Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

06 Sep 2013


Group review of current actions pointed to Sharron's draft of "language for checking forms if you are comfortable with code." We will review next meeting. Most other actions are current, Shawn will add to the action wiki Howard's curriculum work. In considering the Illustrations Strategy that AnnaBelle has been working on she has asked for an answer to the list of questions. The group took time in the meeting to do that. It's looking really good! Considering WCAG review of the Last Call for longdesc spec and the current Indie UI version, the following members will review: Sylvie will review longdesc. Sharron will review IndieUI and will ask Ian, Wayne, and Paul to do some review as well. Announcements included AnnaBelle retirement which means more time for EO - yay! Also the Accesisiblity Summit and Accessing Higher Ground had registration announcments and we adjourned until next week.


  1. Action items, short term in wiki - review status of all open
  2. WCAG2ICT Overview - review and discuss comments in the wcag2ict wiki page
  3. EOWG Reviews - plan for:
  4. Illustration strategy for Easy Checks and other - check in on status and open issues
  5. (postponed for Bim) Images Tutorial - any comments from review survey to discuss?
  6. (postponed for Bim) Tutorials first page - discuss high-level what this page should say for now, comments in wiki


Sharron, Shawn, AnnaBelle, Shadi, Howard, Sylvie
Helle, Andrew, Vicki, Paul, Suzette, Wayne


<shawn> [interesting tangential discussion on WCAG conformance. if have one alt missing on one page of 10,000, then technically it doesn't conform]

Action Item check

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Action_Items</ a>

Sharron: Drafted some language about checking forms if comfortable looking at code


Shawn: Action - Sharron to send message to those who have not yet completed the survey. Otherwise, everyone's actions should be updated. Feel free to grey out or remove completed items.

WCAG to ICT Overview page

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag2ict

Shawn: Recently added, so let's take a few minutes to look it over now since we can edit it at any time. Is it clear, understandable are there any comments?

<Howard> more time

Sharron: Suggest removing parenthetical phrase "it is a W3C Recommendation and an ISO International Standard (ISO/IEC 40500:2012)" Take that part out of dashes and make separate, follow-on sentence.

<shawn> Sylvie's comments in wiki: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Wcag2ict_ Overview

<shadi> looks good btw!

Sylvie: There is another sentence later on that is the same in terms of being too complicated with a dash in the middle, hard to read with screen reader.

Howard: I like the information between the em dashes. People who aren't used to reading WAI documents will benefit from hearing the difference between normative, the clarification.

Sylvie: It is too much information in one sentence - like three subjects, easy to get lost.
... also where do we explain what is non-Web technologies? Use the definition from the document or explain more briefly.

Shawn: In the 3rd paragraph there is a short explanation, does it not explain?

Sylvie: Would prefer to have an example.

<AnnaBelle> I agree with Sylvie. I could use example on non-web docs and software.

Sylvie: Maybe take the example from the original document.

Shawn: Are there examples there?

Sylvie: They don't cite any products, but it does explain more in the definitions.

Shawn: OK, will look at key terms and definitions

AnnaBelle: I was assuming that it was aimed at mobile apps. So it is interesting that the examples are not that.

Shadi: It is typically true that apps are not written in HTML but they draw from the web and are becoming essentially a mix of content and browser plug-ins, so we don't think of them as non-Web.
... using the term non-web documents and software may be too limiting. ICT is actually a broader spectrum beyond documents and software.

Shawn: But the document itself imposes that limitation.

Shadi: So we can perhaps address it with the examples. Is a mobile app really software? Tend to think of software as desktop.

Shawn: Any other reactions, comments?

Shadi: Clarification of scope was on my list. To the section "What is in..." the comments on conformance may need more.

Shawn: But we have said "related to applying WCAG to nonweb ICT" often, does it get repetitive?

Shadi: We have to be cautious about being seen as re-interpreting WCAG

<shawn> WCAG2ICT was developed to provide an authoritative interpretation of how WCAG 2.0 can apply in different contexts. [saz: add "outside the web"

Shadi: and do we want to add outside the web to after the sentence "different context"?
... editor's discretion.

Shawn: You brought up the point of WCAG conformance and reinterpretation. Should we clarify that if you are doing web based stuff you DON'T need this document?

Shadi: Maybe, if I interpret correctly, Sylvie was also asking that question. In the first part, do we need to let people know if you are working on web you don't need this. May need to be more blunt

Howard: Seems pretty clear to me that it is referencing non-Web technologies.

EOWG Reviews

Shawn: For some of us, reviewing the documents from other groups is not the most fun work that we get to do, but it is important and I want to remind the group to try to make the time to do it. While the tech WGs have good strong technical skills, they often need the kind of educational framing and communication skills that this group has.
... with this in mind, we need to review the longdesc work especially the intro and use cases.

<Sylvie> Volunteer to review longdesc.

Shawn: the other is the IndieUI events, as a working draft. Background and intro especially need review for how it is landing, clarity of expression and purpose. When EO writes an overview page, the tech document abstract and intro should link to it.

Sharron: I volunteer Wayne to review longdesc
... and I will review Indie UI
... I will ask Ian to review longdesc, Paul to review IndieUI

Shawn: Shall we create wiki pages for that?

Sharron: OK will do that.

Shawn: Deadline is 16 September
... Images tutorial due by Tuesday and longdesc review by Wednesday.
... In our own docs we can be picky, we want the polished. When reviewing technical specs, we can have a lower filter, only need to comment on really important things. Can overlook things that are minor. We want to look for big problems, not nitpick on other group's tech specs.

Illustration Strategy

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_ Checks#Version_5

AnnaBelle: I would like to wrap up the questions that you have linked somewhere so that I can get rid of the inline code
... Can we run the questions against the prototype on my site? I have heard from Wayne and Sylvie. I get the sense that the answer is yes, but would like to confirm.

Shawn: Looks mostly useful, there may be a browser bug. Mostly it works, so I would address any things you can easily fix and not worry too much about the eccentricities of all the various browsers.
... It scales nicely, the second one stacks.

Annabelle: I would like to add 10 pixels vertically in the stack so they don't bang up against each other?

Shawn: Yes, sounds OK. And did you see my comments?

AnnaBelle: Yes I commented on them. I would prefer to leave them.

Shawn: What about for the caption, can we nt have a left margin in order for it to line up?
... and be aware of ems for enlarging and the effect on captions.
... This is great work AnnaBelle, thanks so much!

AnnaBelle: Do I send to the same group?

Shawn: You could just send to me and I could send to the whole list.
... after posting to WAI pages
... I hang out in IRC all day, always in the EO channel, not always on email. So if you want to reach me quickly, please feel free

AnnaBelle: I'll have more time coming up since I was offered early retirement and said yes. I wanted to be sure that I could still participate in EO - so I checked with Shawn who said, yes, the sooner the better, we will keep you busy in EO.
... it was great, I was so surprised.

Shawn: Are you kidding, you have so many skills, we will take full advantage.
... Other agenda items should be postponed until Bim is able to attend. We should all have plenty to do in the additional 30 minutes. Howard, shall we add the curriculum work as an Action on your wiki page?

Howard: Sure, let's add it to the Action wiki so I have the reminder.

Shawn: Great, anything else?

Sharron: Accessibility Summit

Howard: Accessing Higher Ground early registration discount ends today.

Shawn: Thanks everyone, have a great week-end and thanks for all your hard work. Bye

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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