Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

11 Oct 2013


The group did some general housekeeping, reviewing action items, scribing instructions and the operation of zakim and the bots. Much of the meeting was spent on reviewing the plan posted on the wiki for ATAG outreach. Since ATAG is expected to move to candidate recomeendation, we will be seeking implementations. Helle reminded us of the fact that both the accessibility of the output as well as the tool itself will be needing such examples. Sharron asked the group to review her proposed response to wai-editor's group post suggesting that the EasyChecks may be well intentioned but are not useful. Sharron asked the group to review the drafted response and discuss. A few suggestions were made about the language and we closed with a round of introductions.


  1. Scribing instructions & Zakim IRC bot - brief tips for everyone
  2. Action items, short term in wiki - check status of open items
  3. ATAG & UAAG promotion (Promoting Components & ATAG, Promoting ATAG, 23 May minutes, 24 May minutes) - review concrete plan (coming from Sharron)
  4. EOWG introductions, perspectives, & tips for EOWG work


Wayne, Sharron, Bim, Howard, Andrew, Paul, Jan, Suzette, Helle, Shadi
Sylvie, AnnaBelle, Shawn, Vicki
Howard, Sharron (clean-up)


Action Items

Sharron: All members seem to be caught up on short terms items, need to look at "Actions for All" at the top of EO page

Scribing instructions & Zakim IRC bot

<Andrew> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2003/template.html

ATAG Outreach

<Sharron> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Outreach_for_ATAG_2.0_Last_Call_Working_Draft_10_September_2013

Sharron: ATAG been through more than a dozen rewrites. Hoping to move to candidate recommendation this month

Sharron: still have Shawn and WAI folks wanted for use to continue outreach ... got some general outreach ...

Sharron: good idea to review existing support documents of ATAG outreach
... determine if we need additional outreach documents - then engage eo group. Have to figure out how to document all this - what we're doing, etc.
... looking at document - general promotion
... Broke ATAG overview into different sections
... this week - useful for EO to look at the different sections and give feedback on accuracy, if updated, do they need to be unlinked, etc.

<Sharron> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Outreach_for_ATAG_2.0_Last_Call_Working_Draft_10_September_2013

Sharron: we're looking at the plan for ATAG outreach - in the wiki
... next question - are there additional support documents needed?
... need to be targeted in our messages to different audiences
... Sharron listed the different audiences in the document
... To review today regarding document - does this plan make sense
... What messages need to be developed for different audiences
... For example, who are the top LMS companies

Andrew: I added Drupal and other open source tool makers, for example ... Then left space for folks to suggest outreach - twitter, etc.

Sharron: Another issue was the question of how to track our outreach and coordinate with ATAG-WG
... for example, if Howard posts something on LMS, how do we link to that?
... Sharron would appreciate feedback on the framework and ideas for tracking and coordination.

Wayne: doesn't see the place in doc where we actually contact groups

Sharron: mentioned to identify companies - and hope that we also identify someone in the company specifically.

Jan: with these companies, how familiar do you think they are with disabilities and the people who will use these tools?

Sharron: will run the whole spectrum, I imagine

Sharron: some very familiar
... member companies would be more familiar. In some cases, will have to do total education in order to ask them to implement ATAG.

Jan: realized that developers at companies I am working with need updating on these issues. Case studies are helpful.

Sharron: for example, Jan has good contacts, conduit, within Pearson
... if companies can be encouraged to share their implementions.
... Don't have to be compliant all across the board

<Andrew> see http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/w3c-process.php for a brief description of the process

Sharron: this is a general framework - feel free to add other sections
... Shawn had asked me and Wayne to put together a basic plan
... still have to decide what these messages will be, who will we contact
... tbd cont'd - how all these components will work together
... authoring tools companies tend to be defensive about accessibility - hard to get them to share information

Wayne: for example, Oracle with PeopleSoft
... sometimes LMS and CMS have turn-key operations that are distributing software
... Wayne will put this in the Wiki

Helle: re - open source. Have CMS where I work. Not only the devlopers but the implementors who are important.

Sharron: how do we get them to share their good practice in implementation?

Helle: maybe some of he smaller open source folks might be easier to get involved than bigger ones.

Sharron: any suggestions on approaching them?

Helle: problems with smaller groups doing open source is similar to larger companies. Maybe something like Title III might be easier to approach.

<Andrew> some open source CMSs have accessibility pages for sharing, eg Drupal at https://groups.drupal.org/accessibility & https://groups.drupal.org/node/318/og-panel/1

Helle: Year ago in ATAG - doing all these things with getting vendors and suppliers to put in their information about their tools in the WAI website.
... as far as she could remember - putting in info happened but updating was the problem.

<Andrew> would work if version based (even if it wasn't updated)

Sharron: to Shadi - do you remember resource Helle was discussing?

Shadi: thinks so but will have to do some searching.

Bim: wondering if WAI had resources for helping end-users using CMS?

<Andrew> in reference to the old authoring tool list Helle refereed to - http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2002/tools

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2002/AuthoringTools.php3

Sharron: if any archival documents, can (Shadi) find them?

<hbj> it points to ATAG web page

<Andrew> http://www.w3.org/WAI/impl/software.html

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/impl/software.html

Shadi: link Andrew provided is updated resource. If go to WAI homepage (Andrew just posted above)

<Andrew> Published October 2002, minor updates in November 2011

Bim: useful if that sort of info could be rolled into an intro document

Sharron: like ATAG overview

Bim: those looking for accessible tools could look towards WAI for guidance
... motivating people - part of motivation is getting end users to inform tool makers to address accessibility.

Sharron: when they know what to ask for to vendors, accessibility requirements become something vendors listen to.
... adding that to ATAG overview is a good idea.
... ACTION: everyone looks through the plan and make suggestions.

Wayne: have to find 2 implementers.

Helle: Isn't it ATAG's job to find those implementations?

Sharron: don't know. Maybe a shared responsibility.

Shadi: yes, a shared responsibility.
... the tools list that Helle mentioned earlier were developed by working groups, not EO

Sharron: left open - how do we document and coordinate with the working groups

Helle: another question - have we split in outreach plan both tool and whether output is accessible.
... Lot's of people working in this area no aware of need for tool itself is also accessible, not just the output.

Sharron: need to make sure we communicate this.

Helle: don't know how much new ATAG site talks about the output.

Shadi: last time I looked it had the same structure, one to address output, one to address the tool accessibility. Haven't looked at most recent draft - will look.

Sharron: mostly read intro not tech stuff.

Wayne: it's changed quite a bit. Things have moved, etc.

Sharron: anything else about this campaign - great time to put things in the wiki.

<Andrew> ATAG draft still has 'A. Make the authoring tool user interface accessible' and 'B. Support the production of accessible content'

Jan: agrees, companies often miss that the tool, not just the output, needs to be accessible.

response to easy checks comment

<Sharron> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Letter_about_Easy_Checks

sharron: got a letter from someone saying the easy checks is well-intentioned but not useful.
... if everyone could look at the proposed response. Will give a few minutes to read.

Jan: suggests softening the response regarding manual checks - remove wording regarding "confused"

Wayne: comment about automated checkers - we should say - big problems with automated checkers - give many false positives.

Sharron: not sure what other tools to recommend.

Howard: Achecker

Sharron: will incorporate input on letter from today and send out.

Wayne: part of purpose of easy checks is to avoid automated tools. Folks do seem to like to get their hands dirty - i.e. getting into the actual code.

Sharron: has also received good feedback on it.

Howard:no pressure, huh?


<Wayne> Hi Anthony, welcome

Andrew: work at Australian gov't - working on web policy
... we have a national strategy trying to implement wcag II across all areas.
... had 3 years with
... before that 2007 - 2008, training with Vision Australian - worked on first web accessibility tool bar
... been with eowg since 2001 - long time.

<Andrew> Andrew: http://au.linkedin.com/in/andrewarch/

Bim: I'm Bim Eagan. One of Wai team.
... works on wai-act. A number of components for Europoean arena.
... mostly working on tutorial modules.

<Sharron> Bim's intro to EO: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2012OctDec/0037.html

Bim: senior web consultant - previously - RNIB - royal nat. institute for the blind.
... there for several years. Prior to that, web author working for BBC and very strong advocate ...

<Andrew> Bim: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/bim-egan/b/27b/475

Bim: for accessible authoriing tools and accesisble content. All from me.

Helle: I live in Copenhagen, joined in 1999.
... now works in national center for social services.
... Accessibility is not as natural in current environment but still has a job to convince ...

<Andrew> Helle: http://dk.linkedin.com/pub/helle-bjarnoe/19/994/414

Helle: colleagues of needs to make websites accessible.

<Sharron> Howard Kramer is at the University of Colorado, teaching online course (and in person next semester) on web accessibility.

<Sharron> ...has grant to incorporate accessibility into university curriculum for about a year. 12 years in accessibility, including organization of Accessing Higher Ground conference. Coming up Nov 4th

<Andrew> Howard: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/howard-kramer/9/981/7b0

Sharron: Anthony is up next.

<my9pv> Hi

Jan: Anthony is awesome.

<my9pv> this is Anthony

Jan: I'm Jan

<my9pv> from Pearson

Jan: AT specialist for austin school district for 12 years.

<Andrew> Jan: http://www.linkedin.com/in/janmcsorley

Jan: very excited about being able to work with this group.

Shadi: last week was the first I heard about APIP
... upcoming symposium about accessible e-learning.
... will forward the announcement.
... my name is Shadi - work with Bim and Shawn and WAI. Been onboard since 2003.
... been working on several of the resources in EO. Also worked with Andrew on WAI-AGE project.
... also research and devl'p working group.

<Andrew> Shadi: http://at.linkedin.com/in/shadiabouzahra

<Sharron> http://www.knowbility.org/v/staff-detail/Sharron-Rush/3d/

<Andrew> Sharron: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/sharron-rush/0/41/434

Suzette: I'm in N. London in the UK. First met up with Shadi & Andrew with WAI-AGE
... wandered into accessibility when working with older people.

<Andrew> Suzette: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/suzette-keith/a/b07/2a6

Suzette: took early retirement but still works with older people trying to use the Web.

Wayne: I'm a retired professor of computer science. Came to WAI around 2003. Specializes in low vision.
... Fortunate to work with Mark Turner and ... started the ATI for the UC state system ...

<Andrew> Wayne: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/wayne-dick/b/1a2/59b

<Suzette2> Well done to Sharron and Howard for first chair and scribe experiences

Sharron: everyone look at the document.

<Wayne> Andrew, do you know this Mick who wrote NVDA?

<Sharron> From Anthony: Accessibility Advocate in Pearson. Based in Sri Lanka. I basically review all the sites that goes out of Sri Lanka office. Helps the development teams and Testers to make sites accessible. Took leadership to make Pearson Learning Studio Product Accessible. I am pretty new compared to all of you. It is great to work with you. But in Sri Lanka, I guess no one else have gone far in Accessibility as I do. I have passion in Accessibility.

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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