<trackbot> Date: 29 March 2012

<ed> and agenda+ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0187.html

<cyril> +Present: Nikos

<scribe> scribeNick: krit

Finishing SVG 2 reuirements

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0175.html

cyril: I have an issue

heycam: I have an action for the first item
... not done yet
... action number: 3251

<ed> ACTION-3251

ed: what about smil time containers?

heycam: yes, let's take a look at that
... I am happy about brians efforts

ed: any concerns?

shepazu: I suspect MS might have concerns but they are not here

heycam: I thing it is the full smil time container

cyril: he doesn't want elements but attributes

<cyril> +nikos

<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Auckland_2011/Animation_improvements#Issue:_SMIL_is_greatly_complicated_by_syncbase_timing

resolution: SVG 2.0 requirement: support SMIL time containers

cyril: we want the feature of smil time containers, but not necessarily the element iteself

heycam: "Consider adding a 'key()' keyword for animation triggers"
... You can just get a single character no a key. Not good defined

cyril: don't think that this is an issue
... I discussed security issues with brian on accessKeys
... SVG integration of accessKeys might be modified to address security issues

ed: we should come up with a proposal that adresses security issues

resolution: SVG 2 requirement:Consider adding a 'key()' keyword for animation triggers and addressing security issues

krit: timelineBegin attribute on <svg> element next?
... even for inner SVG elements?

cyril: we should not speack about documents but time container
... we can start new time containers anywhere. We should talk about that after we have time container
... Oh, I think timlineBegin should only be on the document

<cyril> see syncBehavior to control the timeline of a time container

heycam: you might not want to wait for document load end to start animations

krit: I think it should be part of the time container

heycam: it might make sense to start animations on a time container before the content is fully loaded

<cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Run-time_Synchronization_attributes

cyril: I think we already have a resolution.

heycam: it was more about synchronizing media

cyril: i don't think so
... e.g if you have video and audio that could differ from the timeline of the document
... I agree with the request, we should define whne the timeLine begins

heycam: Well, I am fine with it

resolution: SVG2 will support a means for having SMIL animations start before their time container has fully loaded

heycam: The <discard> element

ed: to throw away elements based on animations. Good for big files on streaming

cyril: use case is still valid
... there might be issues on scripting the <discard> elements
... we should fix that
... have you implemented it?

ed: yes, opera implements the <discard> element

heycam: brian seems not to be opposed to it

ed: can we resolve requirements?

resolution: SVG 2 will have <discard> element to declaratively discard elements from the document tree

cyril: The 'playbackOrder' attribute on the<svg> element next

<cyril> If 'playbackOrder' is set to 'forwardOnly', the content will probably contain 'discard' elements or scripts that destroy resources, thus seeking back in the document's timeline may result in missing content.

heycam: more important for the UI controls

<cyril> Similarly the UA should disable any controls it may provide in the user interface for seeking backwards.

<cyril> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/struct.html#SVGElementPlaybackOrderAttribute

ed: not sure ahow important the attribute is
... a lot of shoulds and mays

cyril: should you revert the elements?
... we could use plabackOrder also with scripts

heycam: it might be useful if UIs have some build in controls
... does flash have it?
... you didn't implement this attribute yet?

cyril: no

ed: no, Opera either
... might only be useful for UIs
... not sure if the wording is so great either

<cyril> resolution: SVG 2 should support the playbackOrder attribute to inform UA to not display controls to seek backwards

ed: we have all the things

SVG next phase

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Commitments

krit: At adobe we will most likely specialise on glyphs and fonts, discussion is still going on

ed: I don't want to sign up for to many at this point
... I might sing up for a couple more

cyril: I haven't discussed it yet with colleagues

heycam: I have a bunch of them
... most of them will be align with html5

<cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page#Milestones

cyril: We should do as much as possible till april to publish first WD till July
... And then make a second round for missing requirments

heycam: july is the first step
... and then straight to last call in january

shepazu: We should have as much as possible but should go out with what we have
... the first WD should have the new things in it
... we focus on the new stuff
... people are more interessted in the new stuff than what SVG 1.1 has

<cyril> I think we need to do 3 things: freeze the commitments, start editing the spec to add the annotations for this first set of reqs and then start receiving proposals

<cyril> and evaluating them

resolution: Commitments on SVG parts we want to work on will be frozen by next week

extract part of an SVG image by its id

shepazu: I send an email with the conversation that I have with fantasai
... you all have read
... media fragment spec let you point to different parts of document you want

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0189.html has some examples I cooked up, using ids for selecting parts of an svg "spritemap"

shepazu: think about a use element can point to an element in SVG and just wants to show this one
... an CSS image would access that
... we had one use case in SVG for navigation
... fantasai proposes what a fragment is in SVG 2 and what to do when the UA points to that

<TabAtkins> Fantasai's point that SVG just needs to define what a hash *represents* is sufficient. We can take over from there. But defining it as representing "navigate/scale/whatever the viewport" isn't useful.

shepazu: what is the navigation behavior

<TabAtkins> And then you can say that the default behavior is to navigate to the referenced element.

<ed> http://dahlström.net/tmp/sharp-icons/svg-icon-target.svg#chart

<ed> http://dahlström.net/tmp/sharp-icons/svg-icon-target.svg#plus

ed: it should work in FF as well

<ed> it works in all browsers

heycam: one use viewBox on the target and two hide the other ones

<shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/sprites.svg

heycam: most document just gone have a part of an image with an ID. There won't be an viewBox arround it

ed: what eric did works fin here.

<heycam> would like to know how this relates to <view> -- <view> is kind of indirect, so this would provide the same/similar functionality but be simpler?

<cyril> and #svgView()

<TabAtkins> woo

shepazu: if we get auhtoring tools to support this than we are fine

<ed> http://dahlström.net/tmp/sharp-icons/svg-icon.svg#chart

<ed> this alternative uses <view> elements to define the viewboxes

heycam: you have to define a viewBox

<ed> ... and lacks the display:none things, which could be added of course, similarly to http://dahlström.net/tmp/sharp-icons/svg-icon-target.svg#chart

shepazu: currentyl the SVG 1.1 says that its simple goes to view port of the SVG anchetor of this elements
... you just have the svg root

krit: I saw eriks solution some times, mostly for zooming

shepazu: eirks solution is a good interim solution

cyril: just want to confirm the next F2F meetings

<ed> Seattle, USA, 25-27 July, 2012

cyril: what is the next one?
... TPAC, SVG open?

next svg f2f meetings

shepazu: this is the last SVG Open
... would be good to have on f2f at SVG open

cyril: can you attend to TPAC and SVG open?

Tav: figure it out

SVG functionality in Canvas

krit: I was surprised about the SVG path stuff in Canvas

heycam: I think he wants to make sure that path or matrix work well or at least similar as the SVG one

shepazu: hixie asked SVG WG to review it before he lands stuff
... but now he published it
... I think we should review what is there and send coments

<heycam> http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2012-March/035239.html

shepazu: I suggest to mail the comments to the canvas mailing list, svg mailing list and hixie

<TabAtkins> Yes, please. "Publishing" does not in any way imply it's frozen (until implementations emerge).

The SVG stuff in Canvas so far: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#path-objects

shepazu: SVG WG should be involved in how SVG error handling works

heycam: I will review it

shepazu: thats enought for now
... can we start with these topics on next meeting minutes?

<cyril> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#hit-regions

shepazu: next f2f over emails and telcom times on next meeting

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/resolution: SVG 2 should specify when timeline starts. (maybe by a timeLine attribute)/resolution: SVG2 will support a means for having SMIL animations start before their time container has fully loaded/
Succeeded: s/yes, think so/yes, opera implements the <discard> element/
Succeeded: s/ti/it/
Succeeded: s/<discard> elements to discard/<discard> element to declaratively discard/
Succeeded: s/oper/Opera/
Found ScribeNick: krit
Inferring Scribes: krit

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
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        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0185.html
Found Date: 29 Mar 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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