The group was notified that the charter for the group was extended to September 2013, however, the goal is to stay on the schedule outlined at the last face-to-face meeting.
An FAQ for PROV was created on the Semantic Web Activity wiki. The group was encouraged to add any information or faq entries there.
An update on prov-xml was given. Curt had resolved several issues. ISSUE-493 was resolved - the group agreed that serializations are free to adopt their own type representation. The prov-xml team is getting close to be able to begin on creating the note associated with prov-xml. An update will be given next week.
The group agreed that the chairs would be responsible for responding to public comments. Luc went through some additional issues that he had proposed resolutions for. The same pattern as last time would be followed, where the group had several days to review the responses and object if they didn't agree with the resoultions. The group also made a formal vote resolving previously resolved public issues.
PROV-O Issues with open actions were gone through. Stian and Satya were not on the call so Paul agreed to follow-up with them on their open issues. Jun agreed to talk to Graham about how to resolve issue 461 about the printable layout of the PROV-o document. The group discussed two issues to do with subclassing (issues 523 and 552) particularly with Influence. It was decided that the PROV-O issue 552 was subsumed by 523. This is a complicated issue and 523 should be resolved before moving on to 552.
14:50:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-prov-irc ←
14:50:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:50:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:50:30 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:50:31 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:50:31 <trackbot> Date: 20 September 2012
14:50:33 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
Paul Groth: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:50:33 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes ←
14:50:51 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.09.20
14:50:58 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
14:51:10 <pgroth> Scribe: Tom De Nies
(Scribe set to Tom De Nies)
14:51:20 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, make logs public ←
14:51:46 <pgroth> Regrets: James Cheney, Curt Tilmes, Ivan Herman
14:54:57 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:55:04 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
14:55:12 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P9 is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, ??P9 is me ←
14:55:12 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
14:58:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:58:26 <Luc> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Luc Moreau: zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
14:58:26 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it ←
14:58:35 <Luc> zakim, who is on the call?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is on the call? ←
14:58:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc ←
14:59:51 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
15:00:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:00:23 <TomDN> zakim, ipcaller is me
zakim, ipcaller is me ←
15:00:23 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN; got it ←
15:00:55 <TomDN> zakim, who is on the phone?
zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:00:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, ??P11, TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, ??P11, TomDN ←
15:01:06 <pgroth> Zakim, who is loud?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who is loud? ←
15:01:06 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, pgroth.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, pgroth. ←
15:01:11 <pgroth> Zakim, who is noisy?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who is noisy? ←
15:01:21 <Zakim> pgroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: TomDN (65%)
Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: TomDN (65%) ←
15:01:23 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:01:24 <Zakim> +??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25 ←
15:01:30 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:01:30 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:01:32 <jun> zakim, ??P25 is me
Jun Zhao: zakim, ??P25 is me ←
15:01:32 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:01:32 <Zakim> +jun; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it ←
15:01:34 <TomDN> yes
yes ←
15:01:34 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:01:50 <pgroth> Topic: Admin
15:02:37 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-09-13
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-09-13 ←
15:02:46 <TomDN> pgroth: approval of last week's minutes
Paul Groth: approval of last week's minutes ←
15:02:48 <pgroth> Minutes of the September 13, 2012 Telecon
Paul Groth: Minutes of the September 13, 2012 Telecon ←
15:02:58 <TomDN> +1
+1 ←
15:03:03 <Dong> +1
Trung Huynh: +1 ←
15:03:08 <jun> +1
15:03:37 <pgroth> accepted: Minutes of the September 13, 2012 Telecon
RESOLVED: Minutes of the September 13, 2012 Telecon ←
15:04:31 <pgroth> Topic: Charter Extension
Summary: The group was notified that the charter for the group was extended to September 2013, however, the goal is to stay on the schedule outlined at the last face-to-face meeting.
<pgroth> Summary: The group was notified that the charter for the group was extended to September 2013, however, the goal is to stay on the schedule outlined at the last face-to-face meeting.
15:04:39 <TomDN> pgroth: we need scribes, please sign up in advance
Paul Groth: we need scribes, please sign up in advance ←
15:04:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:05:03 <TomDN> pgroth: We are close to the end of the charter, but our extension request was approved
Paul Groth: We are close to the end of the charter, but our extension request was approved ←
15:05:14 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/01/prov-wg-charter
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/01/prov-wg-charter ←
15:05:19 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aaaa ←
15:05:29 <TomDN> ... initially, we wanted it up to April/May, but we got an extension to september 2013
... initially, we wanted it up to April/May, but we got an extension to september 2013 ←
15:05:57 <TomDN> ... However, we're still aiming to deliver everything according to the schedule agreed at F2F3
... However, we're still aiming to deliver everything according to the schedule agreed at F2F3 ←
15:06:18 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:06:19 <TomDN> ... We will make an updated timeline some time next week
... We will make an updated timeline some time next week ←
15:06:21 <pgroth> q-
Paul Groth: q- ←
15:06:23 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:06:37 <pgroth> Topic: FAQ
Summary: An FAQ for PROV was created on the Semantic Web Activity wiki. The group was encouraged to add any information or faq entries there.
<pgroth> Summary: An FAQ for PROV was created on the Semantic Web Activity wiki. The group was encouraged to add any information or faq entries there.
15:07:03 <TomDN> pgroth: Last week, we had an action to make an FAQ on PROV
Paul Groth: Last week, we had an action to make an FAQ on PROV ←
15:07:12 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV ←
15:07:24 <TomDN> ... Among others, the use of dc:hasPart for sub-activities is in there
... Among others, the use of dc:hasPart for sub-activities is in there ←
15:07:55 <TomDN> ... the WG is invited to populate this FAQ
... the WG is invited to populate this FAQ ←
15:07:58 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:08:00 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:08:03 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
15:08:12 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:08:45 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:08:49 <TomDN> pgroth: This is at the Semantic Web activity wiki, which means that we can keep updating this, even after the WG is finished
Paul Groth: This is at the Semantic Web activity wiki, which means that we can keep updating this, even after the WG is finished ←
15:08:55 <pgroth> Topic: PROV-XML
Summary: An update on prov-xml was given. Curt had resolved several issues. ISSUE-493 was resolved - the group agreed that serializations are free to adopt their own type representation. The prov-xml team is getting close to be able to begin on creating the note associated with prov-xml. An update will be given next week.
<pgroth> Summary: An update on prov-xml was given. Curt had resolved several issues. ISSUE-493 was resolved - the group agreed that serializations are free to adopt their own type representation. The prov-xml team is getting close to be able to begin on creating the note associated with prov-xml. An update will be given next week.
15:09:38 <TomDN> pgroth: There were a couple of issues that we didn't resolve last week, perhaps Stephan can go over them
Paul Groth: There were a couple of issues that we didn't resolve last week, perhaps Stephan can go over them ←
15:10:00 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/493
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/493 ←
15:10:23 <TomDN> pgroth: Where are we in issue 493?
Paul Groth: Where are we in ISSUE-493? ←
15:10:41 <TomDN> zednik: Right now the schema reflects the DM completely
Stephan Zednik: Right now the schema reflects the DM completely ←
15:11:04 <TomDN> ... We didn't want to move away from the DM, so we haven't made any changes in the schema
... We didn't want to move away from the DM, so we haven't made any changes in the schema ←
15:11:51 <TomDN> ... We use RDF types, to respresent type information, as it is the most natural/intuitive way
... We use RDF types, to respresent type information, as it is the most natural/intuitive way ←
15:12:13 <TomDN> ... We are still discussing.
... We are still discussing. ←
15:12:30 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:12:34 <TomDN> pgroth: So each serialization can have its own type. Do we all agree to this?
Paul Groth: So each serialization can have its own type. Do we all agree to this? ←
15:12:55 <TomDN> zednik: Not sure, the telecon on monday was too small to tell if everyone agrees
Stephan Zednik: Not sure, the telecon on monday was too small to tell if everyone agrees ←
15:13:13 <TomDN> Luc: We don't want to be too restrictive for these types
Luc Moreau: We don't want to be too restrictive for these types ←
15:13:23 <TomDN> ... to avoid overconstraining things.
... to avoid overconstraining things. ←
15:14:08 <TomDN> ... In the ontology, we use RDF types, which is fine for the RDF mapping, but I'm not sure what we should use in XML
... In the ontology, we use RDF types, which is fine for the RDF mapping, but I'm not sure what we should use in XML ←
15:14:10 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:14:12 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:14:18 <TomDN> ... It would be up to the translator to determine this.
... It would be up to the translator to determine this. ←
15:15:06 <TomDN> pgroth: Seems like a good idea, except that it would be problematic to convert PROV-XML to RDF, if the types don't agree
Paul Groth: Seems like a good idea, except that it would be problematic to convert PROV-XML to RDF, if the types don't agree ←
15:15:16 <Luc> in xml, we have prov:type and not xsd:type
Luc Moreau: in xml, we have prov:type and not xsd:type ←
15:15:26 <Luc> in xml, we have prov:type and not xsi:type
Luc Moreau: in xml, we have prov:type and not xsi:type ←
15:15:41 <TomDN> zednik: We don't have a complex type for agents that are also entities
Stephan Zednik: We don't have a complex type for agents that are also entities ←
15:15:55 <TomDN> ... e.g. "this is an entity with type agent"
... e.g. "this is an entity with type agent" ←
15:16:23 <TomDN> pgroth: So the resolution would be to leave things as they are: loose like in the DM.
Paul Groth: So the resolution would be to leave things as they are: loose like in the DM. ←
15:16:36 <TomDN> ... and leave typing up to the implementer
... and leave typing up to the implementer ←
15:17:21 <TomDN> Luc: elaborates on "in xml, we have prov:type and not xsi:type"
Luc Moreau: elaborates on "in xml, we have prov:type and not xsi:type" ←
15:17:30 <TomDN> ... which is an xml attribute
... which is an xml attribute ←
15:17:46 <TomDN> zednik: so you can only have one?
Stephan Zednik: so you can only have one? ←
15:18:02 <TomDN> ... That is not the case in the DM or ontology
... That is not the case in the DM or ontology ←
15:18:26 <pgroth> proposed: leave prov-dm to allow for loose types and each serialisation should define their own type system
PROPOSED: leave prov-dm to allow for loose types and each serialisation should define their own type system ←
15:18:37 <tlebo> zakim, who is on the phone?
Timothy Lebo: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:18:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, ??P11, TomDN, MacTed (muted), jun, [IPcaller], +1.315.330.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, ??P11, TomDN, MacTed (muted), jun, [IPcaller], +1.315.330.aaaa ←
15:18:40 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:18:45 <tlebo> zakim, I am aaaa
Timothy Lebo: zakim, I am aaaa ←
15:18:45 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it ←
15:18:58 <christine> zakim, ??P11 is me
Christine Runnegar: zakim, ??P11 is me ←
15:18:58 <Zakim> +christine; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +christine; got it ←
15:19:06 <pgroth> proposed: leave prov-dm to allow for loose types and each serialisation should adopt their own type representation
PROPOSED: leave prov-dm to allow for loose types and each serialisation should adopt their own type representation ←
15:19:14 <TomDN> Luc: it would be better to say "should adopt their own type representation"
Luc Moreau: it would be better to say "should adopt their own type representation" ←
15:19:17 <TomDN> +1
+1 ←
15:19:19 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
15:19:21 <Luc> q-
Luc Moreau: q- ←
15:19:21 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:19:24 <Dong> +1
Trung Huynh: +1 ←
15:19:30 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:19:49 <pgroth> accepted: leave prov-dm to allow for loose types and each serialisation should adopt their own type representation
RESOLVED: leave prov-dm to allow for loose types and each serialisation should adopt their own type representation ←
15:20:04 <TomDN> pgroth: that resolves issue 493
Paul Groth: that resolves ISSUE-493 ←
15:20:09 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/551
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/551 ←
15:20:11 <TomDN> issue 551?
15:20:44 <TomDN> zednik: Curt made some changes to the schema that resolved this
Stephan Zednik: Curt made some changes to the schema that resolved this ←
15:20:52 <Luc> I think it was a good solution to introduce this documentElement
Luc Moreau: I think it was a good solution to introduce this documentElement ←
15:21:26 <TomDN> ... It basically flattened out the schema
... It basically flattened out the schema ←
15:21:31 <zednik> div - http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/rev/b88f0f02344f
Stephan Zednik: div - http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/rev/b88f0f02344f ←
15:21:57 <TomDN> ... so you don't have a separate section for the relations
... so you don't have a separate section for the relations ←
15:22:03 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:22:07 <TomDN> pgroth: Were there any objections?
Paul Groth: Were there any objections? ←
15:22:11 <TomDN> zednik: no
Stephan Zednik: no ←
15:22:14 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:23:14 <TomDN> Luc: There was some refactoring of the schema that took place. All the attributes were placed in a single group "commonattributes"
Luc Moreau: There was some refactoring of the schema that took place. All the attributes were placed in a single group "commonattributes" ←
15:23:47 <TomDN> zednik: We havent been able to talk about it in the group, so we should probably raise an issue about it
Stephan Zednik: We havent been able to talk about it in the group, so we should probably raise an issue about it ←
15:24:30 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:24:33 <TomDN> sorry i missed that last
sorry i missed that last ←
15:25:13 <TomDN> pgroth: I think we did have a resolution about how close you have to get to the DM in a serialization
Paul Groth: I think we did have a resolution about how close you have to get to the DM in a serialization ←
15:25:48 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
15:26:01 <TomDN> ... If we favour something that's "natural" for RDF, we should do the same for XML
... If we favour something that's "natural" for RDF, we should do the same for XML ←
15:26:36 <TomDN> zednik: Since you can have attributes on almost anything, we grouped it as such
Stephan Zednik: Since you can have attributes on almost anything, we grouped it as such ←
15:27:01 <TomDN> ... I think it's doable to revert, although it unsimplifies the schema.
... I think it's doable to revert, although it unsimplifies the schema. ←
15:27:01 <Luc> it's already done http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/rev/7c238aba1d07
Luc Moreau: it's already done http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/rev/7c238aba1d07 ←
15:27:10 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:28:09 <TomDN> Luc: the group commonattributes has been removed from the schema
Luc Moreau: the group commonattributes has been removed from the schema ←
15:28:10 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:28:13 <Luc> q-
Luc Moreau: q- ←
15:28:39 <TomDN> pgroth: So how far are we away from a draft document?
Paul Groth: So how far are we away from a draft document? ←
15:28:51 <TomDN> zednik: So how ready/stable is the schema?
Stephan Zednik: So how ready/stable is the schema? ←
15:29:33 <TomDN> ... Well, Curt and I have been going through the issues. Most are resolved now, so it is pretty stable.
... Well, Curt and I have been going through the issues. Most are resolved now, so it is pretty stable. ←
15:29:41 <Luc> there is still the type of identifiers to address
Luc Moreau: there is still the type of identifiers to address ←
15:30:18 <TomDN> Zednik: So we are getting close to being able to start on the draft of the Note
Stephan Zednik: So we are getting close to being able to start on the draft of the Note ←
15:30:30 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:30:34 <TomDN> pgroth: OK, we'll check back next week
Paul Groth: OK, we'll check back next week ←
15:30:37 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:30:44 <TomDN> Luc: Will there be a call on monday?
Luc Moreau: Will there be a call on monday? ←
15:31:06 <TomDN> zednik: Curt can't make it, but I can, and will send out an email to ask if it's possible.
Stephan Zednik: Curt can't make it, but I can, and will send out an email to ask if it's possible. ←
15:31:09 <Luc> q-
Luc Moreau: q- ←
15:31:13 <pgroth> Topic: Resolving Public Issues
Summary: The group agreed that the chairs would be responsible for responding to public comments. Luc went through some additional issues that he had proposed resolutions for. The same pattern as last time would be followed, where the group had several days to review the responses and object if they didn't agree with the resoultions. The group also made a formal vote resolving previously resolved public issues.
<pgroth> Summary: The group agreed that the chairs would be responsible for responding to public comments. Luc went through some additional issues that he had proposed resolutions for. The same pattern as last time would be followed, where the group had several days to review the responses and object if they didn't agree with the resoultions. The group also made a formal vote resolving previously resolved public issues.
15:31:31 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments ←
15:31:52 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
15:31:56 <TomDN> pgroth: We need to clarify who is responsible for response to public comments.
Paul Groth: We need to clarify who is responsible for response to public comments. ←
15:32:08 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P12 is me
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P12 is me ←
15:32:08 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←
15:32:12 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:32:19 <TomDN> ... My tendency would be to have me or Luc do it.
... My tendency would be to have me or Luc do it. ←
15:32:22 <tlebo> q+
Timothy Lebo: q+ ←
15:32:26 <TomDN> ... Any other suggestions?
... Any other suggestions? ←
15:33:10 <TomDN> tlebo: It would be best if we work at the response on the weekly telecons, and then consistently have the chairs formulate the response to the commenter
Timothy Lebo: It would be best if we work at the response on the weekly telecons, and then consistently have the chairs formulate the response to the commenter ←
15:33:23 <christine> +1
Christine Runnegar: +1 ←
15:33:33 <TomDN> pgroth: Any objections to this?
Paul Groth: Any objections to this? ←
15:33:52 <tlebo> note - "formulate" -> "provide", naturally, the group would be formulating the response in our usual way.
Timothy Lebo: note - "formulate" -> "provide", naturally, the group would be formulating the response in our usual way. ←
15:33:59 <TomDN> pgroth: So it's agreed. Paul will handle the responses
Paul Groth: So it's agreed. Paul will handle the responses ←
15:34:50 <TomDN> Luc: There were no objections to the resolutions to the following issues:
Luc Moreau: There were no objections to the resolutions to the following issues: ←
15:35:33 <TomDN> ... (Lists the issues)
... (Lists the issues) ←
15:36:04 <TomDN> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments ←
15:36:24 <pgroth> accepted: the suggested resolutions in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments to ISSUE-532, ISSUE-525, ISSUE-507, ISSUE-504, ISSUE-503, ISSUE-447 were accepted as responses by the working group. there were no objections to the resolutions on the mailing group only support
RESOLVED: the suggested resolutions in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments to ISSUE-532, ISSUE-525, ISSUE-507, ISSUE-504, ISSUE-503, ISSUE-447 were accepted as responses by the working group. there were no objections to the resolutions on the mailing group only support ←
15:38:00 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:38:05 <pgroth> ack tlebo
Paul Groth: ack tlebo ←
15:38:11 <tlebo> q-
Timothy Lebo: q- ←
15:38:12 <TomDN> Luc: I'm happy to take feedback on the proposed responses now, but I will also follow the usual protocol, and ask for feedback on the mailinglist
Luc Moreau: I'm happy to take feedback on the proposed responses now, but I will also follow the usual protocol, and ask for feedback on the mailinglist ←
15:38:35 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:38:36 <TomDN> ... If there's no objections by next Thursday, those will be our responses.
... If there's no objections by next Tuesday, those will be our responses. ←
15:38:49 <pgroth> s/Thursday/Tuesday
15:38:55 <TomDN> tnx
tnx ←
15:38:56 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:39:18 <dgarijo> thanks for the links, I'll have a look at the responses.
Daniel Garijo: thanks for the links, I'll have a look at the responses. ←
15:40:11 <TomDN> Luc: We have addressed about 10 of the 35 issues about the DM. I'm planning to draft responses next week
Luc Moreau: We have addressed about 10 of the 35 issues about the DM. I'm planning to draft responses next week ←
15:40:56 <pgroth> Topic: Prov-o issues
Summary: PROV-O Issues with open actions were gone through. Stian and Satya were not on the call so Paul agreed to follow-up with them on their open issues. Jun agreed to talk to Graham about how to resolve issue 461 about the printable layout of the PROV-o document. The group discussed two issues to do with subclassing (issues 523 and 552) particularly with Influence. It was decided that the PROV-O issue 552 was subsumed by 523. This is a complicated issue and 523 should be resolved before moving on to 552.
<pgroth> Summary: PROV-O Issues with open actions were gone through. Stian and Satya were not on the call so Paul agreed to follow-up with them on their open issues. Jun agreed to talk to Graham about how to resolve issue 461 about the printable layout of the PROV-o document. The group discussed two issues to do with subclassing (issues 523 and 552) particularly with Influence. It was decided that the PROV-O issue 552 was subsumed by 523. This is a complicated issue and 523 should be resolved before moving on to 552.
15:41:32 <TomDN> pgroth: Last week, on Monday, we tried to clean up some issues in PROV-O, and defined some actions
Paul Groth: Last week, on Monday, we tried to clean up some issues in PROV-O, and defined some actions ←
15:41:45 <TomDN> ... We will walk through them here
... We will walk through them here ←
15:41:54 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/491
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/491 ←
15:42:13 <Luc> stian?
Luc Moreau: stian? ←
15:42:25 <TomDN> ... Stian was going to handle ACTION-107, I will follow up on this with him
... Stian was going to handle ACTION-107, I will follow up on this with him ←
15:42:46 <tlebo> the trig example.
Timothy Lebo: the trig example. ←
15:42:48 <TomDN> issue 479?
15:42:53 <dgarijo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/479
Daniel Garijo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/479 ←
15:43:25 <MacTed> issue-479?
15:43:25 <trackbot> ISSUE-479 -- cite TriG for examples -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-479 -- cite TriG for examples -- open ←
15:43:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/479
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/479 ←
15:44:04 <TomDN> ... Satya was going to take ACTION-108. No changes have been made yet, will follow up.
... Satya was going to take ACTION-108. No changes have been made yet, will follow up. ←
15:44:18 <TomDN> (tnx macted, forgot the hyphen)
(tnx macted, forgot the hyphen) ←
15:44:59 <TomDN> pgroth: Next one is ACTION-109 on issue-349
Paul Groth: Next one is ACTION-109 on ISSUE-349 ←
15:45:23 <TomDN> Jun: I took over David's actions
Jun Zhao: I took over David's actions ←
15:45:31 <TomDN> ... and ACTION-109 is done.
... and ACTION-109 is done. ←
15:45:54 <TomDN> issue-349?
15:45:54 <trackbot> ISSUE-349 -- examples for each term in cross-reference section -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-349 -- examples for each term in cross-reference section -- open ←
15:45:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/349
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/349 ←
15:46:30 <TomDN> pgroth: There were two more actions for this issue: ACTION-110 and ACTION-111 for Satya and Stian
Paul Groth: There were two more actions for this issue: ACTION-110 and ACTION-111 for Satya and Stian ←
15:46:30 <dgarijo> we reviewed the examples to check that they were updated with the latest DM
Daniel Garijo: we reviewed the examples to check that they were updated with the latest DM ←
15:46:49 <TomDN> tlebo: I've seen no changes to the examples yet.
Timothy Lebo: I've seen no changes to the examples yet. ←
15:47:12 <TomDN> ... also. ACTION-112 was on the same issue
... also. ACTION-112 was on the same issue ←
15:47:34 <pgroth> daniel?
Paul Groth: daniel? ←
15:47:35 <TomDN> pgroth: last one was on Daniel, ACTION-113 about issue 446
Paul Groth: last one was on Daniel, ACTION-113 about ISSUE-446 ←
15:47:40 <dgarijo> I have lost connection
Daniel Garijo: I have lost connection ←
15:47:43 <TomDN> issue-446?
15:47:43 <trackbot> ISSUE-446 -- prov:involvee not documented in PROV-O -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-446 -- prov:involvee not documented in PROV-O -- open ←
15:47:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/446
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/446 ←
15:47:44 <tlebo> daniels' action 113 is "prov:involvee not documented in PROV-O"
Timothy Lebo: daniels' ACTION-113 is "prov:involvee not documented in PROV-O" ←
15:47:50 <dgarijo> I have restarted the discussions
Daniel Garijo: I have restarted the discussions ←
15:47:57 <dgarijo> with Kai, Simon and Michael
Daniel Garijo: with Kai, Simon and Michael ←
15:48:09 <dgarijo> we plan to address his comments next week
Daniel Garijo: we plan to address his comments next week ←
15:48:16 <Zakim> -dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←
15:48:34 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
15:48:45 <TomDN> pgroth: Tim, do you need help on closing any other issues?
Paul Groth: Tim, do you need help on closing any other issues? ←
15:49:15 <TomDN> tlebo: Yes, could use help with issue 461
Timothy Lebo: Yes, could use help with ISSUE-461 ←
15:49:20 <TomDN> issue-461?
15:49:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-461 -- provo cross reference inadequate in printed form -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-461 -- provo cross reference inadequate in printed form -- raised ←
15:49:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/461
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/461 ←
15:49:43 <TomDN> ... Would be nice if someone could take over this one.
... Would be nice if someone could take over this one. ←
15:50:15 <TomDN> pgroth: Someone needs to talk to Graham to identify what he needs
Paul Groth: Someone needs to talk to Graham to identify what he needs ←
15:50:22 <TomDN> jun: I can do that
15:50:55 <dgarijo> +q
Daniel Garijo: +q ←
15:51:19 <TomDN> pgroth: It would be good to know all the remaining issues on PROV-O
Paul Groth: It would be good to know all the remaining issues on PROV-O ←
15:51:39 <TomDN> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/10
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/10 ←
15:52:18 <TomDN> tlebo: 349 is closed
Timothy Lebo: 349 is closed ←
15:52:40 <TomDN> ... Not sure about 446, 479 and 491
... Not sure about 446, 479 and 491 ←
15:53:29 <TomDN> dgarijo: What happened with the issues about the figures?
Daniel Garijo: What happened with the issues about the figures? ←
15:54:04 <TomDN> tlebo: There's no formal issue, but it is being looked into
Timothy Lebo: There's no formal issue, but it is being looked into ←
15:54:21 <pgroth> ack dgarijo
Paul Groth: ack dgarijo ←
15:54:22 <TomDN> ... now waiting on review of the changes made in the draft
... now waiting on review of the changes made in the draft ←
15:54:40 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/552
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/552 ←
15:54:58 <TomDN> pgroth: 552 was an external comment about subclasses
Paul Groth: 552 was an external comment about subclasses ←
15:55:12 <Luc> issue-552?
15:55:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-552 -- Check subclass definitions in prov-o -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-552 -- Check subclass definitions in prov-o -- raised ←
15:55:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/552
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/552 ←
15:55:12 <TomDN> ... Is this a DM issue or PROV-O issue?
... Is this a DM issue or PROV-O issue? ←
15:55:27 <Luc> issue-523?
15:55:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-523 -- Data Model Section 5.3.5 -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-523 -- Data Model Section 5.3.5 -- open ←
15:55:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/523
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/523 ←
15:56:01 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:56:09 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-comments/2012Sep/0000.html
Paul Groth: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-comments/2012Sep/0000.html ←
15:56:25 <TomDN> tlebo: seems like a problem with the interpretation of the DM, so it is a PROV-O issue
Timothy Lebo: seems like a problem with the interpretation of the DM, so it is a PROV-O issue ←
15:56:27 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:56:37 <christine> Thank you Paul, Luc and everyone. Apologies, I have to leave to chair a call starting on the hour.
Christine Runnegar: Thank you Paul, Luc and everyone. Apologies, I have to leave to chair a call starting on the hour. ←
15:56:46 <Zakim> -christine
Zakim IRC Bot: -christine ←
15:56:54 <TomDN> Luc: I think there's a general problem about inheritance that we may want to revisit in the DM
Luc Moreau: I think there's a general problem about inheritance that we may want to revisit in the DM ←
15:57:18 <TomDN> ... , illustrated by issue 523, about influence
... , illustrated by ISSUE-523, about influence ←
15:58:37 <TomDN> ... In the constraints, we say that IF wasDerivedFrom(b,a) THEN wasInfluencedBy(b,a)
... In the constraints, we say that IF wasDerivedFrom(b,a) THEN wasInfluencedBy(b,a) ←
15:59:02 <TomDN> ... So we may want to opt for inheritance, which is what PROV-O does
... So we may want to opt for inheritance, which is what PROV-O does ←
15:59:12 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
15:59:28 <TomDN> ... and it works well for most ontologies I think. However, I am not sure if we'd also want it in PROV-XML
... and it works well for most ontologies I think. However, I am not sure if we'd also want it in PROV-XML ←
15:59:50 <TomDN> ... Would be nice to have feedback here.
... Would be nice to have feedback here. ←
15:59:52 <tlebo> +1 to what luc said
Timothy Lebo: +1 to what luc said ←
16:00:07 <TomDN> pgroth: Would that only apply to influence? or all of the DM?
Paul Groth: Would that only apply to influence? or all of the DM? ←
16:00:20 <TomDN> Luc: I'm focusing on influence, currently
Luc Moreau: I'm focusing on influence, currently ←
16:00:47 <tlebo> does "influence" == "relation" ?
Timothy Lebo: does "influence" == "relation" ? ←
16:01:13 <TomDN> pgroth: My only issue with that is: whether or not we would change the UML in correspondence with that
Paul Groth: My only issue with that is: whether or not we would change the UML in correspondence with that ←
16:01:36 <TomDN> ... It may not be normative, but developers do use it for their implementations
... It may not be normative, but developers do use it for their implementations ←
16:01:38 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
16:01:50 <jun> [have to go now. will catch up on the minutes]
Jun Zhao: [have to go now. will catch up on the minutes] ←
16:02:07 <Zakim> -jun
Zakim IRC Bot: -jun ←
16:02:09 <TomDN> Luc: any subtype of influence can be used in any position of influence.
Luc Moreau: any subtype of influence can be used in any position of influence. ←
16:02:39 <TomDN> ... Perhaps "interface" would be better than inheritance
... Perhaps "interface" would be better than inheritance ←
16:03:07 <TomDN> ... to indicate that all subtypes are all "influence"
... to indicate that all subtypes are all "influence" ←
16:04:11 <Luc> issue-552?
16:04:11 <trackbot> ISSUE-552 -- Check subclass definitions in prov-o -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-552 -- Check subclass definitions in prov-o -- raised ←
16:04:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/552
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/552 ←
16:04:41 <TomDN> pgroth: For now, this issue should be considered together with issue-523
Paul Groth: For now, this issue should be considered together with ISSUE-523 ←
16:05:04 <TomDN> Luc: There's another issue in the DM, dealing with inheritance
Luc Moreau: There's another issue in the DM, dealing with inheritance ←
16:05:21 <TomDN> ... So we should tackle these as a set.
... So we should tackle these as a set. ←
16:05:51 <TomDN> Luc: Stephan, working with the XML schema, have you considered extension of types?
Luc Moreau: Stephan, working with the XML schema, have you considered extension of types? ←
16:06:16 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:06:22 <TomDN> zednik: It has come up, but we haven't looked into it. It should be done after the schema is stabilized.
Stephan Zednik: It has come up, but we haven't looked into it. It should be done after the schema is stabilized. ←
16:06:58 <dgarijo> Sure
Daniel Garijo: Sure ←
16:07:02 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:07:07 <TomDN> pgroth: Given the time, we will save the topic on notes for next week.
Paul Groth: Given the time, we will save the topic on notes for next week. ←
16:07:11 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
16:07:12 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
16:07:13 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
16:07:14 <TomDN> ok, tnx!
ok, tnx! ←
16:07:15 <Zakim> -??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P12 ←
16:07:16 <TomDN> bye
bye ←
16:07:25 <Zakim> -TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: -TomDN ←
16:07:32 <pgroth> rrsagnet, set log public
Paul Groth: rrsagnet, set log public ←
16:07:40 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, set log public ←
16:07:52 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
Paul Groth: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:07:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-prov-minutes.html pgroth
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-prov-minutes.html pgroth ←
16:08:04 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
16:08:04 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon
Paul Groth: trackbot, end telcon ←
16:08:04 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
16:08:05 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended ←
16:08:05 <Zakim> Attendees were pgroth, Luc, TomDN, MacTed, jun, [IPcaller], +1.315.330.aaaa, tlebo, christine, dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were pgroth, Luc, TomDN, MacTed, jun, [IPcaller], +1.315.330.aaaa, tlebo, christine, dgarijo ←
16:08:05 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is ←
16:08:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
16:08:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
16:08:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
16:08:13 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2012-09-24 10:01:19 UTC by 'pgroth', comments: 'fixed irc bugs and added summaries'