See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 17 October 2013
<scribe> scribe: allanj
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq13
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq12
<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20131017/#sc_146
Capitalization (apply all uppercase or all lowercase styles, and override upper case or small caps styles) ?
<Greg> Text in the document now:
<Greg> 1.4.6 Line Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation (Globally): The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AAA)
<Greg> Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0 times the font height, at increments of 0.10
<Greg> Capitalization (overriding upper case and small caps style)
<Greg> Hyphenation
<Greg> Margins
<Greg> Borders
Note: This success criteria does not apply to text entered as ALL CAPS. Content authors are encouraged to use styles instead of typing text as ALL CAPS.
gl: not sure about Hypenation...
js: should be turning off
automated hypenation
... not turning off author supplied hyphenation
gl: PDF may be an issue.
js: auto-hypenation for reflow vs author hypyhens in hyphenation
<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-css-text-3-20131010/#word-break-property
js: auto-hyphenation in text reflow
<Greg> It wasn't clear to me whether it meant a mode where the user agent didn't break even at soft hyphen characters (­).
change to 'word-breaking' (auto-hyphenation)
<jeanne> Word-breaking properties (auto-hyphenation)
Resolution: accept 1.4.6 as
1.4.6 Line Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation (Globally):
The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AAA)
Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0 times the font height, at increments of 0.10
Capitalization (overriding upper case and small caps style)
Word-breaking properties (auto-hyphenation)
Margins
Borders
Note: This success criteria does not apply to text entered as ALL CAPS. Content authors are encouraged to use styles instead of typing text as ALL CAPS.
<Greg> The title lists 3 of the 5 bullet items.
js: change stem to 'Spacing, Capitalization, and Hyphenation;
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq13
<Greg> We have already changed the document to newer text than was in the survey, so some responses are obsolete.
<Greg> Discussion of whether this should apply to all viewports, or just top-level viewports.
<Greg> Agreed to change to "top-level viewports".
gl: need to change IER
jr: leave unstated as to a global setting or specific viewports...leave it to the developer
<Greg> Greg: We can leave it unstated, thus by default user agent can implement as per-viewport or global option. We can clarify that in IER e.g. by having examples of both implementations.
proposed:
1.8.7 Reflow Text : The user can specify that text content in a graphical top-level viewport reflows so the text forms a single column that fits within the width of the viewport. (Level A)
Note 1: Reflow applies to rescaled or zoomed text.
Note 2: For vertical layout languages, text should fit within the height of the viewport to reduce vertical scrolling.
<Greg> From my mail last night: 8. Similarly, 1.8.7 (Reflow Text) Note 2 also could be taken as adding a requirement rather than replacing one. It might be less ambiguous if changed to something like "For vertical layout languages, text should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling."
jr: most vertical language texts have switched to horizontal layout for technology. vertical layout on screen is more of an edge case
<Greg> "Vertical layout text should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling."
jr: css flow direction
... css uses vertical text
js: vertical text means something
else in common usage
... talked to i18n group about vertical text.
... should keep it in but put in note
jr: leave it in.
<Jan> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-writing-modes/#intro-text-layout
<Greg> Or maybe "Vertical layout text (e.g. Mongolian, traditional Chinese) should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling."
For vertical layout languages (e.g. Mongolian, Han) text should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling.
1.8.7 Reflow Text : The user can specify that text content in a graphical top-level viewport reflows so the text forms a single column that fits within the width of the viewport. (Level A)
Note 1: Reflow applies to rescaled or zoomed text.
Note 2: For vertical layout languages (e.g. Mongolian, Han) text should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling.
<Greg> I am a bit worried about cases where the author specifies vertical layout for a horizontal-layout language (e.g. theatre marquis); in that case ideally the user agent option to reduce scrolling should reflow as if it were a vertical language. However, this is a minor edge case.
<Greg> Per my email of last night, the Note could be misinterpreted as saying it applies only to rescaled or zoomed text, so it might be clearer as "Reflow applies even to rescaled or zoomed text", or "Reflow applies even when text is rescaled or zoomed."
<Greg> Agreement to adopt "Reflow applies even when text is rescaled or zoomed."
<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to add 1.8.7 Reflow Text : The user can specify that text content in a graphical top-level viewport reflows so the text forms a single column that fits within the width of the viewport. (Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-908 - Add 1.8.7 reflow text : the user can specify that text content in a graphical top-level viewport reflows so the text forms a single column that fits within the width of the viewport. (level a) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-24].
Note 1: Reflow applies even when text is rescaled or zoomed.
Note 2: For vertical layout languages (e.g. Mongolian, Han) text should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling.
**check to ensure we met all of SH changes
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14
<scribe> ACTION: Jeanne to review comments on https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14 to rewrite IERs [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-909 - Review comments on https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14 to rewrite iers [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-24].
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq15
<Greg> I prefer A but could live with demoting it to AA if that's the group decision.
jr: animation is a matter of scale. does one small animation fail ...
jr, ja, kf, js +1
recognized?
<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to add https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14 as AA to the document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-910 - Add https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14 as aa to the document [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-24].
<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#time-limits
jr: reviews WCAG
... platform vs web-based browsers
<Jan> 2.2.2 Pause, Stop, Hide: For moving, blinking, scrolling, or auto-updating information, all of the following are true: (Level A)...
jr: Should be "A" if wording parallel to WCAG 2.2.2
Greg will look at rewording.
close action-910
<trackbot> Closed action-910.
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131016/results#xq2
discussion of notes
note 1 could be in the summary.
gl: could add to each SC as necessary
js: likes suggestion to make a definition
gl: definition of 'set'
jr: definition of 'set text characteristics'
ja: any change the user make should overide author/browser setting
<Jan> ACTION: JR to propose a definition of "Text Customization, Set Text Characteristics" that might be able to bundle the proposed Guideline 1.4 notes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-911 - Propose a definition of "text customization, set text characteristics" that might be able to bundle the proposed guideline 1.4 notes [on Jan Richards - due 2013-10-24].
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131016/results#xq3
gl: I find the concept of "font
size" to be confusing in this guideline, as to when it means a
specific size (e.g. 16 pt), when it means a factor applied to
some base size (e.g. "large" and "larger" in CSS), and how
these relate to a zoom or scaling factor applied to a viewport
(e.g. a command to double the size of all on-screen rendering
without affecting the size properties of the...
... elements). For example, do we feel a global zoom feature
should satisfy the first bullet of 1.4.1? If not, can that
interpretation be justified by the current wording?
... current UA can't set zoom for all pages. so that's not
global
js: ok with scale instead of size
gl: 1.4.2 take precedence over 1.4.1
add "Note: characteristics set for individual text elements types (1.4.2) should override settings affecting all text content (1.4.1)."
"installed fonts"
1.4.1 Text Scale, Color, Font (Globally): The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content: (Level A)
* Text scale with preserved size distinctions (e.g. keeping headings proportional to main font)
* Text color and background color, choosing from all platform color options
* Font family, choosing from all installed fonts
1.4.2 Text Scale, Color and Font (by Element): The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for text element types including at least headings and input fields:(Level AA)
* Text Scale
* Text color and background color, choosing from all platform color options
* Font family, choosing from all installed fonts
Note: characteristics set for individual text elements types (1.4.2) should override settings affecting all text content (1.4.1).
1.4.2 Text Size, Color and Font (by Element): The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for text element types including at least headings and input fields:(Level AA)
* Text Size or Scale
<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to add the text above for 1.4.1 and last iteration of 1.4.2 in the document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-912 - Add the text above for 1.4.1 and last iteration of 1.4.2 in the document [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-24].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/We're/We have/ Succeeded: s/change/changed/ Succeeded: s/js: leave/jr: leave/ Succeeded: s/Perm/Per/ Succeeded: s/Annimation/Animation/ Found Scribe: allanj Inferring ScribeNick: allanj WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: Greg Greg_Lowney Jan Jeanne Jim_Allan Kelly_Ford Note P3 allanj allanj_ gl https inserted ja joined jr js kford proposed trackbot ua You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy Regrets: Eric Kim Found Date: 17 Oct 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-minutes.html People with action items: jeanne jr[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]