Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 16 February 2012

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.02.16
Seen
Curt Tilmes, Daniel Garijo, Eric Stephan, Helena Deus, James Cheney, Jun Zhao, Luc Moreau, Michael Lang, Paul Groth, Sam Coppens, Satya Sahoo, Stephan Zednik, Stephen Cresswell, Ted Thibodeau, Timothy Lebo, Yolanda Gil
Regrets
Michael Lang
Chair
Paul Groth
Scribe
Eric Stephan
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions

None.

Topics
  1. Admin

  2. PROV-DM Simplification

    Luc provided an overview of the preliminary draft of a simplification of the data model. Reviewers were asked to provide feedback with one week according to the criteria listed in the minutes. The following reviewers agreed to provide review: Tim, Eric, Daniel, MacTed, Curt, Sam, Jun

  3. PROV-O Ontology updated

    Satya went over an updated OWL file for prov-o. Reviewers agreed to review the ontology within 1 week according to the criteria listed in the minutes. Reviewers were Luc, Paolo, EricS, Stephen, Curt.

  4. ProvRDF Mappings

    The ProvRDF mappings were largely complete. The group agreed on a process to harmonize the prov-dm and prov-o via the mappings page. A new product (Product 9) corresponding to the ProvRDF mappings was created in the tracker. Issues with respect to harmonization should be raised there.

  5. Timetable for Release

    A discussion on when we could release a synchronous set of working drafts between prov-dm, prov-o and prov-primer. March 14 was proposed as a deadline, however, it was unclear whether this would be viable in terms of both delivery and progress on other drafts. It was decided to finalize this at the next telecon.

  6. Agent Types

    A discussion was had about renaming of the current agent subtypes. There was believed to be consensus on the mailing list for renaming. However, there was no consensus on the call. Use cases for agent subtypes from prior working group discussions were asked for. Paul agreed to send a pointer to the mailing list.

15:52:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-prov-irc

15:52:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:52:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

15:52:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

15:52:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:52:21 <trackbot> Date: 16 February 2012
15:52:29 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV

Paul Groth: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:52:29 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

15:52:45 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.02.16
15:52:55 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
15:53:00 <pgroth> Scribe: Eric Stephan

(Scribe set to Eric Stephan)

15:53:11 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public

Paul Groth: rrsagent, make logs public

15:53:20 <pgroth> Regrets: Michael Lang
15:54:06 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

15:54:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:54:21 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

15:54:21 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

15:54:59 <Zakim> + +1.509.967.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.967.aaaa

15:56:40 <Zakim> +Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc

15:58:28 <Zakim> +??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28

15:58:56 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes

15:59:26 <Zakim> + +329331aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +329331aabb

15:59:33 <Zakim> +??P48

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P48

15:59:46 <SamCoppens> zakim, +329331aabb is me

Sam Coppens: zakim, +329331aabb is me

15:59:46 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it

15:59:53 <Helena> zakim, ??P48 is me

Helena Deus: zakim, ??P48 is me

15:59:53 <Zakim> +Helena; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Helena; got it

16:00:08 <Zakim> -Helena

Zakim IRC Bot: -Helena

16:01:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:01:32 <Zakim> +??P63

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P63

16:02:10 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P63 is probably me

Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P63 is probably me

16:02:21 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

16:02:41 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

16:02:44 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:02:56 <Zakim> +tlebo

Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo

16:03:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

16:03:09 <Zakim> +dgarijo?; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo?; got it

16:03:31 <Zakim> +Helena

Zakim IRC Bot: +Helena

16:03:44 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy?

16:03:50 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

16:03:54 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

16:03:55 <Helena> zakim, who is making noise?

Helena Deus: zakim, who is making noise?

16:04:27 <pgroth> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

16:04:48 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  Paul still  has to do the minues of the f2f2 meeting.

Paul Groth: Paul still has to do the minues of the f2f2 meeting.

16:04:58 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (51%), Luc (13%), [IPcaller] (54%)

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (51%), Luc (13%), [IPcaller] (54%)

16:04:59 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  will be getting to it asap

Paul Groth: will be getting to it asap

16:05:00 <pgroth> Minutes of the Feb 9 2012 Telecon: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-02-09

Paul Groth: Minutes of the Feb 9 2012 Telecon: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-02-09

16:05:12 <Zakim> Helena, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (39%), Luc (34%), [IPcaller] (11%)

Zakim IRC Bot: Helena, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (39%), Luc (34%), [IPcaller] (11%)

16:05:19 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

16:05:23 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

16:05:24 <ERICstephan> +1

+1

16:05:26 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1

16:05:28 <Helena> +1

Helena Deus: +1

16:05:34 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

16:05:56 <pgroth> Approved - Minutes of the Feb 9 2012 Telecon

Paul Groth: Approved - Minutes of the Feb 9 2012 Telecon

16:06:06 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open

16:06:09 <ERICstephan> pgroth: go over open actions, but not all

Paul Groth: go over open actions, but not all

16:06:23 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  Action #52:

Paul Groth: Action #52:

16:06:58 <dgarijo> +1 for the minutes too

Daniel Garijo: +1 for the minutes too

16:07:18 <ERICstephan> pgroth:52  not closed yet because of 106

Paul Groth: ACTION-52 not closed yet because of 105

16:07:27 <ERICstephan> s/106/105
16:07:39 <pgroth> Engage implementation task force to begin developing of a test harness around examples (from tim or others)

Paul Groth: Engage implementation task force to begin developing of a test harness around examples (from tim or others)

16:07:46 <MacTed> s/52/Action-52/
16:08:07 <MacTed> s/of 106/of Issue-105/

Ted Thibodeau: s/of 106/of ISSUE-105/ (warning: replacement failed)

16:08:48 <ERICstephan> bring in HCLS and hoping stephan can validdate.

bring in HCLS and hoping stephan can validdate.

16:08:52 <ERICstephan> Who was speaking?

Who was speaking?

16:08:55 <Zakim> +??P29

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29

16:08:59 <jcheney> zakim, ??p29 is me

James Cheney: zakim, ??p29 is me

16:09:01 <Helena> ERICstephan: I was speaking

Eric Stephan: I was speaking [ Scribe Assist by Helena Deus ]

16:09:04 <dgarijo> that sounds very interesting indeed.

Daniel Garijo: that sounds very interesting indeed.

16:09:06 <ERICstephan> thank you

thank you

16:09:15 <Luc> date was not set

Luc Moreau: date was not set

16:09:20 <Zakim> +Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yolanda

16:09:48 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it

16:09:55 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo

16:10:33 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  action-63 due in one week's time

Paul Groth: ACTION-63 due in one week's time

16:10:53 <pgroth> Topic: PROV-DM Simplification

2. PROV-DM Simplification

Summary: Luc provided an overview of the preliminary draft of a simplification of the data model. Reviewers were asked to provide feedback with one week according to the criteria listed in the minutes. The following reviewers agreed to provide review: Tim, Eric, Daniel, MacTed, Curt, Sam, Jun

<pgroth> Summary: Luc provided an overview of the preliminary draft of a simplification of the data model. Reviewers were asked to provide feedback with one week according to the criteria listed in the minutes. The following reviewers agreed to provide review:  Tim, Eric, Daniel, MacTed, Curt, Sam, Jun
16:10:54 <ERICstephan> pgroth: need more scribes after next week

Paul Groth: need more scribes after next week

16:11:02 <pgroth> ACTION-62 - Provide a preliminary simplified introduction to the data model

Paul Groth: ACTION-62 - Provide a preliminary simplified introduction to the data model

16:11:02 <trackbot> ACTION-62 Provide a preliminary simplified introduction to the data model 16 Feb notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-62 Provide a preliminary simplified introduction to the data model 16 Feb notes added

16:11:23 <MacTed> action-62?

Ted Thibodeau: ACTION-62?

16:11:23 <trackbot> ACTION-62 -- Luc Moreau to provide a preliminary simplified introduction to the data model 16 Feb -- due 2012-02-16 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-62 -- Luc Moreau to provide a preliminary simplified introduction to the data model 16 Feb -- due 2012-02-16 -- OPEN

16:11:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/62

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/62

16:11:30 <Luc> - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvDMWorkingDraft4

Luc Moreau: - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvDMWorkingDraft4

16:11:31 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  update and produce intro to simplification

Paul Groth: update and produce intro to simplification

16:11:51 <ERICstephan> Luc:  Wiki page describes current work

Luc Moreau: Wiki page describes current work

16:12:29 <ERICstephan> Luc:  3 parts, dropping the notion of account records

Luc Moreau: 3 parts, dropping the notion of account records

16:12:35 <Zakim> +??P38

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P38

16:12:50 <ERICstephan> Luc:  3 levels of description and removed one of the levels, positive feedback

Luc Moreau: 3 levels of description and removed one of the levels, positive feedback

16:13:23 <ERICstephan> Luc:  2nd doc, events, attributes been given values over periods of time, and constraints designed to data model

Luc Moreau: 2nd doc, events, attributes been given values over periods of time, and constraints designed to data model

16:13:32 <Zakim> -Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda

16:13:59 <ERICstephan> Luc:  Last section, scrappy vs proper provenance. Consider various levels of description provide different refinements

Luc Moreau: Last section, scrappy vs proper provenance. Consider various levels of description provide different refinements

16:14:30 <ERICstephan> Luc:  Move out the grammer and put it in a different document

Luc Moreau: Move out the grammer and put it in a different document

16:14:42 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

16:14:45 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:14:52 <pgroth> q-

Paul Groth: q-

16:15:02 <dgarijo> @Eric: I think it's scruffy, not scruppy ;)

Daniel Garijo: @Eric: I think it's scruffy, not scruppy ;)

16:15:24 <ERICstephan> Luc:  at the moment, the working copy there is not an editors draft yet

Luc Moreau: at the moment, the working copy there is not an editors draft yet

16:15:39 <pgroth> Goals of the review:

Paul Groth: Goals of the review:

16:15:41 <pgroth> decide whether the new documents are inline with the simplification objective

Paul Groth: decide whether the new documents are inline with the simplification objective

16:15:46 <pgroth> recommend whether they become the new editor's draft

Paul Groth: recommend whether they become the new editor's draft

16:15:50 <ERICstephan> for the reviewers, do the documents align with the simplification goals

for the reviewers, do the documents align with the simplification goals

16:16:21 <ERICstephan> Luc:  (these comments written by me from Luc)

Luc Moreau: (these comments written by me from Luc)

16:16:54 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:16:55 <ERICstephan> Luc:  If we can get agreement based on recommendations from the reviewers next week

Luc Moreau: If we can get agreement based on recommendations from the reviewers next week

16:17:00 <ERICstephan> +q

+q

16:17:12 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

16:17:12 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

16:17:13 <MacTed> q+

Ted Thibodeau: q+

16:17:17 <pgroth> ack ERICstephan

Paul Groth: ack ERICstephan

16:17:18 <Zakim> +??P51

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P51

16:17:43 <pgroth> ack MacTed

Paul Groth: ack MacTed

16:18:18 <ERICstephan> MacTed:  How do you give editor comments "this sentence is unweildy" (example)

Ted Thibodeau: How do you give editor comments "this sentence is unweildy" (example)

16:18:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa]

16:18:27 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:18:29 <ERICstephan> Luc:  Add it to wiki page

Luc Moreau: Add it to http:\

16:18:51 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  assign specific reviewers with specific tasks

Paul Groth: assign specific reviewers with specific tasks

16:19:01 <Luc> @helena, these are internal reviewers

Luc Moreau: @helena, these are internal reviewers

16:19:03 <MacTed> s/wiki page/http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2011\/prov\/wiki\/ProvDMWorkingDraft4#Feedback_on_These_Working_Copies/
16:19:05 <pgroth> TimL

Paul Groth: TimL

16:19:11 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

16:19:49 <jun> I can also do it

Jun Zhao: I can also do it

16:19:51 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  confirm Tim +1, Eric +1, Graham ?, Daniel + 1, MacTed +1, Curt +1 (already done)

Paul Groth: confirm Tim +1, Eric +1, Graham ?, Daniel + 1, MacTed +1, Curt +1 (already done)

16:20:02 <SamCoppens> I can also

Sam Coppens: I can also

16:20:13 <pgroth> EricS, Daniel, Jun, MacTed, Curt, SamCoppens

Paul Groth: EricS, Daniel, Jun, MacTed, Curt, SamCoppens

16:20:23 <jun> the new structure looks good at a glance

Jun Zhao: the new structure looks good at a glance

16:20:52 <pgroth> Topic: PROV-O Ontology updated

3. PROV-O Ontology updated

Summary: Satya went over an updated OWL file for prov-o. Reviewers agreed to review the ontology within 1 week according to the criteria listed in the minutes. Reviewers were Luc, Paolo, EricS, Stephen, Curt.

<pgroth> Summary: Satya went over an updated OWL file for prov-o. Reviewers agreed to review the ontology within 1 week according to the criteria listed in the minutes. Reviewers were  Luc, Paolo, EricS, Stephen, Curt.
16:20:55 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

16:21:09 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  next topic, updated OWL file

Paul Groth: next topic, updated OWL file

16:21:12 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:21:26 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  released and Satya update?

Paul Groth: released and Satya update?

16:21:27 <jun> zakim, +[IPcaller] is me

Jun Zhao: zakim, +[IPcaller] is me

16:21:27 <Zakim> sorry, jun, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, jun, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'

16:21:37 <jun> zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Jun Zhao: zakim, [IPcaller] is me

16:21:37 <Zakim> +jun; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it

16:22:04 <satya> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF

Satya Sahoo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF

16:22:16 <dgarijo> and the summaries of the call are at: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology

Daniel Garijo: and the summaries of the call are at: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology

16:22:26 <ERICstephan> satya:  after 2 weeks agreed on a series of changes

Satya Sahoo: after 2 weeks agreed on a series of changes

16:22:46 <pgroth> owl file is at: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/ontology/ProvenanceOntology.owl

Paul Groth: owl file is at: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/ontology/ProvenanceOntology.owl

16:23:04 <ERICstephan> satya:  all incorporated in doc, there are still a number of issues, but for now the most recent changes have been reflected

Satya Sahoo: all incorporated in doc, there are still a number of issues, but for now the most recent changes have been reflected

16:23:10 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:23:44 <dgarijo> Changes (which are the titan pad logs): http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2012-02-13, http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2012-02-14

Daniel Garijo: Changes (which are the titan pad logs): http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2012-02-13, http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2012-02-14

16:23:57 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  PROV-O, does it have a good alignment with PROV-DM working draft 3?

Paul Groth: PROV-O, does it have a good alignment with PROV-DM working draft 3?

16:24:15 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  has the ontology provide a simplified naming?

Paul Groth: has the ontology provide a simplified naming?

16:24:40 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  does the ontology fit within OWL with itself and does it create some type of natural RDF?

Paul Groth: does the ontology fit within OWL with itself and does it create some type of natural RDF?

16:25:01 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:25:08 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:25:15 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

16:25:16 <ERICstephan> pgroth: reviewers, does it meet these goals any questions on review period

Paul Groth: reviewers, does it meet these goals any questions on review period

16:25:37 <ERICstephan> luc:  what process are we going to use to align PROV-O and PROV-DM?

Luc Moreau: what process are we going to use to align PROV-O and PROV-DM?

16:25:49 <dgarijo> +q

Daniel Garijo: +q

16:25:56 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  good question can we defer to next section?

Paul Groth: good question can we defer to next section?

16:26:01 <pgroth> ack dgarijo

Paul Groth: ack dgarijo

16:26:31 <ERICstephan> dgarijo:  alignment be discussed in PROV-O task force?

Daniel Garijo: alignment be discussed in PROV-O task force?

16:26:42 <ERICstephan> Luc:  alignment could be both directions

Luc Moreau: alignment could be both directions

16:27:22 <jcheney> alignment deliverable ==? ProvRDF?

James Cheney: alignment deliverable ==? ProvRDF?

16:27:25 <dgarijo> +1 to pgroth.

Daniel Garijo: +1 to pgroth.

16:27:26 <ERICstephan> Luc:  alignmnet deliverable and raise issues against that?

Luc Moreau: alignmnet deliverable and raise issues against that?

16:27:40 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:28:28 <dgarijo> smiles and Jun have already provided some feedback :)

Daniel Garijo: smiles and Jun have already provided some feedback :)

16:28:29 <stephenc> OK

Stephen Cresswell: OK

16:28:36 <Curt> I'll be going over PROV-O too.

Curt Tilmes: I'll be going over PROV-O too.

16:28:55 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  another one week review, confirm, Luc +1, Paolo +1, Eric +1, Stephen C +1, Curt +1

Paul Groth: another one week review, confirm, Luc +1, Paolo +1, Eric +1, Stephen C +1, Curt +1

16:28:58 <pgroth> Review prov-o: Luc, paolo, EricS, Stephen, Curt

Paul Groth: Review prov-o: Luc, paolo, EricS, Stephen, Curt

16:29:14 <satya> Thanks everyone for the reviewing!

Satya Sahoo: Thanks everyone for the reviewing!

16:29:29 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:29:31 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  same process applies, goes to list and we talk about it next week.

Paul Groth: same process applies, goes to list and we talk about it next week.

16:29:37 <pgroth> Topic: ProvRDF Mappings

4. ProvRDF Mappings

Summary: The ProvRDF mappings were largely complete. The group agreed on a process to harmonize the prov-dm and prov-o via the mappings page. A new product (Product 9) corresponding to the ProvRDF mappings was created in the tracker. Issues with respect to harmonization should be raised there.

<pgroth>Summary: The ProvRDF mappings were largely complete. The group agreed on a process to harmonize the prov-dm and prov-o via the mappings page. A new product (Product 9) corresponding to the ProvRDF mappings was created in the tracker. Issues with respect to harmonization should be raised there.
16:30:49 <ERICstephan> jcheney:  did this for a small subset for PROV-DM during f2f2.

James Cheney: did this for a small subset for PROV-DM during f2f2.

16:31:05 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aa]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.aa]

16:31:18 <ERICstephan> jcheney:  Tim has been adding record form from PROV-DM to collections of RDF triples

James Cheney: Tim has been adding record form from PROV-DM to collections of RDF triples

16:31:22 <ERICstephan> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF

http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF

16:32:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:32:57 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:33:25 <dgarijo> yes, more or less.

Daniel Garijo: yes, more or less.

16:33:28 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  Is what we see in the doc, in the right hand side of the page reflect the current prov-o ontology?

Paul Groth: Is what we see in the doc, in the right hand side of the page reflect the current prov-o ontology?

16:33:45 <tlebo> @paul, that is the intent. If the RHS are not aligned with the OWL file, ISSUES should be raised.

Timothy Lebo: @paul, that is the intent. If the RHS are not aligned with the OWL file, ISSUES should be raised.

16:35:02 <ERICstephan> jcheney:  left hand side match DM working draft 3

James Cheney: left hand side match DM working draft 3

16:35:26 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:35:46 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  how do we sync prov-o prov-dm?

Paul Groth: how do we sync prov-o prov-dm?

16:35:48 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:36:22 <jcheney> q+

James Cheney: q+

16:36:22 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  in the issue tracker, make a new deliverable for mappings, if inconsistencies report them there.

Paul Groth: in the issue tracker, make a new deliverable for mappings, if inconsistencies report them there.

16:36:23 <satya> +1 @Paul

Satya Sahoo: +1 @Paul

16:36:24 <dgarijo> @pgroth:+1

Daniel Garijo: @pgroth:+1

16:37:00 <tlebo> q+ to ask if it can become an appendix of the PROV-O HTML

Timothy Lebo: q+ to ask if it can become an appendix of the PROV-O HTML

16:37:01 <ERICstephan> jcheney:  making deliverable in tracker, that it makes a separate deliverable in working group?  Paulg no

James Cheney: making deliverable in tracker, that it makes a separate deliverable in working group? Paulg no

16:37:05 <pgroth> ack jcheney

Paul Groth: ack jcheney

16:37:12 <pgroth> ack tlebo

Paul Groth: ack tlebo

16:37:13 <Zakim> tlebo, you wanted to ask if it can become an appendix of the PROV-O HTML

Zakim IRC Bot: tlebo, you wanted to ask if it can become an appendix of the PROV-O HTML

16:37:22 <satya> @Tim: I agree

Satya Sahoo: @Tim: I agree

16:37:37 <ERICstephan> tlebo:  useful and at least interesting to PROV-O html doc

Timothy Lebo: useful and at least interesting to PROV-O html doc

16:37:38 <dgarijo> +1 to Tim's point.

Daniel Garijo: +1 to Tim's point.

16:37:55 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:38:02 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:38:07 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth

16:38:07 <dgarijo> If it helped us, it could help other people too...

Daniel Garijo: If it helped us, it could help other people too...

16:38:12 <pgroth> ack I hung up

Paul Groth: ack I hung up

16:38:21 <ERICstephan> luc:  we can close action-56?

Luc Moreau: we can close ACTION-56?

16:38:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa]

16:38:37 <ERICstephan> jcheney: +1

James Cheney: +1

16:38:56 <ERICstephan> satya:  action on me is closed?

Satya Sahoo: action on me is closed?

16:39:05 <pgroth> Zakim, IPcaller.aa is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, IPcaller.aa is me

16:39:05 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

16:39:10 <satya> ok

Satya Sahoo: ok

16:39:11 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  action is still open based on action-105

Paul Groth: action is still open based on ACTION-105

16:39:13 <satya> thanks!

Satya Sahoo: thanks!

16:39:17 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:39:28 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

16:39:57 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  okay on deliverable on RDF mappings?

Paul Groth: okay on deliverable on RDF mappings?

16:40:03 <ERICstephan> who spoke?

who spoke?

16:40:09 <tlebo> macted did

Timothy Lebo: macted did

16:40:20 <ERICstephan> MacTed: not sure this is going to meet the goals of harmonization

Ted Thibodeau: not sure this is going to meet the goals of harmonization

16:40:44 <tlebo> @macted, what are you looking for?

Timothy Lebo: @macted, what are you looking for?

16:40:54 <Luc> created https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/9

Luc Moreau: created https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/9

16:40:54 <satya> can you please explain macted?

Satya Sahoo: can you please explain macted?

16:41:02 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/HarmonizingProvDMAndProvO

James Cheney: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/HarmonizingProvDMAndProvO

16:41:04 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:41:14 <dgarijo> @satya: I think he is just concerned about the naming

Daniel Garijo: @satya: I think he is just concerned about the naming

16:41:17 <ERICstephan> satya:  What are you suggesting macted?

Satya Sahoo: What are you suggesting macted?

16:41:18 <dgarijo> of the document..

Daniel Garijo: of the document..

16:41:45 <ERICstephan> MacTed:  harmony does not equate to RDF mapping to me

Ted Thibodeau: harmony does not equate to RDF mapping to me

16:42:08 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

16:42:41 <pgroth> Raise Issue against Product 9

Paul Groth: Raise Issue against Product 9

16:42:41 <ERICstephan> luc:  posting url to new product I created, to raise issues in the tracker between PROV-DM and PROV-O

Luc Moreau: posting url to new product I created, to raise issues in the tracker between PROV-DM and PROV-O

16:43:03 <pgroth> Topic: Timetable for Release

5. Timetable for Release

Summary: A discussion on when we could release a synchronous set of working drafts between prov-dm, prov-o and prov-primer. March 14 was proposed as a deadline, however, it was unclear whether this would be viable in terms of both delivery and progress on other drafts. It was decided to finalize this at the next telecon.

<pgroth> Summary: A discussion on when we could release a synchronous set of working drafts between prov-dm, prov-o and prov-primer. March 14 was proposed as a deadline, however, it was unclear whether this would be viable in terms of both delivery and progress on other drafts.  It was decided to finalize this at the next telecon.
16:43:42 <satya> @Luc, I just mailed you to close ISSUE-105

Satya Sahoo: @Luc, I just mailed you to close ISSUE-105

16:43:59 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  what should be the goal of the release?

Paul Groth: what should be the goal of the release?

16:44:12 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:44:14 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:44:16 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:44:53 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+

16:45:21 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:45:24 <pgroth> ack satya

Paul Groth: ack satya

16:45:38 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

16:45:42 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  sync one version of working draft against another for ( Prov-dm, prov-o, and prov-primer)

Paul Groth: sync one version of working draft against another for ( Prov-dm, prov-o, and prov-primer)

16:45:54 <Zakim> -Helena

Zakim IRC Bot: -Helena

16:46:20 <ERICstephan> luc:  the whole point was that we change the presentation, simplify, but we do not change any of the terms

Luc Moreau: the whole point was that we change the presentation, simplify, but we do not change any of the terms

16:46:31 <dgarijo> so then we are already done :D :D

Daniel Garijo: so then we are already done :D :D

16:46:46 <dgarijo> @satya: Account is now "bundle"

Daniel Garijo: @satya: Account is now "bundle"

16:46:47 <ERICstephan> luc:  if you have aligned the prov-o to the current working draft you have aligned them

Luc Moreau: if you have aligned the prov-o to the current working draft you have aligned them

16:47:14 <Luc> @Satya, i closed issue-105 and action-52

Luc Moreau: @Satya, i closed ISSUE-105 and ACTION-52

16:47:29 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  those set of issues need to be addressed before wd4

Paul Groth: those set of issues need to be addressed before wd4

16:47:41 <ERICstephan> luc:  wd4 March 1

Luc Moreau: wd4 March 1

16:48:07 <ERICstephan> luc:  without sync with prov-o

Luc Moreau: without sync with prov-o

16:49:16 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  when do we do a sync release  within the group?  reviews this week, two weeks for alignment, propose March 14?

Paul Groth: when do we do a sync release within the group? reviews this week, two weeks for alignment, propose March 14?

16:49:18 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:50:00 <pgroth> Deadline to release internally to the WG for review of primer + dm + ontology sync release March 14

Paul Groth: Deadline to release internally to the WG for review of primer + dm + ontology sync release March 14

16:50:03 <Zakim> +Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yolanda

16:50:32 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:50:48 <ERICstephan> luc:  what does the prov-o team think?

Luc Moreau: what does the prov-o team think?

16:50:56 <satya> yes, we now concentrate on html

Satya Sahoo: yes, we now concentrate on html

16:51:03 <satya> document

Satya Sahoo: document

16:51:39 <ERICstephan> satya:  On our monday meeting we are already started restructuring HTML, maybe by next Thursday report progress?

Satya Sahoo: On our monday meeting we are already started restructuring HTML, maybe by next Thursday report progress?

16:51:56 <ERICstephan> satya:  maybe 2 weeks time reasonable?

Satya Sahoo: maybe 2 weeks time reasonable?

16:51:58 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:52:40 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  key comments, is raising all issues on the mapping styles and harmonization products, what is remaining to achieve harmonization?

Paul Groth: key comments, is raising all issues on the mapping styles and harmonization products, what is remaining to achieve harmonization?

16:52:54 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  I think we should aim for 14th

Paul Groth: I think we should aim for 14th

16:52:58 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:53:19 <ERICstephan> luc:  concern that we are drifting again on the time table.

Luc Moreau: concern that we are drifting again on the time table.

16:53:56 <ERICstephan> luc:  We need to Start working on 5th working draft

Luc Moreau: We need to Start working on 5th working draft

16:54:31 <ERICstephan> luc:  working in parallel on 5th working draft

Luc Moreau: working in parallel on 5th working draft

16:55:12 <ERICstephan> luc:  finalize timeline next week?

Luc Moreau: finalize timeline next week?

16:55:15 <pgroth> suggestion March 14, but finalize next week

Paul Groth: suggestion March 14, but finalize next week

16:55:21 <ERICstephan> +1 agree with luc

+1 agree with luc

16:55:26 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:55:28 <tlebo> q+ did the content of http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF get moved to another page?

Timothy Lebo: q+ did the content of http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF get moved to another page?

16:56:33 <pgroth> Topic: Agent Types

6. Agent Types

Summary: A discussion was had about renaming of the current agent subtypes. There was believed to be consensus on the mailing list for renaming. However, there was no consensus on the call. Use cases for agent subtypes from prior working group discussions were asked for. Paul agreed to send a pointer to the mailing list.

<pgroth> Summary: A discussion was had about renaming of the current agent subtypes. There was believed to be consensus on the mailing list for renaming. However, there was no consensus on the call. Use cases for agent subtypes from prior  working group discussions were asked for. Paul agreed to send a pointer to the mailing list.
16:56:44 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  Tim it stays where its been

Paul Groth: Tim it stays where its been

16:57:14 <tlebo> q-

Timothy Lebo: q-

16:57:17 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  agent typings discussion in the mail list

Paul Groth: agent typings discussion in the mail list

16:57:32 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  concerns about not broad enough use cases

Paul Groth: concerns about not broad enough use cases

16:57:37 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Feb/0225.html

Paul Groth: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Feb/0225.html

16:58:03 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  can we get concensus for a vote today?

Paul Groth: can we get concensus for a vote today?

16:58:08 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a]

16:58:31 <pgroth> Current - Person, Software Agent, Organization

Paul Groth: Current - Person, Software Agent, Organization

16:58:50 <pgroth> Proposal - Change core agent subtypes to Human, System, Organization

Paul Groth: Proposal - Change core agent subtypes to Human, System, Organization

16:58:55 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:59:00 <Curt> European (Organisation) or American (Organization) spelling?

Curt Tilmes: European (Organisation) or American (Organization) spelling?

16:59:18 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:59:26 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+

16:59:26 <MacTed> +1 to change, with z spelling

Ted Thibodeau: +1 to change, with z spelling

16:59:32 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1

16:59:51 <tlebo> -1 b/c organizations are systems

Timothy Lebo: -1 b/c organizations are systems

17:00:14 <Luc> @paul, wasn't it ComputingSystem ?

Luc Moreau: @paul, wasn't it ComputingSystem ?

17:00:17 <dgarijo> @tim: but they are not all disjoint, right?

Daniel Garijo: @tim: but they are not all disjoint, right?

17:00:35 <Curt> +1 Systems can include persons or organizations, but are still distinct from them

Curt Tilmes: +1 Systems can include persons or organizations, but are still distinct from them

17:00:37 <dgarijo> @tim: so an Organization CAN be a system.

Daniel Garijo: @tim: so an Organization CAN be a system.

17:01:01 <dgarijo> I'd say that Human and System are disjoint though.

Daniel Garijo: I'd say that Human and System are disjoint though.

17:01:21 <stephenc> Would prov:Human be a subclass of  foaf:Person?

Stephen Cresswell: Would prov:Human be a subclass of foaf:Person?

17:01:29 <zednik_> q+

Stephan Zednik: q+

17:01:34 <satya> q-

Satya Sahoo: q-

17:01:39 <pgroth> ack zednik

Paul Groth: ack zednik

17:01:40 <ERICstephan> satya:  when a human is not regarded in the context of an agent is there a problem?

Satya Sahoo: when a human is not regarded in the context of an agent is there a problem?

17:01:44 <tlebo> abstain. Agent has been hard enough. I'll make my own subtypes.

Timothy Lebo: abstain. Agent has been hard enough. I'll make my own subtypes.

17:01:56 <dgarijo> +q

Daniel Garijo: +q

17:02:15 <ERICstephan> zednik:  Why human over person?

Stephan Zednik: Why human over person?

17:02:27 <pgroth> ack dgarijo

Paul Groth: ack dgarijo

17:02:45 <ERICstephan> what if an animal is an agent?

what if an animal is an agent?

17:03:09 <ERICstephan> agreed with tlebo

agreed with tlebo

17:03:42 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

17:03:42 <zednik_> q+

Stephan Zednik: q+

17:03:51 <pgroth> ack zednik_

Paul Groth: ack zednik_

17:03:52 <MacTed> thinking deeper....  foaf:Person <> prov:Person, which is clearer if we say prov:Human

Ted Thibodeau: thinking deeper.... foaf:Person <> prov:Person, which is clearer if we say prov:Human

17:04:10 <jun> do we have a use case to drive sub-typing agent? I am against over sub-typing

Jun Zhao: do we have a use case to drive sub-typing agent? I am against over sub-typing

17:04:10 <MacTed> - prov:Human may be but is not necessarily prov:Agent

Ted Thibodeau: - prov:Human may be but is not necessarily prov:Agent

17:04:46 <ERICstephan> zednik:  talk about humans without typing them automatically to agent?

Stephan Zednik: talk about humans without typing them automatically to agent?

17:04:53 <jun> q+

Jun Zhao: q+

17:05:00 <MacTed> - prov:Agent might have *range* (as opposed to subClass) which includes foaf:Person, prov:Human, prov:Person...

Ted Thibodeau: - prov:Agent might have *range* (as opposed to subClass) which includes foaf:Person, prov:Human, prov:Person...

17:05:02 <pgroth> ack jun

Paul Groth: ack jun

17:05:08 <tlebo> +1 to avoiding direct connection to FOAF.

Timothy Lebo: +1 to avoiding direct connection to FOAF.

17:05:12 <dgarijo> @why are you against? If prov is supposed to be a generic ontology, you will have to adapt it to you domain imo

Daniel Garijo: @why are you against? If prov is supposed to be a generic ontology, you will have to adapt it to you domain imo

17:05:22 <dgarijo> @jun

Daniel Garijo: @jun

17:05:52 <ERICstephan> jun:  what is driving this task?

Jun Zhao: what is driving this task?

17:06:12 <satya> @Jun, +1 - subytping leads to reduced interoperability

Satya Sahoo: @Jun, +1 - subytping leads to reduced interoperability

17:06:24 <Zakim> -Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda

17:06:25 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  We already agreed about these broad categories and wanted to get agreement on naming

Paul Groth: We already agreed about these broad categories and wanted to get agreement on naming

17:06:47 <zednik_> is agent itself enough to address the use cases?

Stephan Zednik: is agent itself enough to address the use cases?

17:06:52 <ERICstephan> MacTed:  What is the distinction?

Ted Thibodeau: What is the distinction?

17:07:17 <Luc> and originally software ...

Luc Moreau: and originally software ...

17:07:24 <ERICstephan> MacTed:  Human and Inhuman?

Ted Thibodeau: Human and Inhuman?

17:07:59 <jcheney> Suggest Nonhuman instead of Inhuman - a human can be inhuman.

James Cheney: Suggest Nonhuman instead of Inhuman - a human can be inhuman.

17:08:10 <ERICstephan> link to use case?

link to use case?

17:08:13 <tlebo> is a foaf:Organization Human or InHuman?

Timothy Lebo: is a foaf:Organization Human or InHuman?

17:08:27 <zednik_> what attributes are different for human vs nonhuman in prov?

Stephan Zednik: what attributes are different for human vs nonhuman in prov?

17:08:47 <jun> @jcheney, +1. if we have to have it, then at least we have nonhuman

Jun Zhao: @jcheney, +1. if we have to have it, then at least we have nonhuman

17:08:50 <zednik_> what relations are different for human vs nonhuman?

Stephan Zednik: what relations are different for human vs nonhuman?

17:08:53 <satya> jcheney, tlebo :)

Satya Sahoo: jcheney, tlebo :)

17:09:17 <MacTed> human vs nonhuman is fine with me ... once I understand why the distinction is necessary here...

Ted Thibodeau: human vs nonhuman is fine with me ... once I understand why the distinction is necessary here...

17:09:21 <tlebo> we can kill -9 NonHuman without going to jail

Timothy Lebo: we can kill -9 NonHuman without going to jail

17:09:38 <ERICstephan> lol tlebo

lol tlebo

17:09:41 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Feb/0159.html

Paul Groth: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Feb/0159.html

17:09:42 <MacTed> but corporations are people!  ;-)

Ted Thibodeau: but corporations are people! ;-)

17:09:56 <ERICstephan> is a cow a system on a dairy farm?

is a cow a system on a dairy farm?

17:10:56 <satya> I think this is one of our best discussion in the WG :o)

Satya Sahoo: I think this is one of our best discussion in the WG :o)

17:11:16 <zednik_> what is our definition of system?

Stephan Zednik: what is our definition of system?

17:11:22 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

17:11:44 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

17:11:59 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

17:12:04 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  there is a key use case, it looks like there was naming, but we get on phone call and no consensus.

Paul Groth: there is a key use case, it looks like there was naming, but we get on phone call and no consensus.

17:12:37 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  would like to issue this to be done.  This is a necessary to have.

Paul Groth: would like to issue this to be done. This is a necessary to have.

17:13:06 <ERICstephan> pgroth:  Will email around again this use case.

Paul Groth: Will email around again this use case.

17:13:30 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo

17:13:31 <tlebo> bye bye!

Timothy Lebo: bye bye!

17:13:32 <Zakim> -tlebo

Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo

17:13:33 <Zakim> -jun

Zakim IRC Bot: -jun

17:13:33 <Zakim> -??P38

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P38

17:13:34 <zednik_> bye

Stephan Zednik: bye

17:13:35 <Zakim> -jcheney

Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney

17:13:36 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth

17:13:36 <Zakim> -dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo

17:13:39 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

17:13:40 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes

17:13:40 <Zakim> -SamCoppens

Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens

17:13:42 <Zakim> -Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc

17:13:42 <ERICstephan> bye

bye

17:13:46 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

17:13:48 <Zakim> - +1.509.967.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.967.aaaa

17:13:51 <Zakim> -??P51

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P51

17:15:05 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public

Paul Groth: rrsagent, set log public

17:15:11 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes

Paul Groth: rrsagent, draft minutes

17:15:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-prov-minutes.html pgroth

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-prov-minutes.html pgroth

17:15:16 <pgroth> trackbot, end telecon

Paul Groth: trackbot, end telecon

17:15:16 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

17:15:16 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, +1.509.967.aaaa, Luc, Curt_Tilmes, SamCoppens, Helena, tlebo, dgarijo?, MacTed, Yolanda, jcheney, Satya_Sahoo, jun, [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, +1.509.967.aaaa, Luc, Curt_Tilmes, SamCoppens, Helena, tlebo, dgarijo?, MacTed, Yolanda, jcheney, Satya_Sahoo, jun, [IPcaller]

17:15:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

17:15:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-prov-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-prov-minutes.html trackbot

17:15:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

17:15:25 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items



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This revision (#2) generated 2012-02-23 09:43:34 UTC by 'pgroth', comments: 'minor changes to improve readability'