14:56:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/14-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/14-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:56:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:56:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:56:46 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes ←
14:56:47 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:56:47 <trackbot> Date: 14 March 2012
14:57:31 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started ←
14:57:32 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.861.aaaa ←
14:57:39 <Zakim> +Tony
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony ←
14:57:45 <gavinc> Zakim, aaaa is me
Gavin Carothers: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
14:57:45 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it ←
14:58:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:58:05 <Zakim> +sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro ←
14:58:13 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me ←
14:58:13 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:59:22 <ScottB> Zakim, Tony is temporarily me
Scott Bauer: Zakim, Tony is temporarily me ←
14:59:22 <Zakim> +ScottB; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ScottB; got it ←
15:00:03 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
15:00:44 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aabb ←
15:00:52 <AlexHall> zakim, aabb is me
Alex Hall: zakim, aabb is me ←
15:00:52 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it ←
15:00:58 <Zakim> +Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus ←
15:01:37 <Zakim> + +1.213.271.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.213.271.aacc ←
15:01:48 <AZ> zakim, aacc is me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, aacc is me ←
15:01:52 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:02:35 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
15:02:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see ScottB, gavinc, AndyS, sandro, Arnaud, AlexHall, Guus, AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ScottB, gavinc, AndyS, sandro, Arnaud, AlexHall, Guus, AZ ←
15:02:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see LeeF, AlexHall, Arnaud, SteveH, AZ, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, pchampin, Guus, ScottB, danbri, AndyS_, yvesr, NickH, trackbot, mdmdm, manu, manu1, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see LeeF, AlexHall, Arnaud, SteveH, AZ, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, pchampin, Guus, ScottB, danbri, AndyS_, yvesr, NickH, trackbot, mdmdm, manu, manu1, sandro, ericP ←
15:03:28 <pchampin> stuck in my previous meeting, can not dial in for the moment, sorry
Pierre-Antoine Champin: stuck in my previous meeting, can not dial in for the moment, sorry ←
15:03:46 <Zakim> +??P41
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P41 ←
15:03:53 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P41 is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P41 is me ←
15:03:56 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
15:04:57 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
15:05:48 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:05:48 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2 ←
15:06:31 <Zakim> +zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2 ←
15:06:39 <zwu2> zakim, mute me
15:06:39 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should now be muted ←
15:06:45 <danbri> regrets from me; on a trip
Dan Brickley: regrets from me; on a trip ←
15:07:09 <AlexHall> i'll scribe.
15:07:34 <AlexHall> scribe: alexhall
(Scribe set to Alex Hall)
15:07:45 <AlexHall> topic: Admin
15:08:30 <AlexHall> guus: PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of the 7 Mar telecon
Guus Schreiber: PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of the 7 Mar telecon ←
15:08:31 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink] ←
15:08:39 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me ←
15:08:39 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:08:41 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:08:41 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:08:43 <AlexHall> RESOLVED: to accept the minutes of the 7 Mar telecon
RESOLVED: to accept the minutes of the 7 Mar telecon ←
15:09:52 <AlexHall> topic: Action Item review
15:10:04 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open ←
15:10:12 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←
15:10:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see ScottB, gavinc, AndyS, sandro, Arnaud (muted), AlexHall, Guus, AZ, SteveH, EricP, zwu2 (muted), MacTed (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ScottB, gavinc, AndyS, sandro, Arnaud (muted), AlexHall, Guus, AZ, SteveH, EricP, zwu2 (muted), MacTed (muted) ←
15:10:57 <AlexHall> sandro: nobody here has open action item
Sandro Hawke: nobody here has open action item ←
15:11:37 <AlexHall> ... (aside from guus and sandro, and these aren't done).
... (aside from guus and sandro, and these aren't done). ←
15:11:39 <Zakim> +cgreer
Zakim IRC Bot: +cgreer ←
15:12:02 <AlexHall> guus: reminder, 1 hour earlier for europeans next week, then back to regular schedule
Guus Schreiber: reminder, 1 hour earlier for europeans next week, then back to regular schedule ←
15:12:05 <AlexHall> topic: Turtle
15:12:37 <ericP> ISSUE-67: \xxxx escaping in prefixed names
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ISSUE-67: \xxxx escaping in prefixed names ←
15:12:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-67 \xxxx escaping in prefixed names notes added
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-67 \xxxx escaping in prefixed names notes added ←
15:13:16 <AlexHall> guus: would like to close issue 67 before moving on
Guus Schreiber: would like to close ISSUE-67 before moving on ←
15:13:38 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes
Gavin Carothers: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes ←
15:13:49 <AlexHall> eric: text has been committed to hg
Eric Prud'hommeaux: text has been committed to hg ←
15:13:52 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
15:14:18 <AlexHall> ... believe this text addresses that by saying \uxxxx is a numeric escape, and that these are allowed in IRIs but not in other places
... believe this text addresses that by saying \uxxxx is a numeric escape, and that these are allowed in IRIs but not in other places ←
15:14:59 <AndyS> Strings?
Andy Seaborne: Strings? ←
15:15:04 <AlexHall> guus: add link to minutes where we discussed this in the issue notes, close the issue
Guus Schreiber: add link to minutes where we discussed this in the issue notes, close the issue ←
15:16:26 <AlexHall> gavin: we do allow numeric escapes in strings, this disagrees with the text
Gavin Carothers: we do allow numeric escapes in strings, this disagrees with the text ←
15:17:16 <AlexHall> eric: history is that richard didn't want escapes in prefix names, claimed it needlessly complicated things
Eric Prud'hommeaux: history is that richard didn't want escapes in prefix names, claimed it needlessly complicated things ←
15:17:18 <AlexHall> q+
q+ ←
15:17:22 <AndyS> SPARQL allows \u in strings (and local parts for that matter). Must keep strings.
Andy Seaborne: SPARQL allows \u in strings (and local parts for that matter). Must keep strings. ←
15:18:08 <AlexHall> ... thought we agreed to eliminate escapes from prefix names to align with SPARQL
... thought we agreed to eliminate escapes from prefix names to align with SPARQL ←
15:18:33 <AlexHall> andy: unicode numeric escapes allowed in IRIs, strings, local part of prefix names in SPARQL
Andy Seaborne: unicode numeric escapes allowed in IRIs, strings, local part of prefix names in SPARQL ←
15:19:06 <Guus> q?
Guus Schreiber: q? ←
15:19:35 <AlexHall> ... they are needed in IRIs and strings to account for N-Triples
... they are needed in IRIs and strings to account for N-Triples ←
15:19:43 <Guus> ack AlexHall
Guus Schreiber: ack AlexHall ←
15:20:27 <gavinc> AlexHall: I thought the original disagreement was to allow numeric escapes in prefix names. I thought we agreed not to do that, but allow the reserved char escapes.
Alex Hall: I thought the original disagreement was to allow numeric escapes in prefix names. I thought we agreed not to do that, but allow the reserved char escapes. [ Scribe Assist by Gavin Carothers ] ←
15:21:41 <AndyS> As of today's grammar update \u is not permitted in SPARQL local names.
Andy Seaborne: As of today's grammar update \u is not permitted in SPARQL local names. ←
15:21:52 <gavinc> AlexHall: I thought we'd agreed that numeric escapes should not be allowed in local names
Alex Hall: I thought we'd agreed that numeric escapes should not be allowed in local names [ Scribe Assist by Gavin Carothers ] ←
15:22:42 <AlexHall> andy: preference is to allow numeric escapes in IRIs and strings for SPARQL
Andy Seaborne: preference is to allow numeric escapes in IRIs and strings for SPARQL ←
15:22:54 <gavinc> PROPOSAL: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes should be reflected in the grammar
PROPOSED: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes should be reflected in the grammar ←
15:23:54 <AlexHall> sandro: are qnames/prefixed names allowed in n-triples?
Sandro Hawke: are qnames/prefixed names allowed in n-triples? ←
15:24:21 <AlexHall> gavin: no, they are not, but part of the grammar is in there as bnode labels
Gavin Carothers: no, they are not, but part of the grammar is in there as bnode labels ←
15:24:59 <AlexHall> ... use cases for having numeric escapes in IRI/string literals is to support people with ASCII-only editors
... use cases for having numeric escapes in IRI/string literals is to support people with ASCII-only editors ←
15:25:30 <AlexHall> ... and to support existing documents to be used unchanged
... and to support existing documents to be used unchanged ←
15:26:35 <sandro> I'm surprised to see \\ is not a reserved character escape sequence.
Sandro Hawke: I'm surprised to see \\ is not a reserved character escape sequence. ←
15:27:10 <PatH> Apologies for lateness, dialling in ASAP.
Patrick Hayes: Apologies for lateness, dialling in ASAP. ←
15:27:32 <AlexHall> alexhall: the turtle grammar does not match the sparql grammar for prefixed names
Alex Hall: the turtle grammar does not match the sparql grammar for prefixed names ←
15:27:37 <sandro> PatH, no worries, we just talking about character escaping in Turtle at the moment.
Sandro Hawke: PatH, no worries, we just talking about character escaping in Turtle at the moment. ←
15:28:10 <PatH> Oh then I might just go back to bed...
Patrick Hayes: Oh then I might just go back to bed... ←
15:28:28 <sandro> +0 either way is fine with me
Sandro Hawke: +0 either way is fine with me ←
15:28:32 <AlexHall> guus: think we've talked enough about this, can we go ahead and make a proposal?
Guus Schreiber: think we've talked enough about this, can we go ahead and make a proposal? ←
15:28:40 <gavinc> PROPOSAL: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes should be reflected in the grammar. Eg, remove \u escaping from Prefixed Local Names
PROPOSED: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes should be reflected in the grammar. Eg, remove \u escaping from Prefixed Local Names ←
15:28:49 <sandro> PatH, I think we're almost done, the'll we'll be ready to argue with you.
Sandro Hawke: PatH, I think we're almost done, the'll we'll be ready to argue with you. ←
15:28:52 <sandro> +0 either way is fine with me
Sandro Hawke: +0 either way is fine with me ←
15:28:58 <ericP> +0 want consensus
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +0 want consensus ←
15:29:19 <gavinc> +1 for text agreeing with grammar
Gavin Carothers: +1 for text agreeing with grammar ←
15:29:59 <AlexHall> RESOLVED: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes should be reflected in the grammar. Eg, remove \u escaping from Prefixed Local Name
RESOLVED: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes should be reflected in the grammar. Eg, remove \u escaping from Prefixed Local Name ←
15:30:34 <gavinc> ACTION gavinc to fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names
Gavin Carothers: ACTION gavinc to fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names ←
15:30:34 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - gavinc
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - gavinc ←
15:30:40 <gavinc> ACTION Gavin to fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names
Gavin Carothers: ACTION Gavin to fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names ←
15:30:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-150 - Fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-03-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-150 - Fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-03-21]. ←
15:31:18 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:31:21 <AlexHall> guus: moving on to issue 74, that seemed to be mostly editorial?
Guus Schreiber: moving on to ISSUE-74, that seemed to be mostly editorial? ←
15:31:37 <AlexHall> eric: yes, andy gavin and i talked and came to consensus
Eric Prud'hommeaux: yes, andy gavin and i talked and came to consensus ←
15:31:38 <AndyS> I changed SPARQL draft today. (Please check.)
Andy Seaborne: I changed SPARQL draft today. (Please check.) ←
15:31:44 <gavinc> ACTION Gavin to update issue 74 with new escaping rules
Gavin Carothers: ACTION Gavin to update ISSUE-74 with new escaping rules ←
15:31:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-151 - Update issue 74 with new escaping rules [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-03-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-151 - Update ISSUE-74 with new escaping rules [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-03-21]. ←
15:31:59 <AlexHall> guus: next issue...
Guus Schreiber: next issue... ←
15:32:48 <gavinc> ACTION Gavin Create new issue for :'s in the local part of prefix names
Gavin Carothers: ACTION Gavin Create new issue for :'s in the local part of prefix names ←
15:32:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-152 - Create new issue for :'s in the local part of prefix names [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-03-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-152 - Create new issue for :'s in the local part of prefix names [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-03-21]. ←
15:32:57 <sandro> ericP, the link you want now works: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-03-14#resolution_1
Sandro Hawke: ericP, the link you want now works: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-03-14#resolution_1 ←
15:33:36 <AlexHall> guus: revisiting issue from last week (n-triples)
Guus Schreiber: revisiting issue from last week (n-triples) ←
15:33:49 <AlexHall> ... andy proposed a way forward last week
... andy proposed a way forward last week ←
15:34:09 <AlexHall> gavin: most of this proposal is reflected in the current editors draft, so i like it
Gavin Carothers: most of this proposal is reflected in the current editors draft, so i like it ←
15:34:32 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/c43ac715dde2/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-triples
Gavin Carothers: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/c43ac715dde2/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-triples ←
15:34:49 <AlexHall> guus: would like comment from the oracle people. have they had a chance to review it?
Guus Schreiber: would like comment from the oracle people. have they had a chance to review it? ←
15:34:54 <Zakim> +??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←
15:35:19 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
15:35:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see ScottB, gavinc, AndyS, sandro, Arnaud (muted), AlexHall, Guus, AZ, SteveH, EricP, zwu2 (muted), MacTed (muted), cgreer, LeeF, PatH, ??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ScottB, gavinc, AndyS, sandro, Arnaud (muted), AlexHall, Guus, AZ, SteveH, EricP, zwu2 (muted), MacTed (muted), cgreer, LeeF, PatH, ??P5 ←
15:35:21 <zwu2> zakim, unmute me
15:35:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see PatH, pfps, cgreer, zwu2, LeeF, AlexHall, Arnaud, SteveH, AZ, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, Guus, ScottB, danbri, AndyS_, yvesr, NickH, trackbot, mdmdm, manu, manu1,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see PatH, pfps, cgreer, zwu2, LeeF, AlexHall, Arnaud, SteveH, AZ, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, Guus, ScottB, danbri, AndyS_, yvesr, NickH, trackbot, mdmdm, manu, manu1, ←
15:35:22 <Zakim> ... sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, ericP ←
15:35:24 <Zakim> zwu2 should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should no longer be muted ←
15:35:48 <PatH> zakim, mute me.
Patrick Hayes: zakim, mute me. ←
15:35:50 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should now be muted ←
15:36:01 <AlexHall> zwu2: have been busy with customers, no chance to review it
Zhe Wu: have been busy with customers, no chance to review it ←
15:36:38 <AlexHall> ACTION: zhe to review Andy's email from last week re N-Triples and comment on it.
ACTION: zhe to review Andy's email from last week re N-Triples and comment on it. ←
15:36:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-153 - Review Andy's email from last week re N-Triples and comment on it. [on Zhe Wu - due 2012-03-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-153 - Review Andy's email from last week re N-Triples and comment on it. [on Zhe Wu - due 2012-03-21]. ←
15:36:49 <zwu2> thanks guus
15:37:10 <AlexHall> guus: let's look at planning for Turtle LC
Guus Schreiber: let's look at planning for Turtle LC ←
15:37:23 <pchampin> what's the deadline?
Pierre-Antoine Champin: what's the deadline? ←
15:37:33 <AlexHall> ... andy indicated willingness to review Turtle draft for last call. any other volunteers?
... andy indicated willingness to review Turtle draft for last call. any other volunteers? ←
15:38:08 <AlexHall> guus: editors, what is a reasonable deadline for reviewers?
Guus Schreiber: editors, what is a reasonable deadline for reviewers? ←
15:38:43 <AlexHall> eric: Trying to think of changes. There's removal of \u escapes from prefix names
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Trying to think of changes. There's removal of \u escapes from prefix names ←
15:39:02 <AlexHall> gavin: change to reference ourselves for n-triples definition
Gavin Carothers: change to reference ourselves for n-triples definition ←
15:39:21 <AlexHall> ... change grammar to reflect text per today's resolution
... change grammar to reflect text per today's resolution ←
15:39:27 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
15:39:39 <AlexHall> ... editorial changes that Andy collected in an email
... editorial changes that Andy collected in an email ←
15:39:46 <NickH> Zakim, mute me
Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, mute me ←
15:39:46 <Zakim> NickH should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: NickH should now be muted ←
15:40:01 <AlexHall> ... do we need issues for all of these?
... do we need issues for all of these? ←
15:40:33 <AlexHall> eric: think we can edit as needed to address these items before review, once it's reviewed we need wg consensus
Eric Prud'hommeaux: think we can edit as needed to address these items before review, once it's reviewed we need wg consensus ←
15:40:42 <PatH> what?
Patrick Hayes: what? ←
15:40:52 <AlexHall> gavin: another issue is case-insensitivity of boolean true/false
Gavin Carothers: another issue is case-insensitivity of boolean true/false ←
15:40:59 <PatH> ah.
Patrick Hayes: ah. ←
15:41:10 <gavinc> ACTION Gavin Figure out what happened with case-independent true/false
Gavin Carothers: ACTION Gavin Figure out what happened with case-independent true/false ←
15:41:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-154 - Figure out what happened with case-independent true/false [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-03-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-154 - Figure out what happened with case-independent true/false [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-03-21]. ←
15:41:18 <AlexHall> guus: don't see this noted anywhere, need to track it
Guus Schreiber: don't see this noted anywhere, need to track it ←
15:41:53 <AlexHall> gavin: can somebody confirm that we've covered all feedback from comments mailing list?
Gavin Carothers: can somebody confirm that we've covered all feedback from comments mailing list? ←
15:42:19 <AlexHall> guus: i think we have tracked all that, we can go back and verify in parallel with group review
Guus Schreiber: i think we have tracked all that, we can go back and verify in parallel with group review ←
15:42:40 <AlexHall> gavin: what are we writing changes relative to?
Gavin Carothers: what are we writing changes relative to? ←
15:42:57 <AlexHall> guus: since no previous standard, use original wg note as a reference point
Guus Schreiber: since no previous standard, use original wg note as a reference point ←
15:43:13 <AlexHall> eric: did we decide that true/false are case-insensitive?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: did we decide that true/false are case-insensitive? ←
15:43:37 <AlexHall> gavin: sparql says that they are case insensitive, but grammar isn't
Gavin Carothers: sparql says that they are case insensitive, but grammar isn't ←
15:43:59 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:44:01 <PatH> sound of head exploding?
Patrick Hayes: sound of head exploding? ←
15:44:18 <ericP> sound of infinite recursion?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: sound of infinite recursion? ←
15:44:25 <PatH> lol
Patrick Hayes: lol ←
15:44:37 <AlexHall> guus: i'm happy with anything you guys agree on
Guus Schreiber: i'm happy with anything you guys agree on ←
15:45:02 <AndyS> skype bug is attempting to take over all my machine
Andy Seaborne: skype bug is attempting to take over all my machine ←
15:45:20 <AlexHall> gavin: trying to agree on grammar keyword, but in either case they will map to canonical (lower-case) "true" or "false" for the actual literal value
Gavin Carothers: trying to agree on grammar keyword, but in either case they will map to canonical (lower-case) "true" or "false" for the actual literal value ←
15:45:35 <AlexHall> eric: correct
Eric Prud'hommeaux: correct ←
15:46:12 <AlexHall> guus: is 2 weeks realistic for a review?
Guus Schreiber: is 2 weeks realistic for a review? ←
15:46:35 <AlexHall> gavin: 2 weeks should be ok
Gavin Carothers: 2 weeks should be ok ←
15:46:59 <AlexHall> guus: have draft available in 2 weeks, then give reviewers another 2 weeks to respond after that
Guus Schreiber: have draft available in 2 weeks, then give reviewers another 2 weeks to respond after that ←
15:47:14 <AlexHall> ... sound ok to editors?
... sound ok to editors? ←
15:47:23 <ericP> AndyS1, would you prefer that the keywords were case-sensitive or insensitive?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: AndyS1, would you prefer that the keywords were case-sensitive or insensitive? ←
15:48:14 <pchampin> ok, count me in as a reviewer
Pierre-Antoine Champin: ok, count me in as a reviewer ←
15:49:12 <AlexHall> guus: let's make this our tentative schedule. mar 28 draft available, discuss reviews at apr 11 telecon
Guus Schreiber: let's make this our tentative schedule. mar 28 draft available, discuss reviews at apr 11 telecon ←
15:50:05 <AlexHall> ... andy and pierre-antoine, would be best if reviews available by apr 9
... andy and pierre-antoine, would be best if reviews available by apr 9 ←
15:50:23 <AndyS> Not sure it's a big deal - compatibility for SPARQL is insensitive but not sure it happens in the wild much (indeed even using true/false at all)
Andy Seaborne: Not sure it's a big deal - compatibility for SPARQL is insensitive but not sure it happens in the wild much (indeed even using true/false at all) ←
15:50:35 <AlexHall> ACTION: gavin to prepare Turtle LC draft by March 28
ACTION: gavin to prepare Turtle LC draft by March 28 ←
15:50:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-155 - Prepare Turtle LC draft by March 28 [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-03-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-155 - Prepare Turtle LC draft by March 28 [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-03-21]. ←
15:50:48 <AlexHall> ACTION: eric to prepare Turtle LC draft by March 28
ACTION: eric to prepare Turtle LC draft by March 28 ←
15:50:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-156 - Prepare Turtle LC draft by March 28 [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2012-03-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-156 - Prepare Turtle LC draft by March 28 [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2012-03-21]. ←
15:51:05 <AlexHall> ACTION: andy to review Turtle LC draft by April 9
ACTION: andy to review Turtle LC draft by April 9 ←
15:51:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-157 - Review Turtle LC draft by April 9 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-03-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-157 - Review Turtle LC draft by April 9 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-03-21]. ←
15:51:52 <AlexHall> ... discuss testing approach in the coming weeks
... discuss testing approach in the coming weeks ←
15:52:05 <AlexHall> ... hope to have document published by end of april
... hope to have document published by end of april ←
15:52:19 <AlexHall> ACTION: pchampin to review Turtle LC draft by April 9
ACTION: pchampin to review Turtle LC draft by April 9 ←
15:52:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-158 - Review Turtle LC draft by April 9 [on Pierre-Antoine Champin - due 2012-03-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-158 - Review Turtle LC draft by April 9 [on Pierre-Antoine Champin - due 2012-03-21]. ←
15:53:03 <Guus>
15:53:06 <AlexHall> guus: SPARQL wg coordination -- think we're ok on this
Guus Schreiber: SPARQL wg coordination -- think we're ok on this ←
15:53:26 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
15:53:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:53:37 <AlexHall> topic: named graphs semantics
15:53:43 <PatH> zakim, unmute me.
Patrick Hayes: zakim, unmute me. ←
15:53:43 <Zakim> PatH should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should no longer be muted ←
15:53:47 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me ←
15:53:47 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:53:54 <AlexHall> zakim, mute AndyS
zakim, mute AndyS ←
15:53:55 <Zakim> AndyS should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS should now be muted ←
15:54:07 <PatH> im getting bad sound here.
Patrick Hayes: im getting bad sound here. ←
15:54:34 <Zakim> +??P38
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P38 ←
15:54:40 <AlexHall> guus: pat sent out note on contexts, can we take a few minutes to ask clarification questions?
Guus Schreiber: pat sent out note on contexts, can we take a few minutes to ask clarification questions? ←
15:54:43 <PatH> sound ok now
Patrick Hayes: sound ok now ←
15:55:19 <AlexHall> ... in the 3 cases, particularly case 2 where dataset has time of context
... in the 3 cases, particularly case 2 where dataset has time of context ←
15:55:52 <AlexHall> ... my reply was that this is orthogonal to case 3. is this correct?
... my reply was that this is orthogonal to case 3. is this correct? ←
15:55:57 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P38 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P38 is me ←
15:55:57 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
15:56:43 <AlexHall> pat: they can't coexist casually. if you think of the 4th column IRI as a label in a graph store, in case 3 the IRI denotes the graph, in case 2 the IRI denotes the context
Patrick Hayes: they can't coexist casually. if you think of the 4th column IRI as a label in a graph store, in case 3 the IRI denotes the graph, in case 2 the IRI denotes the context ←
15:57:28 <PatH> i forgive you already
Patrick Hayes: i forgive you already ←
15:57:30 <AlexHall> guus: other questions about this?
Guus Schreiber: other questions about this? ←
15:57:47 <AlexHall> ... if not, would like to give pat the floor to discuss latest message
... if not, would like to give pat the floor to discuss latest message ←
15:58:13 <AZ> Pat's last long email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Mar/0086.html
Antoine Zimmermann: Pat's last long email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Mar/0086.html ←
15:58:40 <AlexHall> pat: the latest email was a sort of epiphany about this whole thing -- whether the scope of IRI labels should be local to a graph or global to the web, etc.
Patrick Hayes: the latest email was a sort of epiphany about this whole thing -- whether the scope of IRI labels should be local to a graph or global to the web, etc. ←
15:59:00 <AlexHall> ... both sides seem blindingly obvious to their proponents
... both sides seem blindingly obvious to their proponents ←
15:59:22 <AlexHall> ... think of RDF as have always been a context logic all along, where the context was implicit
... think of RDF as have always been a context logic all along, where the context was implicit ←
15:59:40 <AlexHall> ... i.e. there was a global RDF context but we never actually acknowledged it
... i.e. there was a global RDF context but we never actually acknowledged it ←
15:59:57 <AZ> q+
Antoine Zimmermann: q+ ←
16:00:25 <AlexHall> ... suggest that we make this explicit in RDF, with the assumption that if a context is not explicitly named it's assumed to be the global RDF context
... suggest that we make this explicit in RDF, with the assumption that if a context is not explicitly named it's assumed to be the global RDF context ←
16:00:44 <AlexHall> ... allows authors to fix their data in a hierarchy of contexts
... allows authors to fix their data in a hierarchy of contexts ←
16:01:02 <AlexHall> ... this suits the cyc approach, which has been doing this for a while
... this suits the cyc approach, which has been doing this for a while ←
16:01:14 <zwu2> I like the idea of importing another context
Zhe Wu: I like the idea of importing another context ←
16:01:29 <AlexHall> ... also works well with owl:imports, sort of importing another context
... also works well with owl:imports, sort of importing another context ←
16:02:02 <AlexHall> ... can add this machinery to RDF by modifying the semantics and syntax, with datasets as the syntax
... can add this machinery to RDF by modifying the semantics and syntax, with datasets as the syntax ←
16:02:21 <AlexHall> ... allow people to grow this global network of contexts
... allow people to grow this global network of contexts ←
16:02:54 <AlexHall> ... supports andy's notion of islands and allows people to explicitly link their islands to participate in other contexts
... supports andy's notion of islands and allows people to explicitly link their islands to participate in other contexts ←
16:03:12 <Guus> q+
Guus Schreiber: q+ ←
16:03:13 <AlexHall> ... seems to give us a good story to tell on how it all links together
... seems to give us a good story to tell on how it all links together ←
16:03:28 <AlexHall> ... and is an extension of the current RDF, not a modification of it
... and is an extension of the current RDF, not a modification of it ←
16:04:26 <AlexHall> az: pat, you say we could integrate in RDF semantics the notion of context. couldn't we just keep RDF as it is, a context-less logic & data model, and define another contextual data model
Antoine Zimmermann: pat, you say we could integrate in RDF semantics the notion of context. couldn't we just keep RDF as it is, a context-less logic & data model, and define another contextual data model ←
16:04:52 <AlexHall> ... people would explicitly opt into it if they don't want the context-less RDF
... people would explicitly opt into it if they don't want the context-less RDF ←
16:05:13 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
16:05:32 <AlexHall> pat: yes, we could do that. would like to give people a way to publish data in a context and provide the machinery for people to explicitly declare their context
Patrick Hayes: yes, we could do that. would like to give people a way to publish data in a context and provide the machinery for people to explicitly declare their context ←
16:05:55 <AlexHall> ... could certainly be done in two layers as you say
... could certainly be done in two layers as you say ←
16:06:38 <AlexHall> az: if it's all one layer and you publish something in a context, don't you run into issues of contexts of contexts, quints, etc?
Antoine Zimmermann: if it's all one layer and you publish something in a context, don't you run into issues of contexts of contexts, quints, etc? ←
16:06:52 <AlexHall> pat: had the same worry, but there's a way to stop that from happening.
Patrick Hayes: had the same worry, but there's a way to stop that from happening. ←
16:07:34 <AZ> ack AZ
Antoine Zimmermann: ack AZ ←
16:08:01 <AlexHall> guus: if i look at your trig, everything except the first line is the same as what others have suggested
Guus Schreiber: if i look at your trig, everything except the first line is the same as what others have suggested ←
16:08:12 <AlexHall> ... but what's the point of the rdf:DatasetMeta in the first line?
... but what's the point of the rdf:DatasetMeta in the first line? ←
16:08:14 <Guus> ack Guus
Guus Schreiber: ack Guus ←
16:09:06 <AlexHall> pat: the IRI identifies a context. an IRI can both name something but also reference a context.
Patrick Hayes: the IRI identifies a context. an IRI can both name something but also reference a context. ←
16:09:37 <Arnaud> did he just say "meta context"??
Arnaud Le Hors: did he just say "meta context"?? ←
16:09:37 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
16:09:38 <AlexHall> ... rdf:DatasetMeta is a special IRI that allows us to denote the actual context, and refer to it in other places as the actual context
... rdf:DatasetMeta is a special IRI that allows us to denote the actual context, and refer to it in other places as the actual context ←
16:09:48 <AZ> this makes sense to me
Antoine Zimmermann: this makes sense to me ←
16:10:27 <AlexHall> ... addresses the issue where people want to use the 4th column as a context but have it denote something else (a person, etc)
... addresses the issue where people want to use the 4th column as a context but have it denote something else (a person, etc) ←
16:10:43 <AlexHall> sandro: so far this sounds encouraging. a lot more details to work out.
Sandro Hawke: so far this sounds encouraging. a lot more details to work out. ←
16:11:03 <AlexHall> guus: yes, many more details. would like to work out some examples.
Guus Schreiber: yes, many more details. would like to work out some examples. ←
16:11:42 <AlexHall> sandro: the term that you use for importing something, is this actually asserting something to be true?
Sandro Hawke: the term that you use for importing something, is this actually asserting something to be true? ←
16:12:07 <AlexHall> ... can you use this to make statements about the truth of the stuff in a context?
... can you use this to make statements about the truth of the stuff in a context? ←
16:12:09 <LeeF> consistent
Lee Feigenbaum: consistent ←
16:12:12 <LeeF> ?
Lee Feigenbaum: ? ←
16:12:19 <zwu2> compatible contexts?
Zhe Wu: compatible contexts? ←
16:12:34 <AlexHall> pat: i think of this more as an endorsement or agreement.
Patrick Hayes: i think of this more as an endorsement or agreement. ←
16:13:08 <Arnaud> re: meta context, I hope we're only talking about one level of context
Arnaud Le Hors: re: meta context, I hope we're only talking about one level of context ←
16:13:23 <AlexHall> ... phrasing it in terms of absolute truth is a bit misleading. seems like you want to claim that something is globally true, which seems counter to the point of all this
... phrasing it in terms of absolute truth is a bit misleading. seems like you want to claim that something is globally true, which seems counter to the point of all this ←
16:13:42 <Guus> q?\
Guus Schreiber: q?\ ←
16:13:49 <AlexHall> sandro: but if i'm in a context and i say something is true, the truth of that can't be any stronger than my own context
Sandro Hawke: but if i'm in a context and i say something is true, the truth of that can't be any stronger than my own context ←
16:14:11 <AlexHall> pat: exactly. we want to avoid the perception that we're trying to state something as globally true.
Patrick Hayes: exactly. we want to avoid the perception that we're trying to state something as globally true. ←
16:14:54 <AlexHall> sandro: what about the school of thought that if you're using a URI, you're accepting the document named by that URI? is that OK to do here?
Sandro Hawke: what about the school of thought that if you're using a URI, you're accepting the document named by that URI? is that OK to do here? ←
16:15:27 <AlexHall> pat: I'm aware of that convention. but it often doesn't work. you could think of it as an implicit version of what i'm trying to make explicit here.
Patrick Hayes: I'm aware of that convention. but it often doesn't work. you could think of it as an implicit version of what i'm trying to make explicit here. ←
16:16:05 <AlexHall> ... you could encourage as good practice that if you use a URI, you're accepting as true the contexts mentioned by that document.
... you could encourage as good practice that if you use a URI, you're accepting as true the contexts mentioned by that document. ←
16:16:35 <AlexHall> guus: at the end of the telecon time. would like to see more email conversation on this, especially about how it relates to the example use cases.
Guus Schreiber: at the end of the telecon time. would like to see more email conversation on this, especially about how it relates to the example use cases. ←
16:17:03 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:17:24 <zwu2> bye
16:17:28 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
16:17:29 <AlexHall> ... adjourned.
... adjourned. ←
16:17:29 <Zakim> -ScottB
Zakim IRC Bot: -ScottB ←
16:17:31 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
16:17:36 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
16:17:38 <Zakim> -yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr ←
16:17:38 <Zakim> -sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro ←
16:17:39 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
16:17:42 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
16:17:43 <Zakim> -AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall ←
16:17:45 <Zakim> -cgreer
Zakim IRC Bot: -cgreer ←
16:17:45 <Zakim> -??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P5 ←
16:17:59 <Zakim> -Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus ←
16:18:07 <AlexHall> RRSAgent, draft minutes
RRSAgent, draft minutes ←
16:18:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/14-rdf-wg-minutes.html AlexHall
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/14-rdf-wg-minutes.html AlexHall ←
16:18:19 <AlexHall> RRSAgent, make logs public
RRSAgent, make logs public ←
16:18:31 <Zakim> -NickH
Zakim IRC Bot: -NickH ←
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This revision (#3) generated 2012-03-14 16:31:25 UTC by 'alexhall', comments: None