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<bhyland> trackbot, start telecon
<trackbot> Date: 28 June 2012
<olyerickson> mute me
<olyerickson> I'll scribe
<olyerickson> but need help
<olyerickson> at end
<olyerickson> scribe: olyerickson
others can help
Topic; New Members?
<deirdrelee> will brush up on scribing etiquette and will volunteer next time :)
No new members
<luisBermudez> aacc is me
<PhilA2> last week's minutes
sorry
Minutes accepted
<bhyland> +1
<PhilA2> +1
George: Good or bad idea?
+1
Many +1 to PROV engagement
bhyland: Most important group we liaze with, well-spent time to have PROV rep
george: will work with bhyland to engage with PROV and get overview for upcoming call
<PhilA2> ACTION: George to invite someone from the Prov WG to talk to one of our meetings [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-gld-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-72 - Invite someone from the Prov WG to talk to one of our meetings [on George Thomas - due 2012-07-05].
<deirdrelee> will do
PhilA: Introduction of ????
<PhilA2> ADMS NS doc
<cygri> this is vassilios: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/vassilios-peristeras/2/722/911
PhilA: ADMS: Asset Description Metadata Specification
* Upcoming doc that GLD will be asked to take on
<PhilA2> ADMS spec
* Lengthy doc (above) is complete
* PhilA aims to create more W3S-like version/summary of doc
* ADMS has its own controlled vocab for status of things...W3C GLD will not take on ISA terminology
* Doesn't want to take controlled vocab issue on now, but GLD must deal with in future
* PhilA plan: create version that is closer to W3C norm, then GLD can take up discussion
<PhilA2> Official EC site
<PhilA2> W3C notes on ADMS
* W3C RDF description of TR space --- every working draft, last call, yada-yada
* Other stds groups are trying to create similar offerings, having troubles
DaveReynolds: Has found erros in RDF, how to submit feedback?
* mentions specific errors as examples
* does PhilA want comments back, and how? Grateful for feedback
bhyland: PhilA take time to explain; what is the infrastructure being used? Lots of work represented/ How can others be engaged to share the burden
PhilA2: Two other things of note
* One is ADMS
* One is DCAT
* But one is related to software ???
* But software not related to core work of GLD
<PhilA2> RADion
* This led to recognition of common elements of ADMS, DCAT, Software: that's RADion (see link above)
* See UML on page above
* PhilA showed to Irina (CKAN); her comment, "that's the kind of (simplified) model we had in mind"
* Should subclass the DCAT (et al) structure
* See ADMS in the same light as DCAT
* PhilA wants to pause to receive comments
George: Make sure we capture proposal
<PhilA2> My proposal is that ADMS is handled along with RADion and DCAT as being "all of a piece"
<PhilA2> i.e. the same space, same people, same thinking
George: "All of a piece?"
bhyland: Not sure she really understands what is being proposed
PhilA2: Means, thinking about everything as part of the same thing...ie those considering DCAT also take on ADMS and RADion
* RADion not to be seen as stand-alone
<bhyland> For the record: "The Repository Asset Distribution (RADion) was developed under the European Commission's http://ec.europa.eu/isa/ . This is the namespace document, generated from the associated RDF schema. Full documentation is provided in the https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/asset/radion/description specification document itself. This includes background information, use cases, the conceptual model and full definitions for all terms used."
* Recalls Brussels "break-out" discussion...results of that was realization that Basque, Austrians have created their own vocabs
* void, DCAT don't convey all they they want/need to convey
<bhyland> @PhilA, So do I get this right … RADion is a meta meta dataset description for open gov data of different linguistic sets??
* PhilA2 sees those also using RADion --- just a useful bit of structure
bhyland: RADion is a namespace/"placeholder' --- multiple-purpose, meta-meta
PhilA2: just a diagram, to be sub-classed, engineering of derivatives would be consistent
bhyland: ... Maybe this represents a natural evolution
(popping the queue...)
<PhilA2> cygri: Note also schema.org conversation is relevant. They're looking at dataset descriptions too
<mhausenblas> --> http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Datasets
<PhilA2> ... we should not duplicate schema.org
<George> cygri: plenty of 'upper vocabularies' to choose from - schema.org alignment as example dujour
* make sure that what ever we do, is designed with schema.org considerd as well
* schema.org may also eventually consider such a core/high-level model
* make sure we align
<deirdrelee> I wanted to ask, as the vienna example is a clear use-case to justify RADion, do you have feedback from Vienna group on RADion - does it address their needs as a higher-level vocabulary?
<deirdrelee> i'm having problem with skype microphone
DaveReynolds: thinks he gets what PhilA is saying, but how will it work in practice?
* still needs to be reviewed
<deirdrelee> i pasted question to irc
* don't understand how extended radion works in practice
PhilA2: trying not to create more work
* still "up in the air"
<deirdrelee> thanks
* in terms of process, EC-related work is "complete" and now testing against implementation
* direct experience, review is critical
DaveReynolds: Is simply looking for guidance on how to extend RADion
<deirdrelee> ok
bhyland: Fundamental question: When we discussed ADMS ca. Dec, "we don't want to create new vocabs"
* feels like RADion is "meta ADMS"
* concern: adding layers of work
* Shouldn't this align with Max/Andrea/PhilA's work align with schema.org work?
* "They" are about clear description of what/how webmasters should be doing this
* Seems like this effort should align?
* Secondly: DCAT, etc represent big effort; won't have similar effort for remainder of ISA vocabs
PhilA2: Clear that this should be aligned with schema.org; follows public-vocabs list
* May be that schema.org has it covered
* w.r.t. GLD, PhilA of large amount of work put upon small amount of people, aware of strain
bhyland: where does RADion fit wrt rest of ISA program
PhilA2: Notes that (a) we are trying to get more participants, and (b) there are people who want to join, esp. to participate in GLD
<bhyland> I hear there was considerable interest by several new prospects into the GLD WG @ the Brussels conference.
* RADion is *intended* to make things easier, but if it doesn't...
PhilA2: Expects more time dedicated to this in near future
bhyland: Sees need for "committee" of people involved in vocabs to see if this is appropriate
* esp for our target stakeholders
George: We've gone over our allotted time for ISA-related
* time to switch to ADMS/DCAT discussion
<PhilA2> Person
<George> agree with points bhyland was making/requesting
Subtopic: Person Vocabulary
<PhilA2> Location
* has had most negative attention
Subtopic: Location
* Lots of attention, esp. from geospatial
* PhilA conversations with OCG, INSPIRE, other
* Upcoming call with W3C and several other geospatial stakeholders, including GeoSparql etc
* how do/will these things come together
<bhyland> @DaveReynolds, @cygri, @mhausenblas … how does this work in W3C WGs where we need focused dive on whether yet-another-vocab that describes data set metadata makes sense? If this is a natural evolution as people do real work, great, let's give it due consideration. I personally don't have the expertise to make a call so some "committee" with people from this WG or outside, that do, may be in a better position.
* how will it be done? Not sure --- that's what the conversation is about
* PhilA to report back
<PhilA2> Business vocab
Subtopic: Business Vocabulary
* specific use case for describing companies in registries
<PhilA2> -> http://opencorporates.com/companies/gb/04285910.rdf Open Corporates implementation http://opencorporates.com/companies/gb/04285910.rdf
* OpenCorporates/Chris Taggert has been involved in implementing
* Designed to be subclass of Org contology, not to replace
* speaking to Belgian business registry Friday
<PhilA2> http://www.w3.org/ns/person
Again: We are committed to taking these on, the question is *how* do we execute
* PhilA needs GLD permission to replace "holding" docs with more permanent forms
George: Time for us to get more serious
* Any other comments on the above?
<DaveReynolds> Should be a formal vote
PhilA2: Point of order: needs answer to his question: ok to publish those schemas?
<bhyland> @PhilA2 - what are the ramifications of publishing all these vocabs in the w3 ns as an editor's draft??
<cygri> which ones exactly?
<DaveReynolds> I will abstain rather than object
<bhyland> I'm not prepared to vote ...
<PhilA2> proposal is to publish schemas for Radion, Person, Location and Besiness
Any objects to PhilA going forward with namespaces to core vocabs as describved?
<bhyland> need more info.
<PhilA2> http://philarcher.org/isa/business-v1.00.html
Person, Location, Business core vocabularies
<PhilA2> http://philarcher.org/isa/locn-v1.00.html
<PhilA2> http://philarcher.org/isa/person-v1.00.html
<bhyland> I feel this is too rushed, I'm sorry
<PhilA2> http://philarcher.org/isa/radion_v1.1.html
PhilA2: Moving from "holding pages" to "official" pages
<deirdrelee> how would this relate to the Person and Organisation deliverables in the GLD workspace?
bhyland: What will the status be? What does it mean?
<bhyland> No standing, just a document in the W3 website.
<George> like this - http://www.w3.org/ns/adms
PhilA2: No formal standing. Simply a document on the W3C web site (see above example for ADMS)
<bhyland> abstain
cygri: What have been our previous decisions on the three core vocabs?
* Have decisions been made about potential publication?
* Previous conversation involving GLD leaders with jeff jaffry, etc, and pattern match with GLD charter was found
bhyland: There was acknowledgement that this represents good work, bridge between ISA and W3C seen,
* also recognizes that there is an ISA deadline
* And recognizes that GLD is becoming highly visible
* But concerned about rushing and/over over-extending GLD WG
* not comfortable commenting
George: None of this is new; we have followed suite with ADMS
<deirdrelee> @PhilA2: should the person and business core vocabularies be somehow linked (even theoretically if not at concept level) to the Person and Organisation deliverables in the GLD workspace to avoid confusion
* yet we seem to not have concensus at this moment
unmute me
DaveReynolds: retracts his abstention
* specific concern over Business core vocab
* has a definite caution that Business vocab be rigorously reviewed
cygri: Input goes into vocab design from different directions
* sort-of unclear what the ownership is of these things
* what is implied by the steps being taken (proposed) now
<bhyland> cygri: Issues around process, owners for the purposes of maintenance, and W3 namespace
* e.g. are we thereby agreeing to publish a document based on these?
George: These are also the questions that Bhyland had
PhilA2: Perceived meaning vs actual meaning
* There is work going on around Europe
* GLD has control
* GLD has complete right to change whatever it likes/needs to
PhilA2: Supposes he should get on with create docs that describe these vocabs
cygri: Initial reaction was, oh well these look okay
<bhyland> @PhilA, what does control mean really? Makx and Andrea aren't members of this GLD. Are you able to own this do the remaining heavy lifting?
<PhilA2> @bhyland. Yes. Although Andrea may well be joining the group (he helped with POWDER and is in the INSPIRE team at the EC)
<PhilA2> cygri: Concerned about scope creep. Unconvinced that RADion is necessary or desirable
<bhyland> cygri: not comfortable giving approval at this time to RADion. Has concerns about scope creep.
<PhilA2> scribe: PhilA2
cygri: Doesn't seem to make sense to allocated URIs
PhilA2: Very grateful for the comments received
<bhyland> +1 to cygri's comments. Please don't take this to mean 'no', it means we need a bit more time to digest and have a sensible discussion on how it fits.
PhilA2: And I apologise for taking up the whole meeting
<bhyland> Please take this as a positive sign that we care & want to ensure it is 'right' as we go foward.
George: No consensus reached.
Look to regroup on DCAT in July
... And to tackle Rufus and Ed Summers' input
... Thanks PhilA2 for building the bridge with ISA
<bhyland> @George, please highlight the July/Aug summer schedule …
<bhyland> Proposed: 2012-08-30
<bhyland> 2012-08-23
<bhyland> 2012-08-16 - NO MEETING (summer schedule)
<bhyland> 2012-08-09
<bhyland> 2012-08-02 - NO MEETING (summer schedule)
<bhyland> 2012-07-26 http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Bernadette_Hyland (on holiday)
<bhyland> 2012-07-19 - NO MEETING (summer schedule)
<bhyland> 2012-07-12
<bhyland> 2012-07-05 http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Dave_Reynolds
<cygri> PhilA2, I hadn't quite realized that the intention was to take RADion into GLD, so didn't really pay enough attention to it when you started talking about it. i'll have some reading about it to do now.
<bhyland> I pulled from regrets page which is why the names are inserted … sorry.
<BenediktKaempgen> bye
George: rrsagent, make logs public
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