<trackbot> Date: 20 February 2012

<krit> 1:04

<krit> ?

<krit> :)

<krit> I fear that my microphone is not working

<krit> I have to rely on IRC

<krit> The only open issue on Transforms for SVG is how to animate CSS transform property with SMIL

<dino> people?

<krit> I try to call in from another phone...

<scribe> scribenick: cabanier

linearRGB vs sRGB for filter effects

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0078.html

cabanier: I wanted Chris to be here to have this discussion
... I understand why it's there, I don't think it's the default

ed: should we postpone?

cabanier: let's postpone

SVG attributes to presentation attributes

krit: did you get my email about how to animate CSS attributes with SMIL
... ed, you said you needed feedback from the development team

<krit> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute

<krit> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_animVal

<ed> ed: yes, sent offlist, but basically in agreement with the proposal

krit: SMIL animation would be on top of the current CSS animations

ed: the computed style would reflect animval?
... what is your recommendation?

krit: 1. override style reflects current animations
... 2. Introduce a new style for SVG animations
... and the computed style would reflect this new style. could be called SMIL style

cabanier: do you think the model are compatible?

krit: yes, I think so

cabanier: so they run independantly?

krit: yes

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Current_presentation_attributes_in_the_CSS_cascading

<ed> ed: so is that image i just linked to correct now?

ed: do we want to wait for corrections to the proposal?

krit: the wiki is up to date

cabanier: do you know what the new style is?

krit: it's an abstract style that is implemented by the browser

ed: animVal becomes a shorthand for getcomputedstyle but with typing. You skip the string serialization
... that is fine with me

resolution: issue #4 is accepted from wiki: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_animVal

<ed> to be clear, the solution is to introduce a new style for SVG animations, as described there

ed: are there other transform issues?

krit: we want to move to WD as soon as possible
... I believe it will be done this week

smfr: are we going to remove the DOM access methods?

<smfr> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/#dom-interfaces

krit: yes

smfr: CSS matrix, CSS transform value

krit: and we'll have another discussion on FX, or SVG
... it doesn't affect CSS any more

ed: how so?

krit: that is because CSS matrix is removed

and we no longer have to describe how SVG and CSS interface

cabanier: and the new keywords are accepted by the CSS people? (such as rotate(alpha, a, b)

krit: yes
... the discussion on that has stopped

smfr: and transform-origin is defined for SVG?

krit: yes, for SVG it will be (0, 0)

smfr: the rotate with two parameters gives the author more to think about
... these 2 optional arguments may make it less clear about what is happening
... the rules are already complex

smft: and no browsers currently implement it yet

krit: these are just 2 arguments to align the CSS and SVG models
... for current authors, it might be new
... but it's needed for backward compatibility with SVG parsing rules?

ed: when is the WD ready?

krit: depends on the CSS WG

ed: yes, I pinged them when they can make their resolution
... let's skip the next topics since we need input from Microsoft and they are not here

shepazu: about the transform spec, there were 12 topics called out, are we going to resolve it?

<smfr> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=CSS&component=Transforms&resolution=---

krit: the WG draft spec doesn't say that all issues have to be resolved

shepazu: yes, but we better get start on this
... I've been talking to authors and they want different origins with a set of transforms

krit: I don't think we want to support that for CSS3 transforms

shepazu: that means it won't be there for 2-3 years at least

krit: correct

shepazu: what about tests? Aryeh has some test I believe

krit: Adobe is working on SVG inside of webkit and we're working on some tests

Tav: but you need 2 working implementations for the tests

ed: do you have the test working in a web template or using the CSS WG testing harnass?

krit: no, they are just WebKit test but we can move them to W3C tests

ed: the csswg testsuite guidelines say that they don't accept SVG test. You need a HMTL wrapper
... the tools don't support straight SVG

krit: inline SVG should be possible

shepazu: we should have both: inline and straight SVG
... do we need 2 passing tests for HTML but do we need 2 passing test for SVG as well?

smfr: we talked about different conformance classes in the spec. Not sure what the status is.

shepazu: what is the status of the 2d/3d spec?

smfr: I agree with tantek
... the major interop issues should be resolved
... agree that we should move to last call

shepazu: not sure what LC accomplishes if we still have open issues

smfr: tantek believes that they want to drop prefixes as soon as possible

shepazu: but we don't have conforming implementations right?
... what does dropping prefixes have to do with LC?

smfr: well, the sooner you do LC the faster you can go the CR

shepazu: isn't it more reasonable to agree on when to drop prefixes than to rush the spec?

ed: I agree

shepazu: if there is a full test suite that tests each feature and everyone passes is, at that point you can drop prefixes
... his goal is putting the horse behind the cart.

smft: this was discussed at length. It's been covered already

<dino> read the thousands of emails

smfr: I believe tantek's proposal was similar to yours

shepazu: I will read up on the process and take it to the list

<smfr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0528.html

shepazu: I want to move this forward faster
... we've been talking about this at w3c and we want to move forward on this spec asap too
... let us know if you need help

yes

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Found ScribeNick: cabanier
Inferring Scribes: cabanier
Default Present: Doug_Schepers, Tav, +1.408.881.aabb, hober, dino, ed, cabanier, dirk, +1.408.636.aacc, smfr
Present: Doug_Schepers Tav +1.408.881.aabb hober dino ed cabanier dirk +1.408.636.aacc smfr shepazu rik tav
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0100.html

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Found Date: 20 Feb 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-fx-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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