<trackbot> Date: 05 July 2012

<pgroth> Scribe: Jun Zhao

Admin

<pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-06-28

<pgroth> proposed: Minutes of the June 28, 2012 Telecon

+1

<tlebo> 0 (did not attend)

<jcheney> +1

<khalidBelhajjame> +1

<pgroth> accepted: Minutes of the June 28, 2012 Telecon

<pgroth> Day 1 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-06-22

<pgroth> day 2 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-06-23

<pgroth> proposed: Minutes from F2F3

<stain> Zakim: +44.789.470.aadd is me

+0 (not there all the time)

<TomDN> +1

<khalidBelhajjame> +1

<jcheney> +1

<tlebo> +1

<smiles> 0

<SamCoppens> +0 (not there)

<dgarijo> +0 (I wasn't there the whole time)

<pgroth> accepted: Minutes from F2F3

ACTION-94: Ivan is still on holiday. we can do that later

<trackbot> ACTION-94 Check when we should do internationalization and how for PROV-N notes added

<Luc> +q

Luc: is internationalization for just prov-n or all of them?

Sandro: for all of them. but we will do it one after another

<Luc> -q

Action 97 and 98 on Paulo

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 97

<sandro> sandro: they might want to review them all at once

Action 101 on Curt, will move to after LC

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 101

Paul hasn't done his work yet

<pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/14

<stain> @Jun - you can use "... " as a prefix to say that it is continuation of last person you mentioned

scribe: created a cross-product document

PAQ

@stain, I know that. but I don't know how to avoid typing actions :)

Paul: anyone intending for more feature request for PAQ. otherwise we will close the open call for new features

<tlebo> @paul, just my prov-pingbacks :-)

pgroth: it's in the issue track. we might start to look at it next week.

Finalizing reviews

<tlebo> @jun, tab will auto-complete user names for you. Try to use usernames instead of real names.

<jcheney> working on it

<TomDN> (I sent mine just before the telecon)

Luc: we received feedback from khalid and dgarijo, and jun, and jcheney maybe by tomorrow?
... any other feedback?

pgroth: that's all that signed up for. mabye satya, but didn't commit to it
... anyone to feedback by tomorrow?

>jc

>jc

Luc: go through feedback on Monday and hope to finish by next telcom

<khalidBelhajjame> I signed up but I haven't provided the feedback yet

Luc: feedback on prov-n; khalid signed up?

<khalidBelhajjame> will try to send iot tomorrow

<jcheney> also working on it

Luc: jcheney also signed up?

<TomDN> I had signed up for the primer, but havent done it yet. I could do prov-N instead?

<khalidBelhajjame> @Luc, thanks

Luc: work on the feedback on Wednesday and get ready for the review

<TomDN> ok :)

<stain> I can volunteer for anything needing reviewer

<khalidBelhajjame> that is good for me

Luc: feedback by Tuesday lunch time UK time, will be great

TomDN and stain also on prov-n

tlebo: on prov-o. announced doc to review on tuesday
... received feedback from luc and jun and one external review. will incorporate in the next couples of days
... Monday will do

<SamCoppens> I will review it also

pgroth: anyone else on prov-o?

<hook> I can also review it.

SamCoppens, hook, and pgroth will also review

smiles: on primer. we had a lot of reviews. most of them are small
... will try to fix it tomorrow and get it ready by Saturday

<tlebo> @SamCoppens by monday good for you? (Friday would be good, too)

<tlebo> @hook, same as to @SamCoppens

pgroth: we will keep primer open to be adjusted according to other docs

<SamCoppens> @tlebo sure, that is fine

<hook> by Monday for me.

<tlebo> @SamCoppens @hook thanks!

jcheney: on prov-constraints. presumed to be ready for review by 19 July. not ready for review now

<TomDN> I'm working through the emails. Hope to catch up soon and provide input

jcheney: discussed over emails about what to be done. but not totally converged yet. will have time next week to work together with Luc and Paolo
... aiming for the end of the july

Last Call Vote

pgroth: we will vote on releasing prov-dm, prov-n, and prov-o for last call in the next telcom
... please express your opinions on the mailing list if you can't make to the call
... would be nice to know well in advance if there are any outstanding issues to block the release for LC

Luc: any feedback, any concern at any time before the vote are welcome

PROV-N Media Type Application

<Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html#media-type

Luc: we have to go through the media types before the LC

<stain> +q to suggest .provn as suggested file extension?

Luc: there is a draft suggestion in the above link. and look for feedback to text/prov-n

<stain> @GK, but it's PROV-N - not any odd provenance text..

<tlebo> @gk, that's a bit broad, no?

<stain> GK has expertise

<Zakim> stain, you wanted to suggest .provn as suggested file extension?

stain: your suggestions generally look good

<tlebo> stian: .provn ?

<TomDN> @gk: we considered both text/prov-n and text/prov at f2f3. (don't recall why we chose prov-n exactly)

<Zakim> GK, you wanted to suggest that the registered media type should be something like text/provenance rarther than text/prov-n

<stain> stian: .provn should be somewhat googleable rather than .pn

<pgroth> provenance-notation

GK: find text/provn less intuitive to general audience. text/provenance?

<tlebo> provenance-notation seems nice

<stain> pgroth: text/provenance-notation reads well

<stain> @

<TomDN> It is a bit long...

<tlebo> +1 provenance-notation (length is fine)

pgroth: text/provenance-notation looks nice

<sandro> why not "prov-notation"

GK: length is not the problem

<sandro> since the thing is called "prov"

<smiles> agreed that provenance-notation is good

<tlebo> application/rdf+xml is "long" , and we get by...

<pgroth> i think GK

<khalidBelhajjame> prov-notation

sandro: how about text/prov ?

<jcheney> I asked "what about text/prov" at the f2f3 and people said no...

<sandro> sandro: how about text/prov-notation since prov is the brand name

<stain> .. but it is 'prov' and not 'n' that is the big unknown

<sandro> (actually, I like text/prov, but I wasn't at the f2f so ignore me)

<TomDN> Non-specialist people didn't know what text/css was either in the beginning...

<pgroth> what about prov-provenance

<tlebo> why bother shortening it?

<tlebo> provenance-notation - tell people what it is :-)

<stain> or text/html or application/xml or image/png

<pgroth> the title of the document is PROV-N: The Provenance Notation

<TomDN> and they didn't make it text/cascading-stylesheet either.

<stain> so "Provenance Notation" would be quite googleable as well

<Luc> what about a straw pall on prov-notation and provenance-notation?

GK: provn might not tell people what this is about. we have to think this might be for people out of the w3c community

pgroth: we need this before the last call

<pgroth> straw poll: mimetype is text/provenance-notation

<stain> multiple votes allowed or first choice?

Luc: shall we run a poll

<SamCoppens> +1

<GK> +1

<tlebo> +1

+1

<stephenc> +1

<zednik> +1

<TomDN> +0 (not wild about it, but don't want to block anything either)

<jcheney> 0 (not sure)

<smiles> +1

<sandro> 0

<stain> +1

<tlebo> @stian, if you want something else, do a -1

<Paolo> +1

<khalidBelhajjame> +0 (don't mind either of the two options)

<jcheney> meh...

<dgarijo> +1

<hook> +0 (should be consistant across the brand?)

<pgroth> straw poll mimetype is text/prov-notation

<smiles> +1

<GK> +1

0

<stain> +1

<dgarijo> +0

<Paolo> 0

<tlebo> +0 (better than text/prov-n, though)

<zednik> +0

<SamCoppens> 0

<sandro> +1

<jcheney> 0 (why abbreviate part?)

<Luc> any other suggestion?

<stain> text/prov-n was the original suggestion

<khalidBelhajjame> +0 (either way is fine with me)

<sandro> and text/prov seems to me, naively, to make sense.

<sandro> (but ignore me if you like)

<GK> (I'm squinting at the text around charset - I think it's OK, but I note that (IIRC) default all text/* content-types default to US-ASCII. That jars slightly with "The encoding is always UTF-8 [http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html#bib-UTF-8]")

<TomDN> @sandro: I like that one as well

pgroth: anyone wants to vote on prov-n?

<stain> I would do +1 on text/prov-n as well - so basically all my votes are 0..

<jcheney> I'd support text/prov or text/prov-n but not block other two...

<stain> @GK, what do Turtle say on this?

<GK> I'll try and provide some wording next week.

Luc: would really like feedback from expertise.

<stain> "The media type of Turtle is text/turtle (pre-registration media type application/x-turtle should be accepted). The content encoding of Turtle content is always UTF-8. Charset parameters on the mime type are required until such time as the text/ media type tree permits UTF-8 to be sent without a charset parameter"

<stain> I agree on always UTF-8 as long as the wording requires encoding to be UTF-8.

<stain> We can say "The only supported encoding is UTF-8"

GK: some re-wording in some places might help

Luc: maybe we can work on this together offline? it was copied from sparql or turtle? (can't hear it properly)

GK: can help with this next week

<pgroth> straw poll mimetype type text/prov-n

<GK> I'm OK with text/prov too.

pgroth: jcheney wanted to have a poll on the original

<smiles> +0.5

<tlebo> -1

<TomDN> +1

<jcheney> +1

<SamCoppens> 0

<dgarijo> +0

<GK> -1 to text/prov-n

0

<stain> +1

<khalidBelhajjame> 0

<stephenc> 0

<sandro> +1

<zednik> -0.5

<pgroth> proposed: mimetype is text/provenance-notation

<stain> +1

<TomDN> +0

<tlebo> +1

<GK> +1

<smiles> +1

<dgarijo> +1

<SamCoppens> +1

<stephenc> +1

<jcheney> 0

+1

<satya> +1

<Paolo> +1

<zednik> +1

<sandro> 0

<stain> (going off-irc)

<pgroth> accepted: mimetype is text/provenance-notation

<Luc> and .provn as extension?

<pgroth> proposed: extension is .provn

<smiles> +1

+1

<SamCoppens> +1

stain: +1

<sandro> 0

<khalidBelhajjame> +1

<jcheney> +1

<GK> 0

<dgarijo> +1

<TomDN> +0

<zednik> 0

<satya> 0

<tlebo> 0 (to avoid holding it up, .pn seemed cleaner and looks less like bad file contents)

<pgroth> accepted: extension of prov-n is .provn

<TomDN> (just curious: are there any other 5 character extensions you know of?)

Luc: a vote on .pn too?

<pgroth> proposed: extension is .pn

<stainPhone> -1

<smiles> 0

<tlebo> +1

<GK> 0

-1

<Paolo> 0

<TomDN> +0

<dgarijo> 0

<jcheney> 0

<SamCoppens> 0

<sandro> 0

<satya> 0

<hook> 0

<khalidBelhajjame> 0

<tlebo> (.pn looks like a mistyped .png...)

<smiles> @TomDN you get .xhtml sometimes

<Luc> thanks

PROV Namespace

<dgarijo> @tlebo: I won't even tell you what does it looks like in spanish :)

pgroth: paq defined some terms using the prov namespace

<tlebo> @dgarijo You're right, I don't want to know.

<stainPhone> Solved by using slash rather than hash

<tlebo> @stian, yes.

<stainPhone> That is the main motivation for slash

pgroth: we want to get the owl definition for a term when using curl

<tlebo> @pgroth I hadn't thought of concatenating, I think worth considering.

pgroth: look for suggestions to solve the problem by keeping the namespace as it is

<dgarijo> @tlebo: they are already included, right?

<stainPhone> Namespace can resolve to owl that imports other owls, one for provo, one for note, one for dictionary..

<pgroth> can you fill in luc

<Luc> yes

<pgroth> back

<stainPhone> Owl in provo spec part of rec, but not what is at namespace

<Luc> ok

<jcheney> I've been dropped, have to go now anyway...

<Luc> can someone reexplain this concatenation for me? thanks

<stainPhone> +q

<GK> But at some point, the fork *will* occur - I think.

[ I don't quite understand the conversation. can someone else scribe for this part? thanks]

<tlebo> +1 to what Stian is suggesting, resolving the namespace simply returns some owl:imports

<GK> We could add rdfs:comment that makes it clear the extra terms are not part of the PROV-O standard?

<tlebo> +1 to @pgroth to avoiding renaming the namespace.

<sandro> stain: if we use a slash instead of a hash, then we could redirect flexibly

<sandro> stain: when we decided on hash, we didnt habe these modules

<satya> +1 @Stian

<tlebo> @satya, which of stian's comments?

<GK> But the owl:imports won't be visible to non-OWL applications.

<stainPhone> Yes, breaks rdfs

<tlebo> @pgroth can't we do both, and include a few prov assertions about how the concat was derived?

<GK> Dogfood!

pgroth: I can write up the 2 proposals and put onto the mailing list for discussions

<satya> slash instead of hash - fits with file system approach

<tlebo> I think we can work a reasonable solution out of these two imports/concat approaches.

<Luc> bye bye

<stainPhone> Redirect to a note which explains the diff modules

<khalidBelhajjame> bye

<dgarijo> bye!

<SamCoppens> bye

<TomDN> bye

<pgroth> trackbot, end telcon

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Paul/pgroth/
Succeeded: s/form/fork/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: jun
Found Scribe: Jun Zhao
Default Present: pgroth, jun, sandro, +1.315.330.aaaa, tlebo, Luc, +1.818.731.aabb, +44.131.467.aacc, khalidBelhajjame, [IPcaller], TomDN, SamCoppens, +44.789.470.aadd, dgarijo, GK, Satya_Sahoo
Present: pgroth jun sandro +1.315.330.aaaa tlebo Luc +1.818.731.aabb +44.131.467.aacc khalidBelhajjame [IPcaller] TomDN SamCoppens +44.789.470.aadd dgarijo GK Satya_Sahoo
Regrets: Curt Tilmes
Found Date: 05 Jul 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-prov-minutes.html
People with action items: