Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
29 Jun 2012


A brief exchange took place on attendance at F2F Meeting at TPAC. Registration was open. The EO Group will meet on Thursday and Friday. Wednesday Plenary session should also be interesting for those who can attend.

The group reviewed the topic of How People with Disabilities Use the Web. This is foreseen to be wrapped up by the end of July. Discussion revolved around Stories of Web Users and Shadi explained and considered some of the concerns around two particular stories, the order in which the stories are listed, plus terminology.

Brainstorming followed on the title change from "Diversity in Web Use" to another more explicit title.

Some time was spent on "WCAG Overview" and participants on the call were asked for their position. Attention was drawn that WCAG is not yet an ISO standard. W3C WAI will ensure sufficient publicity (media, blog, twitter) when this occurs.

Usually, an action item is not assigned to a person if they are not on the call. Shawn proposed that an exception be made and that action items would be assigned in the tracker for ALL active participants.

Shawn reminded everyone to check their individual action items and to update their Availability for Upcoming EOWG Teleconferences.


  1. TPAC Registration (EOWG meeting Thursday & Friday)
  2. How People with Disabilities Use the Web - discuss issues in How People Use the Web Notes wiki page
  3. WCAG Overview & FAQ updates - discuss issues in wiki pages
  4. Action item - discuss assigning actions for active participants to review docs for publication in July
  5. Reminder to update Availability for Upcoming EOWG Teleconference


Shawn, Vicki, Sharron, Shadi, Sylvie, +1.514.312.aaaa, Denis, Suzette, Ian
Andrew, Jennifer, Emmanuelle, Helle
Sharron, Denis, Vicki


TPAC Registration & EO Face to Face

Shawn: Registration is open. EO meets on Thursday and Friday

<Shawn> http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/#Registration

Shadi: Let me know if you want to attend on Monday and Tuesday. Might be interested in future work

Shawn: We might do a formal meeting with the Task Force. Might be a good time to discuss evaluation resources suite.

<Denis> no

<Vicki> yes

<Sylvie> maybe

Shawn: hard to predict where we will be but if possible, may want to try at least for Tuesday


<Suzette> not sure - anyone share a room

How People with Disabilities Use the Web

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/How_People_Use_the_Web_Notes#For_EOWG_discussion:

Shadi: Been working on this version for a while. Hope to have it wrapped up by end of July. Working through previous comments, including extensive ones from Shawn. Don't be too daunted by extensive notes, most are copy edited but a few need to be brought in for discussion.
... Today would like to focus on Diversity in Web Use and ?? Can we jump in. There is link to wiki page that captures issues for today' discussion.

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/stories

Shadi: Stories of Web Users is linked from wiki page let's consider this draft and the comments.
... first point on Ms. Laitinen. Should she be a fluent or not so fluent user of Braille?
... decided that her Braille use would be for very detailed work but not be as fluent a user.
... Any discussion of that decision - that she is less fluent and uses Brille as a check for detailed work like numbers, etc?

Sylvie: I agree that not all blind people are expert Braille users. But the connotation as it is seems negative. Perhaps a bit negative to say "she does not read very well"

Shawn: I can help with the wording, don't need to do it more.

Sylvie: You talk then about screen reader and refreshable Braille, but isn't that a contradiction if she doesn't read well?

Shadi: Can maybe say she reads Braille but prefers screen reading software.

Shawn: Maybe say mostly uses screen reader and occaisionally uses Braille.

Suzette: What would be the scenario where a user would fall back to Braille?

<Sylvie> I need to read it again.

sylvie: I'm afraid people will miss the point about her being able to read braille or not
... my problem is the sentence is too long and overcomplicated, maybe some little copy editing?

shadi: Helpful to confirm that the concept is wrong - i can see how it could be shortened
... thoughts from others?
... taking shawn's offer for some copy editing on this
... more ocnformtable to use text out speech than braille

shawn: The 1st one in the list is colour-blindness, not a particularly compelling example

shadi: Let's look at story order

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say (for later) colorblind first?

shadi: Next point is Ms. Kaseem
... in previous version, a deaf person who became legally blind
... story seemed a bit overstretched for some people
... remove the use of mobile device from the story and just bring the mobile device element to another story
... proposed resolution is to roll back to mobile and leave that as future wish list
... totally take mobile out of that story and create another one for mobile later

<Vicki> fine with me

shadi: the mobile bit doesn't fit well in there

shawn: I'm happy to revert to it and I trust shadi's judgement

<suzette> good to have mobile on wish list

I'm also fine with reverting

We should be very careful not to overcharge the stories so they remain credible

So whatever it is we need to take out, we should so it's doesn't look "too big"

do so*

shadi: It's much preferable to plan another story centred on mobile than try to ram it into an existing one

sylvie: I have internationalization concerns with this

<shawn> Sylvie: issue with "legally blind" internationally

<shawn> ... and issues with being able to see some

<shawn> [ Shawn knows in UK: "registered blind"]

sylvie: In europe, legally blind has their own criteria for recognizing someone who's blind and if we say she can see partially, it might throw peole off

<suzette> There is a wikipedia entry on blindness in US and EU

shadi: Should we even integrate the term legally blind in there?

I think we should leave the term out then

shawn: And focus on the fact that she has a visual disability (or tunnel vision) that would give it something specific to say
... i'm happy to help word smith this as well - the emphasis should be on visual condition

<Sylvie> +1 to Shawn

<shawn> ... Can say something like, which is considered legally blind in her country

shadi: Bottom line is - let's be careful with jargon and address deaf/blindness as a condition that's very important
... let's focus on explaining the condition, that's the real important part in this
... Next story - Miss Martinez
... another mobile concern

<Zakim> Shawn, you wanted to look *briefly* :-) at order of stories

shadi: Order of stories - should we change it?

shawn: Maybe not start with colour-blindness is the 1st story?

<Vicki> Good point Denis.

denis: We should align the order to at least fit in with the order and prioritization we made in the accessibility basics document

shadi: I don't seem much problem in having different orders for the stories as the documents have different purposes

<Vicki> Fine with me

denis: Let's avoid prioritizing the stories by how disabling the disabilities actually are

shadi: Let's continue with diversity in web use - 2 issues there: 1. the title (very similar titles - diversity of web users and web uses) and 2. conceptually, the page objectives seem kind of related
... both titles and topics are very related in appearance but not in the approach - we need to look at the overlap

<suzette> Suzette: I think the separation of the people from the tools and strategies worked OK

<suzette> Suzette: When the tab links are viewed in isolation they are too similar , I thought the second one should emphasis tools or strategies

<suzette> Suzette: So I think the title is the issue

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/How_People_Use_the_Web_Notes#Page_Title

<Sylvie> What about browsing strategies or different g strategies?browsing st

<Sylvie> Sorry: Different browsing strategies

shadi: Focus on tools and strategies

<suzette> Different Tools and strategies

<Sylvie> Too long

shawn: Assistive Technologies and Adaptive Strategies
... if ppl don't even understand what AT is, they could hardly understand what we're talking about

<shawn> Web wheelchairs :-)

<shawn> Hardware, software, and personal techniques

<shawn> Denis: Tools and strategies

suzette: User interaction is important, so are design solutions

<shawn> s/shawn: user interaction is important, so are design solutions/vicki: user interaction is important, so are design solutions/

<shawn> Vicki: user interaction is important, so are design solutions

<suzette> Zools and preferences (is the first subheading)

shawn: Tools and techniques?

sylvie: Techniques would be too similar, i would agree with tools and preferences

vicky: Tools and preferences would work

shadi: I like tools and preferences too

How about using the right tools?

shawn:Tools people use?

<shawn> Users' Tools and Techniques

shawn: Users, tools and techniques?

<shawn> Tools and Techniques Users Use :)

<shawn> Tools and Strategies

<shawn> Strategies for Web Use

shadi: I could go with either

<shawn> Tools and Strategies for Web Use (short version: Tools and Strategies)

1. Tools and Techniques

(cross that)

1. Tools and strategies

2. Strategies for web use

<suzette> +1 for strategies for web use

+1 for strategies for web use

<shawn> Configurations for Web Use

<Vicki> +1 for Tools and Strategies

<shawn> Tools and Cnfigurations

shawn: Let's bring these new suggestions in the wiki ... anything else?

<suzette> yes good work

WCAG Overview


<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WCAG_Overview_Revision_Draft_with_Comments


shawn: Let's start by looking at original wcag overview page

shawn: Look at the existing page and see if there are overall comments. look at specific scenario, one use case e.g. we sent out a press release saying that wcag 2.0 is now... etc. so somebody gets this and not particular familiar with wai or
... they follow the link and end up here. what overall comments would you have about this existing page?
... the page was designed a long time ago. is this page meeting the needs today?

denis: As regards the ref to iso, it looks something positive, but don't know what the wai position is

shawn: It is positive. ... The idea is just to look at how to improve this page overall

denis: Tempted to have the principles explained here.

sylvie: Maybe remove the older references to wcag 1. also, might confuse people if we talk about atag at the beginning

denis: In eval group, we have looked at a list for who wcag is intended for and we have a much more extensive list of people so maybe we should compare the two lists and see what we want to add.

ian: I think the iso section needs more but i understand that it needs to be finalized. Perhaps make it clearer that ISO is WCAG 2. First paragraph of "what is in the WCAG documents", perhaps it needs to be simpler. Content is spot on, just a friendlier style.

<suzette> Third paragraph starts What is in WCAG 2.0

shawn: It appears that moving ATAG and UUAG to the end is required.

sylvie: General comments: if WCAG is becoming ISO, something about translations should be mentioned. We need on the supporting docs that WAI plans to update, so maybe we should mention that we already have updates and maybe which updates could be found, i.e., more exhaustive about the techniques.

denis:On "who develops wcag". not sure that it's relevant to have the second and third paragraphs in this document.

shawn: I agree. I'll check on that.

suzette: In the menu list: there is something about "development process", can we not move some of that there.

shawn: Our continued message is that "you are welcome to contribute", maybe we need to find a shorter and more friendlier way to do this.

<suzette> Each of the pages on WCAG, ATAG and UAAG have the same piece on how it was developed

ian: Would it be mixing things up if we put that here. There already appears to be an overload of information. Now, asking people to also contribute, it might seem a little quick to contribute. They're not ready yet.

shawn: Yes, we'll look at this.
... In terms of your scheduling, at some point soon, ISO will be done. In case you see tweets etc., watch out for those. When it is ready, W3C and WAI will clearly announce it with press release, tweets, blog etc.
... if you have any more of the Overview page, please send them soon.
... the last agenda item is "Action items"

Action item

<shawn> Action item - discuss assigning actions for active participants to review docs for publication in July

shawn: We previously said that we do not assign actions unless people are on the call but I would like to propose that we make an exception in this case. I would like to propose that we assign action items in tracker for ALL active participants. Is that okay for everyone?

Denis, Suzette, Vicki are all okay

shawn: Great, no objections. Please update your availability for forthcoming meetings. 13th and 20th we may not meet. I will have several documents for review.

Bon weekend à tous!

Summary of Action Items

Shawn: to assign action items to ALL participants

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.136 (CVS log)
$Date: 2012/09/05 18:22:40 $