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<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB
<scribe> Scribe: Art
AB: Welcome back everyone ;-)!
<jrossi> Congrats, Cathy!
AB: I published a draft agenda yesterday http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JulSep/0005.html. Any change requests?
[ No change requests for the agenda ]
AB: let's talk about CR
implementation status.
... Rick submitted an update re Blink/Chrome
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JulSep/0007.html
... Rick says a few weeks for touch-actions
JR: and Rick said a few months before the impl is complete
AS: the "few months" from Rick was about the touch-action-delay
MB: re Firefox, a Microsoft person (?) submitted a Gecko patch
<mbrubeck> Microsoft contributed patches to Gecko, currently being reviewed: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=822898
… still a WIP
OP: that is in my review queue
… that patch was about the PE events and not the CSS property
… but I expect that person to implement that too
<mbrubeck> The contributor, Oleg Romashin ("romaxa") is a long-time Firefox developer.
<jrossi> Oleg Romashin <Oleg.Romashin@microsoft.com>
AB: thanks Matt and Olli
OP: I think there needs to be some work on mouse and pointer events interaction
… we need some tests to work on that
… Oleg is working on that
MB: Wes Johnson is interested in doing some work too
… he mentioned that to Oleg
AB: is there a timeframe for FF/Gecko?
MB: no
OP: no, events stuff is "easy" but the CSS property is not
AB: Scott, any news from jQuery?
SG: working on Polymer. The goal is to use Polymer and not our own implementation
<sangwhan> Opera 14+ is a ditto of Rick's status update
AB: Jacob, Asir, what about IE?
JR: we release IE11 Preview a few weeks ago
… it includes updated MSPointerEvents
… it is still member-prefixed
… We will ship IE 11 without prefixes
… we will announce this on our blog later this week
… We think the compat hit will be minimal
AB: when can we expect that to hit the street?
JR: we don't have an announced date
… other than we expect IE11 to be in Windows 8.1
AB: thanks Jacob
<jrossi> Windows 8.1 will be available before the end of the calendar year
JR: one thing to note is that now we don't expect to build support for the constructor
… we need to do that across the board
… not clear if that will be in IE11
DS: that's not a problem per se from the standarization PoV, but if that constructor is in the spec, we will need 2 impls that do support the constructor
… Will we get that?
JR: think it will be supported by Blink and Firefox
OP: I expect us to support it in Gecko
DS: ok, thanks
AB: Sangwhan, what about Opera?
SM: our impl will depend on Rick (Chromium's) work
… Opera's Presto - it seems unlikely we will add PE support
… unless there becomes lots of content that use it and we have an interop problem
AS: so Opera's work depends on Chromium?
SM: yes
AS: what did you say about Presto? Because I could not hear the full summary
<sangwhan> Bottom line is Opera's work now depends on Chromium
<sangwhan> As the rendering engine is now using Blink starting from Opera (Mobile) 14+
<sangwhan> Nothing else from Opera
AB: any news about Polymer?
SG: one place is a deviation is the touch-action attribute
… they've done a lot of work to remove it
… not sure where that stands now
<scott_gonzalez> https://github.com/Polymer/PointerEvents/issues/92
JR: Rick mentioned Polymer in his status report
AB: anything about WebKit?
… as I understand it, Microsoft submitted a patch for WebKit. Is that true?
AS: our patches are all online
… I don't have any new info
AB: any other impl data to share?
AB: the general topic is what
needs to be done to make the test suite sufficient to test an
implementation of the CR.
... and, more specifically, I think it would be useful if we
had an understanding about Who is going to do What and by
When.
... Matt proposed an overall testing process in
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013AprJun/0167.html
and earlier today I codified quite a bit of that in http://www.w3.org/wiki/PointerEvents/Testing.
... let's start with an inventory
... We have Scott's pointerdown file as "approved"
https://raw.github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/master/pointerevents/pointerdown.html
so it is now mirrored and thus can be run directly in a browser
via http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/pointerevents/
... Last April, there were some TTWF submissions
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013AprJun/0092.html
and they are not in the pointerevents repo
https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/pointerevents
... how do we get review on those submissions
SM: those are put in new repos, they are not PRs
MB: correct, they were created before we had the pointerevents repo
SG: I can ask Dave to make a PR to the new repo
<scott_gonzalez> https://github.com/dmethvin/pointerevents-test
AB: that would be great; then we need PRs for the other submissions
SG: I think Dave needs to do a merge and then after that is done to make a PR for the pointerevents repo
<scribe> ACTION: scott follow up with Dave to get a PR from the April TTWF to the pointerevents repo [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/30-pointerevents-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Follow up with Dave to get a PR from the April TTWF to the pointerevents repo [on Scott González - due 2013-08-06].
SM: please let me know when that PR is made
SG: OK
AB: re notifications, I think it
would be useful for people to send an email to the list after
they submit a PR
... do we need to chase the other submitters or is Dave doing
that?
SG: Dave's PR will include a merge of the other submissions
AB: one of the next Qs is about coverage/breath and then depth
<mbrubeck> sangwhan: Where/who should I ask for write access to that repo?
… wrt coverage, the Test Assertion table is a good way to get a handle on that
AB: Cathy, is the Test Assertions table complete? http://www.w3.org/wiki/PointerEvents/TestAssertions
<jrossi> mbrubeck: Mike Smith gave me my write access
CC: there could be a couple of sections that still need some work
<sangwhan> mbrubeck: Tobie/Mike/Robin
… f.ex. the CSS property
… other than that, I think I'm done
AB: so one Q is if the TAs are sufficient to qualify an impl re the CR
JR: I think we now have sufficient breadth
… the feature coverage seems adequate
… The depth Q is different
… I would need to do a path
… but I think what we have is pretty good
<jrossi> http://samples.msdn.microsoft.com/ietestcenter/#pointerevents
… Microsoft will contribute some tests
… I need to prep then and create a PR
… and that will cover more assertions
SM: re TouchEvents, there is some variability when running them, hope we can do better with PointerEvents
SG: agree we should be more clear here, especially why some tests are not run
… we need to describe what we expect to happen and then what actually happens
<scott_gonzalez> If possible, we should generate a failing test if we can detect that a block of event assertions never ran.
AB: Jacob, when can we expect those tests?
JR: within the next two weeks.
<scott_gonzalez> But we may not be able to reliably determine that based on differing pointer types.
<scott_gonzalez> At a minimum, we should have a short description of what we expected to happen so the tester can easily determine if all assertions have run.
AB: thanks Jacob
… can you think of any features that you don't test?
JR: not sure but perhaps the touch-action property
… I will update the wiki with our tests and that will help with understanding which features we have coverage
SG: the Test Status data isn't particuarly useful
… they need to be changed to more useful status
… like "Approved"
AB: +1 Scott!
AS: re approval, is there a way they can approved in August?
SG: all of the tests, or those with PRs
AS: I mean all of the coverage we need
SG: I don't think I will be able to review everything by August
… based on history, not sure we will have all of the tests by August
AB: the minimum req is to have at least one person review each test
… and we should certaily strive to do better than that
… and avoid the "fox guarding the chicken coop"
AS: reviewing tests can be really useful, especially for the implementers
SM: how do we handle duplicates?
SG: for Dave's PR, we will take care of that
… unless a test Seattle is more comprehensive
SM: looking at the IE tests, they could be covered by Seattle tests
… who is going to take care of duplicates
JR: it could be helpful to review our submissions versus the Seattle tests
… I think it's OK for PRs to include dups
… and then we remove the dups before being merged to master
SG: perhaps it would be best if Dave waits until Microsoft submits its tests
… if the Seattle tests overlap IE, Dave could just ignore the Seattle tests
AB: so Scott will ask Dave to block until Jacob submits his tests. Is this correct?
SG: yes
AB: so I think we have a good plan then
… and Jacob is going to update the TA table re the Microsoft tests
<jrossi> Yes, Cathy's table was a big help!
<asir> Indeed!!!
AB: the TA table is really great
Cathy
... anything else on testing for today?
[ No ]
AB: anything else for today?
AS: when is the next call?
AB: is the current process working?
AS: let's meet after Jacob submits his tests
AB: that sounds like a good
working assumption
... is the current meeting frequency working OK?
DS: I'd leave it to you Art
<asir> +1
AB: ok, we'll continue along the way we are going
DS: I went to OSCON last week in PDX, PointerEvents was a topic
… and there is an HTML DevConf with Jacob on a PE panel
<jrossi> http://html5devconf.com/
AB: meeting adjourned
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/WebKit/Firefox/ Succeeded: s/what about Presto?/what did you say about Presto? Because I could not hear the full summary/ Succeeded: s/upcoming conf/HTML DevConf/ Found ScribeNick: ArtB Found Scribe: Art Present: Art_Barstow Matt_Brubeck Jacob_Rossi Asir_Vedamuthu Cathy_Chan Olli_Pettay Scott_González Doug_Schepers Sangwhan_Moon Regrets: Rick_Byers Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JulSep/0005.html Got date from IRC log name: 30 Jul 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/07/30-pointerevents-minutes.html People with action items: dave follow scott up with WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]