<trackbot> Date: 25 September 2012

<AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 25 September 2012

only me!

<AxelPolleres> Sandro, Carlos, Greg, Andy, Arthur, Axel, Steve, on the phone, anybody else?

<AxelPolleres> Birte also on the phone.

I can do it

<AxelPolleres> scribe: carlos

AxelPolleres: work for publication next week

admin

AxelPolleres: focus on resolving main left issues

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-09-18

AxelPolleres: any comments on the minutes

<AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-09-18

<AxelPolleres> Next regular meeting: 2012-10-02 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST

AxelPolleres: anything from the RDF WG?

liaison

AndyS: discussion on semantics, they are coming to a conclusion...

test corrections

<AndyS> "they *were* coming to a conclusion" ... but now ?!??

<AxelPolleres> mail from greg http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0200.html

<AxelPolleres> Re-approve :dawg-delete-using-02a, :dawg-delete-using-06a

<AndyS> What about the other unapproved tests?

<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/delete/manifest.ttl

AxelPolleres: any vote for reapproving these two test cases?

kasei: I only changed the comments

AxelPolleres: are these test cases pass?

kasei: yes, by at least Andy and me (Greg)
... others did not have enoughtime

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED : re-approve dawg-delete-using-02a and dawg-delete-using-06a

AxelPolleres: should we reapprove them?

kasei: there are two query, all protocol, all entailment to re-approve?

AxelPolleres: for CR we need them?

sandro: we need a test suite for CR, or at least some of them

<Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask how many unapproved tests there are (that need approving)

kasei: for everything but graph store (and maybe entailment) we have the tests

<kasei> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/

<AxelPolleres> syntax-query/manifest#test_61a, syntax-query/manifest#test_62a

<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/syntax-query/manifest.ttl

<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/syntax-query/syntax-BINDscope7.rq

<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/syntax-query/syntax-BINDscope8.rq

AxelPolleres: can we approve them?

<kasei> +1

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve syntax-query/manifest#test_61a, syntax-query/manifest#test_62a

<AxelPolleres> +1

<bglimm> +1

<MattPerry> +1

+1

<AndyS> +1

<chimezie> +1

<AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve syntax-query/manifest#test_61a, syntax-query/manifest#test_62a

<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/delete/manifest.ttl

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED : approve dawg-delete-using-02a and dawg-delete-using-06a

<kasei> +1

<AxelPolleres> +1

<AndyS> +1

AxelPolleres: anybody else?

<AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve dawg-delete-using-02a and dawg-delete-using-06a

AxelPolleres: Greg and Andy, note that in the query and update part

kasei: I can make the changes in the manifest

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to make changes in the manifest on newly approved tests, also cleaning up commented test cases replaced. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-sparql-minutes.html#action01]

AxelPolleres: what about the protocol tests?

<trackbot> Created ACTION-683 - Make changes in the manifest on newly approved tests, also cleaning up commented test cases replaced. [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-10-02].

kasei: I haven't got reports about people hosting them
... my implementation pass most of them, but not all
... I will contact Andy offline to get this done

AxelPolleres: we need two implementations before we approve them
... entailment regimes, we focus on those tests after publication

bglimm: we need probably test with documentation

AxelPolleres: how do we proceed there

bglimm: it is a bit early but we can update the documentation about how the marking was done
... I can send an update of the document

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Birte send an update on http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html regarding Entailment tests. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-sparql-minutes.html#action02]

AxelPolleres: what does it mean we need a test suite?

sandro: I do not know whether to go to CR with a test suite, it would be nice

<trackbot> Created ACTION-684 - Send an update on http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html regarding Entailment tests. [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-10-02].

bglimm: do you think you will have a set of tests before next telco?
... yes, I have a complete test suite

AxelPolleres: any volunter to review entailment tests?

chimezie: I'm working on that

bglimm: tests can be run with different regimes, now I run them with direct semantics

AxelPolleres: tell what tests pase and somebody to review those

bglimm: I sent a list of tests cases my implementation passes

AxelPolleres: somebody to review entailment tests?
... I will try to do this

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to review entailment tests which have at least one pass, such that we can approve them nexty week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-sparql-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-685 - Review entailment tests which have at least one pass, such that we can approve them nexty week [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-02].

sandro: I don't know if whether the group decided the criteria to CR

<sandro> PROPOSED: For all SPARQL 1.1 specs, our CR Exit criterion (that is: sufficient evidence of implementation): each of the tests which have been officially approved by the WG is passed by two or more implementations.

sandro: we should formalize the requirements to go to CR

<AxelPolleres> +1

<sandro> +1

<chimezie> +1

<MattPerry> +1

<ericP> +1

<AndyS> +1

kasei: I did not know wether it is important to have implementations passing the tests out of the WG (it is not)

+1

<kasei> +1

<sandro> RESOLVED: For all SPARQL 1.1 specs, our CR Exit criterion (that is: sufficient evidence of implementation): each of the tests which have been officially approved by the WG is passed by two or more implementations.

<ArthurK> +1

<AndyS> I hope we will have external reports.

<sandro> indeed.

comments

<AxelPolleres> RC-2

<AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Sep/0002.html

kasei: I send an email summarizing, I talked to him offline, he is not happy at all about the suggestion I made, continues to add a normative language as the format for errors, I do not really see a value of doing that

AxelPolleres: it is not an option to follow Richard's advice
... it is too late and there is no technical agreement

kasei: it is too late because we delayed the protocol document

AxelPolleres: it is only an example about errors we have

kasei: it may be an issue about the status messages

AxelPolleres: this is off the table in the group

kasei: changing the examples will be good, but Richard will think that this is not enough

AxelPolleres: we could put something in the future work
... can you draft the response?

kasei: I can try, but maybe he is upset at me
... I will do it if nobody else can do it

AxelPolleres: Greg to sync up with Lee about this issue

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to sync with Lee on drafting a response to RC-2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-sparql-minutes.html#action04]

sandro: I think that using HTTP error messages is weird

<trackbot> Created ACTION-686 - Sync with Lee on drafting a response to RC-2 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-10-02].

kasei: I'm happy in reverting the changes

<AxelPolleres> RV-10

<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RV-10

AxelPolleres: only thing open was what is the behavior of blank nodes in QuadData, we should add some explanation in the spec

<AxelPolleres> INSERT DATA { GRAPH :g1 { _:b :p :o } GRAPH :g2 { _:b :p :o } } ;

<AndyS> I don't see any changes to update since 9/9 - are the editorial changes outstanding?

AxelPolleres: essentially the question is what happens if you insert the data before

<AxelPolleres> INSERT DATA { GRAPH :g1 { _:b :p :o } } ; INSERT DATA { GRAPH :g2 { _:b :p :o } }

AxelPolleres: from my perspective we haven't written the formal semantics, I want to know what the implementers think
... some of the blank nodes in the operations would be different

kasei: I agree with Andys, my implementation does it

AxelPolleres: I will make this commit today (the editorial change)
... we can discuss it offline

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to make editorial edits on update explaining the intended behaviour on bnodes shared across operations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-sparql-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-687 - Make editorial edits on update explaining the intended behaviour on bnodes shared across operations [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-02].

AxelPolleres: I would appreciate if you participate ini the mail discussion

AndyS: when would you like to have the changes made?

AxelPolleres: I will try to make them today

final edit requirements

AxelPolleres: Sandro, is there any progress on the CR page

sandro: I will try to update the page today
... this is more about gathering data (implementation reports, comments, etc.)

AxelPolleres: pending issue: get draft responses out, get implementation reports ready

sandro: we should get Richard to not formally object

<AxelPolleres> AOB?

<AxelPolleres> adjourned

<AxelPolleres> carlos, will you do the common scribe stuff?

yes

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to check Birte's README edits on entailment tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-sparql-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-688 - Check Birte's README edits on entailment tests [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-02].

<AxelPolleres> thanks carlos for scribing!

:)

rssagent, draft minutes

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/that AndyS does this/with Andys/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: cbuilara
Found Scribe: carlos

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: AndyS ArthurK AxelPolleres MacTed MattPerry PROPOSED SteveH bglimm cbuilara chimezie ericP joined kasei sandro sparql trackbot
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        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-09-25
Found Date: 25 Sep 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-sparql-minutes.html
People with action items: axel birte greg

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