [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'SusanL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ben: use case of cc is pretty much like foaf, for example [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'DanC' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'benadida' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ben: there is a 'publish' icon on the right [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'karl' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'bookmarklets' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ben: bookmarklet is tested in IE6, Safari, Mozilla [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Unknown Ben: *drag* the link to your booksmark bar [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Unknown ben: if you go to my blog link, and run the CC bookmarklet and look at the left licence page [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ben: cc actually defined new terms, but would prefer to [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'dan' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown dan: rel=license is in html, is it rdf/a? it does not use separate namespace [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ben: rdf/a uses default namespaces [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'BenA' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown BenA: HTML WG added rel="license" to the HTML standard, and added an RDF property, xhtml:license, to the HTML standards [ Scribe Assist by Unknown DanC ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown steven: rdf/a is designed to be upwad compatible with existing xhtml stuff [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... easy learning curve, with explicit explanation on how to relate to rdf ←

Unknown DanC: (I think this "it just works" story is being oversold. see curies in href) ←

Unknown ben: one of the ideas is that microformat folks sayd rel=license is the way to go [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown em: UniProt -> UniProt (Universal Protein Resource) is the world's most comprehensive catalog of information on proteins. ←

Unknown DanC: yes, but href="[cc:license]" isn't going to work in old browsers. I know you didn't say it's forward as well as backward compatible, but by not telling the bad news, you're overselling, Steven. ←

Scribe problem: the name 'plh' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown plh: weird, mozcc (https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/363/) doesn't recognize the licensing terms in http://benlog.com/ ←

Unknown Ben: use the RDF/A Highlight bookmarklet on -> http://ben.adida.net/ my home page [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Unknown ben: if you go to my home page and my second tool, it creates a bunch of red blogs showing rdf triples [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: .... the urls can be used to be sent to, say, the foaf vocabulary ←

Unknown DanC: yes, but as I wrote in mail to xhtml-tf, existing browsers _don't_ expand the Curie. They just fail silently. So you're overselling. ←

Unknown ben: i select a sentence, and with another tool that I have not published [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown RalphS: ... clicks on another (not yet distributed) Wordpress bookmarklet ... ←

Unknown RalphS: ... "WordPress-BlogThis!" bookmarklet takes him to his Wordpress admin page having extracted the metadata from the highlighted paragraph ←

Unknown dom: [again, that looks like straight XHTML, not RDF/A; without grounding in a real URI space, it's hard to see how this is real RDF/A] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: DanC, you wanted to ask about "right inside the HTML" and IPTC ←

Scribe problem: the name 'danc' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown danc: customers want to put stuff into xhtml, iptc does not right? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ben: true. newsml are drivers for requirements, but not on that [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown SusanL: DanC, is it worth mentioning W3C home page folded in DC with "This dialect (more formally, metadata profile as specified in section 6.12 Link types of the HTML 4.0 specification) should be declared explicitly ala <head profile="http://www.w3.org/2000/08/w3c-synd/#">." I have not been following best practices for profiles. ←

Unknown Danny: by "publisher" you mean only the organization running the server, right? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Unknown DanC: (I hope h2 isn't being used for the main heading on the page ;-) ←

Unknown Ben: want to be able to identify the metadata that applies to just one selected chunk of a blog post [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Unknown DanC: (the self-containment requirement seems complex. I wonder how to state it exactly.) ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Shawn' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ben: for sw convert the data reuse and self-containment are more to be discussed [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'danny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown danny: sw world people may refer to data reuse differently than you [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ben: what i am saying if I change html, then i change the metadata [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown danny: you should really focus on that [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Dean' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ivan: ... i wonder whether that sort of precise data reuse does not collapse into self containment ←

Unknown ben: i have examples where they do not [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown Ben: I will show some example of DRY that are not self-containment [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'timbl_' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown timbl_: "Data reuse" for me means "I put this data here for my blog but someone just used it to analyse the spread of british culture in the notheast of the USA" ←

Unknown DanC: q+ to note we've gone beyond current HTML standards at this point (i.e. validator will give a thumbs-down) ←

Unknown ralph: i would to clarify cc:license means [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: DanC, you wanted to note we've gone beyond current HTML standards at this point (i.e. validator will give a thumbs-down) ←

Scribe problem: the name 'dans' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown dans: at this point you move to new xhtml standard [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... in the demo i showed how we could implement this with xhml1.1 ←

Unknown danc: people used license without knowing that they were using rdf.... [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ben: rel=license has only been recently been defined by html [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown danc: so people could use that without knowing it was licence [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown steven: there were predefined in the xhml text [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown danc: people might have used this with their own meaning [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown timbl_: q+ to ask whether rel="xxx" without a colon in the xxx is supposed to generate an RDF triple, but asking someone else to ask the question as it is noisy here ←

Unknown ben: dan, i agree we are giving meaning to something that did not have a meeting before [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ralph: there is namespace collision here, it does not separate namespaces historically [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown steven: we are just reflecting common practice [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... license is used a great deal for rel, the common practice is the value we recommend ←

Unknown ben: i take your point dan, is there any differene with microformats? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown DanC: (absolutely, microformats plays fast-and-loose in exactly the same way, when they don't use head/@profile ) ←

Unknown danny: the rel=license constitutes a meaning of the triple [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown hal: it does not change the copyright license [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown danny: yes, but it might be confused with my driving licence [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... i intuitively feel it more comfortable to use your namespace ←

Unknown timbl_: You have to asses the damage which will actually be done -- and decide. Maybe very little use uf rel ←

Zakim IRC Bot: timbl_, you wanted to ask whether rel="xxx" without a colon in the xxx is supposed to generate an RDF triple, but asking someone else to ask the question as it is noisy here ←

Scribe problem: the name 'sandro' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown sandro: (DanC, "fast-and-loose" is the same as "namespace squating", or more generally "unauthorized-but-seemingly-harmless deviation from a standard", yes?) ←

Scribe problem: the name 'timbl' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown timbl: rel="xxx" without a colon does it generate a triple [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown timbl: you are saying when somebody used no-follow, will generate a triple, you say it won't make any sense [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown SusanL: q+ to say W3C home page profile includes Dublin Core (and it uses rights for license) ←

Unknown ben: i would love to have an answer later: what is the fear of the rdf triples [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown DanC: (the "fear" is formalizing something without the author's knowledge and consent) ←

Unknown RalphS: [slide 18: additional Creative Commons properties under consideration] ←

Unknown karl: (DanC, nothing forbids you to have class="dc:title" in XHTML 1.0 if it's your question) ←

Unknown Ben: oops; I may be misusing cc:citeURL in this example [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... this is the uri you should cite if you give me attribution ←

Zakim IRC Bot: I see Keio, Dom, Chibao, Alan, Thomas, Maxf, Cedric, Kazuyuki, Klaus, Jose, Felix, Karl, Sandro muted ←

Unknown dom: [note that ":" is NOT prohibited in XHTML 1; at least HTML 4.01 defines the type of LinkTypes (which rel uses) as CDATA] ←

Unknown timbl_: Yes, ben -- you could argue that any link with any rel has an RDF semantics of that triple. I am not too afeared of that basically. ←

Unknown Ben: WordPress bookmarklet can follow ccc:citeURL to know whom to attribute [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Unknown dom: [re class, it's only that : are a pain to use in CSS due to escaping] ←

Unknown RalphS: [slide 21: changing the subject of the RDF triples with 'about='] ←

Unknown ivan: #21: there is an about and that changes the subject of the triple ←

Unknown DanC: (is there an address for an RDF/A spec that is maintained along with the design discussions?) ←

Unknown ivan: ... those triples generated are basically a bunch of blank nodes ←

Unknown RalphS: agenda+ where is most current RDF/A spec and is it maintained along with design discussions? ←

Unknown timbl_: re Slide 24 -- Security issue: Metadata says something different from what the UI says. ←

Unknown ben: if your reader knows about the calendar vocabulary, it connects to it, if not it is just xhtml rendered as xhtml [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown em: .me notes folks around here talk about 'partial understanding' similar to what Ben is calling 'graceful degradation' ←

Unknown em: q+ to note folks around here talk about 'partial understanding' similar to what Ben is calling 'elegant degradation' ←

Unknown ivan: ... the proposal is in the context of the new sw deployment working group to have it xhtml 1.1. ←

Unknown dom: [I have to go to another call; find this quote from Mozilla interesting] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: DanC, you wanted to ask what of href="[iptc:001]" and degradation ←

Unknown danc: everything you present great, what you do not present makes me afraid... curie [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ben: we have worked on an rdf/a spec for xhtml2 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ralph: any new feature in the langauge is such that it will not degrate properly. Curie is one [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: an author can choose not to use CURIEs in href [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Unknown ben: curie probably will not make it into xhtml 1.1 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... this is an issue where different customer require different things ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Bert' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Bert: Hmm, &-entities exist and are not used, XML Base exists and is not used, even <base> in HTML is rare, why would CURIEs fare any better? ←

Unknown ivan: ... but dan is right that it will not degrade into xhtml1.1 properly ←

Zakim IRC Bot: em, you wanted to note folks around here talk about 'partial understanding' similar to what Ben is calling 'elegant degradation' ←

Unknown DanC: ("elegant degradation" is pretty close to "graceful degradation", which is a long-standing term.) ←

Scribe problem: the name 'ericM' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ericM: application can glean bits and pieces of data and make something out of it, even if they do not undersand everything. That is very important [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ben: we are combining the c'ickable web and the semantic web together [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown steven: go back to dan's earlier comment on a different version of xhtml [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: 1. use of default xhtml namespace in "rel=??:license" [from Danny] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: 2. W3C home page profile (which includes Dublin Core, and http://www.w3.org/Overview-about.rdf which uses "rights" for "license") [from SusanL] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: 3. where is most current RDF/A spec and is it maintained along with design discussions? [from RalphS] ←

Unknown ivan: ... on the other hand, there is a rule in html saying that if you find a property you do not understand ignore it ←

Unknown danc: i do not remember that this way [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown karl: (/usr/local/bin/apachectl graceful - how to reboot "gracefully") ←

1. W3C home page profile (which includes Dublin Core, and http://www.w3.org/Overview-about.rdf which uses "rights" for "license")

Scribe problem: the name 'susanl' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown susanl: the w3c homepage refers to a profile which defines the meta link type, we use html extension rules to use that [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... also, we use 'rights' has that been superceded by license? ←

Unknown Steven: DanC, If a user agent encounters an attribute it does not recognize, it must ignore the entire attribute specification (i.e., the attribute and its value). ←

Unknown ben: the second question, i do not think it would be true, i think DC has defined a 'license' [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'ericm' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ericm: yes they have defined a a licence as a refinement of 'rights' [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown em: what is not clear from DCMI is how this relates to cc:license :( ←

Scribe problem: the name 'ian' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ian: for susan, rdf/a is not a recommendation yet, so there is no replacement of the current extension mechanism [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

2. where is most current RDF/A spec and is it maintained along with design discussions?

Unknown ralph: how is the spec maintained? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ben: there is a normative rdf/a work which will be integrated into the next draft of xhtml2 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... it is not clear how the xhtml1.1 modularization will go, that is a recent development ←

Unknown DanC: Steven, so that changed from HTML 2/3.2/4 to XHTML 1.1. Interesting. It raises another old thread, connection of HTML standards work with validator.w3.org ←

Unknown ivan: ... the curie is a separate document, meant to be part of xhtml2 ←

Unknown karl: Steven, only in XHTML 1.0 because in HTML 4.01 - http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/appendix/notes.html#didx-error "This specification does not define how conforming user agents handle general error conditions, including how user agents behave when they encounter elements, attributes, attribute values, or entities not specified in this document." ←

Unknown danny: I hoped the rdf/a grdddl harmony is the last item:-) [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown Steven: HTML4 says "However, to facilitate experimentation and interoperability between implementations of various versions of HTML, we recommend the following behavior: ←

Unknown Steven: If a user agent encounters an element it does not recognize, it should try to render the element's content. ←

Unknown Steven: If a user agent encounters an attribute it does not recognize, it should ignore the entire attribute specification (i.e., the attribute and its value)." ←

Unknown ivan: ... i would be happy to reserve 5-10 minutes on the rdfa/grddl issue ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Thomas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ben: from the cc point of view grddl is a great technology in particular with xml datasets [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown karl: and just above the HTML 4.01 section "The following notes are informative, not normative. Despite the appearance of words such as "must" and "should", all requirements in this section appear elsewhere in the specification." ←

Unknown ivan: ... grddl is a wonderful tool for this: add your metadata wherever you want and grddl will take care of it ←

Unknown danny: w3c seems to move that rdf/a and grddl will happen both of them, the only concern I have is to have the energy to work on both of them [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown danny: the concern i have to make sure we do not avoid the potentially harder task of bringing everybody around the same task [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ben: from my point of view having both is compatible [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown Ben: RDF/A is all about making HTML a first-class serialization for RDF [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Unknown DanC: q+ to note class="dtstart" vs rel="cal:dtstart" is the way this issue show up to users. I have a hard time picking the winner there, though I can sympathize with user's requests to 'pick one' ←

Unknown ivan: .. when people use microformats... the grddl way works for them ←

Unknown DanC: q+ to ask about a GRDDL transformation connected to the XHTML 1 namespace ←

Unknown plh: (on a side Note, the Curie note status should be updated to indicate that this is not a W3C Note) ←

Unknown ralph: we already hear people reflecting the confusion about different sw things, microformats offer a simple ways [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ralph: grddl vs. rdf/a I see a common case for them [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... grdddl allows for schema developers to define any language with metadata and grddl gives a way to extract the data ←

Unknown ivan: ... the grddl tool is inherently part of the processing pipeline ahead of everything else ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Felix' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ivan: ... for rdf/a the same thing, they should be use grddl to extract the triples and then pass it on ←

Unknown ivan: ... but some other tools may have rdf/a hardwired in the tools ←

Scribe problem: the name 'TimBL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown steven: support what ralph is saying, they are a pair going hand in hand [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: DanC, you wanted to note class="dtstart" vs rel="cal:dtstart" is the way this issue show up to users. I have a hard time picking the winner there, though I can sympathize with ←

Zakim IRC Bot: ... user's requests to 'pick one' and to ask about a GRDDL transformation connected to the XHTML 1 namespace ←

Unknown danc: i subscribe to this, but a guy who wants to put calendar into my page, i have a hard time telling them which one to choose [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown danny: the xml example is a good one, there grddl is the only solution [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... microformats are a more complicated case, you can use either approach ←

Unknown ericm: ralph's point about the relationship is the one makes the most sense. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... offering people different solutions, that might become an issue ←

Unknown ivan: ... ben, when you talk to people about this, encourage you to ask them to send comments to the list ←

Unknown DanC: (er... I haven't heard the ozzie clipboard folks show any interest in RDF, unfortunately) ←

Unknown ben: I would get back to the self-containenment requirement; this is one that grddl does not provide [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... it is much harder in grddl to point back to the origin of a triple ←

Unknown ben: the code that works on the page has to know about all the microformats itself [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... that browsers will provide the native abilities to extract the rdf data just like the dom is created? ←

Unknown ivan: ... the distinction is relevant for the longer evolution of the browser ←

Unknown em: .me almost heard Ben describe RDF/A as a framework to support microformats ←

Unknown Ralph: browsers may also use the triples themselves; e.g. to popup licenses [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Re' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown DanC: q+ to agree with Ben that RDF/A is closer to a clipboard solution than microformats, but it involves getting all those folks learning hCard and hCalendar to learn to write property="cal:dtstart" where they're now leaning class="dtstart" ←

Zakim IRC Bot: DanC, you wanted to agree with Ben that RDF/A is closer to a clipboard solution than microformats, but it involves getting all those folks learning hCard and hCalendar to learn to ←

Zakim IRC Bot: ... write property="cal:dtstart" where they're now leaning class="dtstart" ←

Unknown danc: the bootstrapping is happing now, like the event pages, [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown Danny: q+ to mention author/reader model that Tim talks about. Seems like the tension here is author/app developer ←

Unknown ivan: ... there is a whole place with people producing and consuming things ←

Unknown ivan: ... it uses property= and not class= and the microformat are used to class= ←

Unknown ralph: back to the namespace problem [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: Danny, you wanted to mention author/reader model that Tim talks about. Seems like the tension here is author/app developer and to ask how RDF/A aware browsers would consumer GRDDL ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Ian' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Alan' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Keio' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown danny: tim has given a talk on author /reader tension [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ivan ] ←

Unknown ivan: ... loose coupling you are looking for plays in the author/developers pair ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Karl' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Cedric' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'set minutes team', ivan. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Ralph, Karl, Carine, Shawn, Marisol, Mcf, fumi, mimasa, Klaus, Dom, Maxf, Steven, Chibao, Dave, Karen, Caroline, SusanL, Ian, Ht, Hugo, ←

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Philipp, Cedric, Kazuyuki, Emiller, Ivan, Bert, Alan, Ishida, Felix, Philippe, Thomas, koalie, Judy, Jose, Ben_Adida, Danny, Hal_Abelson, DanC, Dean, Yves, TimBL, Sandro ←

Unknown plh: at some point, I'd like to understand how this works has more chance to succeed, than the RSS 1.0 format. ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Jose' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: This conference is scheduled to end in 10 minutes; all ports must be freed ←

Zakim IRC Bot: This conference is scheduled to end in 5 minutes; all ports must be freed ←

Scribe problem: the name 'MIT531' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Emiller' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Sandro' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Chibao' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: This conference is scheduled to end in 2 minutes; all ports must be freed ←

Zakim IRC Bot: This conference is scheduled to end in 1 minute; all ports must be freed ←

Zakim IRC Bot: This conference is scheduled to end now; all ports must be freed immediately ←

Zakim IRC Bot: The time reserved for this conference has been exceeded. 9 ports must be freed ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see sandro, plh, dino, jose, em, IanJ, DanC, klaus, Steven, Bert, dom, tlr, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS ←

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ralph, Karl, Carine, Shawn, Marisol, Mcf, fumi, mimasa, Klaus, Dom, Maxf, Steven, Chibao, Dave, Karen, Caroline, SusanL, Ian, Ht, Hugo, Philipp, Cedric, Kazuyuki, ←

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Emiller, Ivan, Bert, Alan, Ishida, Felix, Philippe, Thomas, koalie, Judy, Jose, Ben_Adida, Danny, Hal_Abelson, DanC, Dean, Yves, TimBL, Sandro ←

Interoperable Metadata via RDF/A Project Review

Minutes of 06 April 2006

1. W3C home page profile (which includes Dublin Core, and http://www.w3.org/Overview-about.rdf which uses "rights" for "license")

2. where is most current RDF/A spec and is it maintained along with design discussions?

3. RDF/A and GRDDL harmony