Provenance Working Group Teleconference Minutes, 19 May 2011

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes ←

Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (28%) ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, ←

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, dgarijo, I do not recognize a party named '1.805.893.aacc' ←

Christine Runnegar: Hi. Sorry everyone. I'm not sure how to assign myself. Calling using VOIP. (Thanks Luc, you did send instructions.) ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, ←

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.518.633.aadd, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, ??P8 ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, ←

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.518.633.aadd, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, frew, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, zednik, jun, ←

15:07:02 <smiles> SUBTOPIC: Last week's minutes

1.1. Last week's minutes

15:07:13 <pgroth> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of 12 May telecon

PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of 12 May telecon ←

15:07:20 <simoninireland> +1

Simon Dobson: +1 ←

15:07:21 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:07:21 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←

15:07:22 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1 ←

15:07:23 <DavidSchaengold> +1

david schaengold: +1 ←

15:07:23 <smiles> +1

+1 ←

15:07:23 <SamCoppens> zakim, +??44 is SamCoppens

Sam Coppens: zakim, +??44 is SamCoppens ←

15:07:23 <Zakim> sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '+??44'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '+??44' ←

15:07:24 <frew> +1

James Frew: +1 ←

15:07:25 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1 ←

15:07:26 <jorn> +1

Jörn Hees: +1 ←

15:07:28 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1 ←

15:07:29 <Edoardo_and_David> +1

Scribe problem: the name 'Edoardo_and_David' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ilkay Altintas Khalid Belhajjame James Cheney Sam Coppens David Corsar Helena Deus Simon Dobson Martin Doerr Kai Eckert Jean-Pierre EVAIN James Frew Irini Fundulaki Daniel Garijo Paul Groth Olaf Hartig David Hau Sandro Hawke Jörn Hees Iker Huerga Graham Klyne Timothy Lebo Deborah McGuinness Simon Miles Luc Moreau James Myers Vinh Nguyen Edoardo (Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti Paulo Pinheiro da Silva Carl Reed Christine Runnegar david schaengold Daniel Schutzer Eric Stephan Linda Stewart Maria Theodoridou Ted Thibodeau Stephan Zednik Jun Zhao Paolo Missier Satya Sahoo Yogesh Simmhan Yolanda Gil Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Edoardo_and_David: +1 ←

15:07:37 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1 ←

15:07:42 <olaf> +1

Olaf Hartig: +1 ←

15:07:45 <iker> +1

Iker Huerga: +1 ←

15:07:46 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1 ←

15:07:48 <SamCoppens> zakim, ??44 is SamCoppens

Sam Coppens: zakim, ??44 is SamCoppens ←

15:07:49 <Zakim> sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '??44'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '??44' ←

15:07:55 <GK> Zakim, who's on the phone?

Graham Klyne: Zakim, who's on the phone? ←

15:07:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1-805-893-7356, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1-805-893-7356, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, ←

15:08:01 <Zakim> ... zednik, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame, ??P17, Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: ... zednik, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame, ??P17, Yolanda ←

15:08:04 <jorn> zakim, who is talking?

Jörn Hees: zakim, who is talking? ←

15:08:14 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 25 (3%), pgroth (54%), DavidSchaengold (24%), ??P35 (51%), ??P44 (12%)

Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 25 (3%), pgroth (54%), DavidSchaengold (24%), ??P35 (51%), ??P44 (12%) ←

15:08:16 <pgroth> RESOLVED: minutes accepted

RESOLVED: minutes accepted ←

15:08:17 <smiles> SUBTOPIC: Action items to review

1.2. Action items to review

15:08:18 <pgroth>    http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open ←

15:08:25 <tlebo> Zakim, ??P44 is SamCoppens

Timothy Lebo: Zakim, ??P44 is SamCoppens ←

15:08:25 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it ←

15:08:31 <SamCoppens> thanks

Sam Coppens: thanks ←

15:09:02 <smiles> pgroth: completed action to add links to examples (active topics from front Wiki page)

Paul Groth: completed action to add links to examples (active topics from front Wiki page) ←

15:09:14 <frew> zakim, +1-805-893-7356 is me

James Frew: zakim, +1-805-893-7356 is me ←

15:09:14 <Zakim> +frew; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +frew; got it ←

15:09:23 <smiles> ... I encourage all to add links to the front page when there are new active topics

... I encourage all to add links to the front page when there are new active topics ←

15:09:41 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+ ←

15:09:46 <pgroth> ack frew

Paul Groth: ack frew ←

15:09:54 <smiles> SUBTOPIC: Invited experts update

1.3. Invited experts update

15:09:55 <smiles> pgroth: slowly resolving issues regarding getting everyone into the group, and on the mailing list

Paul Groth: slowly resolving issues regarding getting everyone into the group, and on the mailing list ←

15:10:07 <GK> Zakim, who's on the phone?

Graham Klyne: Zakim, who's on the phone? ←

15:10:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, frew, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, zednik, jun,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, frew, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, zednik, jun, ←

15:10:10 <Zakim> ... Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame, ??P17, Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame, ??P17, Yolanda ←

15:10:19 <smiles> satya: how soon will invited expert issues be resolved?

Satya Sahoo: how soon will invited expert issues be resolved? ←

15:10:30 <satya> q-

Satya Sahoo: q- ←

15:10:37 <Zakim> -SamCoppens

Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens ←

15:10:44 <smiles> pgroth: don't know, this is an issue that the W3C handles

Paul Groth: don't know, this is an issue that the W3C handles ←

15:10:47 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes ←

15:11:01 <Zakim> +??P44

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P44 ←

15:11:13 <GK> zakim, ??P44 is me

Graham Klyne: zakim, ??P44 is me ←

15:11:13 <Zakim> +GK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it ←

15:11:16 <smiles> SUBTOPIC: Scribes

1.4. Scribes

15:11:17 <smiles> pgroth: we need scribes for the next weeks - please add you names, else will pick on people

Paul Groth: we need scribes for the next weeks - please add you names, else will pick on people ←

15:11:36 <luc> see instructions http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/HowToSetUp

Luc Moreau: see instructions http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/HowToSetUp ←

15:11:53 <luc> we can help set up before meeting

Luc Moreau: we can help set up before meeting ←

15:12:03 <smiles> pgroth: the responsibility of scribes is to write summaries of what people say, and instructions are available at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/HowToSetUp

Paul Groth: the responsibility of scribes is to write summaries of what people say, and instructions are available at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/HowToSetUp ←

15:12:27 <pgroth>  http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample ←

15:12:42 <smiles> TOPIC: Data journalism example

2. Data journalism example

Summary: We will use the current example to start model discussions, but can continue to comment on it on the mailing list, and will extend it when we find it cannot illustrate an important concept.

15:12:43 <smiles> SUMMARY: We will use the current example to start model discussions, but can continue to comment on it on the mailing list, and will extend it when we find it cannot illustrate an important concept.

15:12:56 <jorn> zakim,, who|s noisy

Jörn Hees: zakim,, who|s noisy ←

15:13:00 <Zakim> I don't understand ', who|s noisy', jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand ', who|s noisy', jorn ←

15:13:05 <smiles> pgroth: we decided to take an example-based approach, comments were received, are there any more?

Paul Groth: we decided to take an example-based approach, comments were received, are there any more? ←

15:13:09 <jorn> zakim, who's noisy

Jörn Hees: zakim, who's noisy ←

15:13:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's noisy', jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who's noisy', jorn ←

15:13:38 <GK> zakim, who is talking

Graham Klyne: zakim, who is talking ←

15:13:38 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', GK

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is talking', GK ←

15:13:46 <jorn> zakim, who is talking?

Jörn Hees: zakim, who is talking? ←

15:13:50 <dgarijo> zakim, who is making noise?

Daniel Garijo: zakim, who is making noise? ←

15:13:54 <Zakim> -jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←

15:13:58 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (19%), +1.518.276.aaaa (4%), Yolanda (51%)

Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (19%), +1.518.276.aaaa (4%), Yolanda (51%) ←

15:14:09 <Zakim> dgarijo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (5%), pgroth (32%), Yolanda (43%)

Zakim IRC Bot: dgarijo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (5%), pgroth (32%), Yolanda (43%) ←

15:14:10 <smiles> YolandaG: likes the example, but where we illustrate what a provenance container is, we need to be clear that not all provenance may be in that container - one may need to access other areas to retrieve other provenance data for the resource

Yolanda Gil: likes the example, but where we illustrate what a provenance container is, we need to be clear that not all provenance may be in that container - one may need to access other areas to retrieve other provenance data for the resource ←

15:14:30 <Zakim> -smiles

Zakim IRC Bot: -smiles ←

15:14:35 <Zakim> +??P45

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P45 ←

15:14:46 <jorn> zakim, ??P45 is me

Jörn Hees: zakim, ??P45 is me ←

15:14:46 <Zakim> +jorn; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←

15:14:56 <jun> +1 to YolandaG

Jun Zhao: +1 to YolandaG ←

15:15:15 <luc> tlebo: multiple sources are not represented yet in the example

Timothy Lebo: multiple sources are not represented yet in the example [ Scribe Assist by Luc Moreau ] ←

15:15:25 <Zakim> +VinhNguyen

Zakim IRC Bot: +VinhNguyen ←

15:15:32 <pgroth> Zakim, mute YolandaG

Paul Groth: Zakim, mute YolandaG ←

15:15:32 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I do not know which phone connection belongs to YolandaG

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pgroth, I do not know which phone connection belongs to YolandaG ←

15:15:35 <Zakim> +??P46

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P46 ←

15:15:40 <pgroth> Zakim, mute Yolanda

Paul Groth: Zakim, mute Yolanda ←

15:15:40 <Zakim> Yolanda should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Yolanda should now be muted ←

15:15:55 <jorn> zakim, who is talking?

Jörn Hees: zakim, who is talking? ←

15:16:02 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q? ←

15:16:06 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (9%), pgroth (43%), DavidSchaengold (13%), ??P35 (14%), smiles (18%)

Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (9%), pgroth (43%), DavidSchaengold (13%), ??P35 (14%), smiles (18%) ←

15:16:38 <smiles> CarlOGC: asks about incorporating a map into the example, and will send to the mailing list a few words to incorporate

Carl Reed: asks about incorporating a map into the example, and will send to the mailing list a few words to incorporate ←

15:16:49 <tlebo> would the group mind expanding the variables used in the scenario? (e.g. lcp1)

Timothy Lebo: would the group mind expanding the variables used in the scenario? (e.g. lcp1) ←

<luc> post meeting editing: lcp stands for local copy

Luc Moreau: post meeting editing: lcp stands for local copy ←

15:17:12 <tlebo> +1 to continuing with example.

Timothy Lebo: +1 to continuing with example. ←

15:17:27 <smiles> pgroth: can we proceed with example as is, and expand as we go along - nice to move on to discussing concepts

Paul Groth: can we proceed with example as is, and expand as we go along - nice to move on to discussing concepts ←

15:17:29 <GK> +1 to moving on, update example as needed.

Graham Klyne: +1 to moving on, update example as needed. ←

15:17:48 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 for continuing to change the example along instead of trying to get right now

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 for continuing to change the example along instead of trying to get right now ←

15:17:55 <pgroth> proposal: continue updating example, but use the data journalism example as it currently stands

PROPOSED: continue updating example, but use the data journalism example as it currently stands ←

15:17:57 <YogeshSimmhan> +1

Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←

15:17:58 <jorn> +1

Jörn Hees: +1 ←

15:18:00 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:18:02 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←

15:18:02 <satya> I agree, we should start with the example and let it evolve

Satya Sahoo: I agree, we should start with the example and let it evolve ←

15:18:02 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1 ←

15:18:03 <olaf> +1 to moving on

Olaf Hartig: +1 to moving on ←

15:18:03 <smiles> +1

+1 ←

15:18:04 <jorn> zakim, who is talking?

Jörn Hees: zakim, who is talking? ←

15:18:06 <Edoardo_and_David> +1

Unknown Edoardo_and_David: +1 ←

15:18:07 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

15:18:09 <paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1 ←

15:18:11 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1 ←

15:18:12 <iker> +1 moving on

Iker Huerga: +1 moving on ←

15:18:15 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (27%)

Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (27%) ←

15:18:18 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1 ←

15:18:19 <simoninireland> +1

Simon Dobson: +1 ←

15:18:20 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1 ←

15:18:23 <jorn> zakim, please mute khalidbelhajjame

Jörn Hees: zakim, please mute khalidbelhajjame ←

15:18:23 <Zakim> khalidbelhajjame should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: khalidbelhajjame should now be muted ←

15:18:28 <VinhNguyen> +1

Vinh Nguyen: +1 ←

15:18:35 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1 ←

15:18:37 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame

Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame ←

15:19:01 <pgroth> proposal accepted

Paul Groth: proposal accepted ←

15:19:01 <smiles> RESOLVED: continue updating example, but use the data journalism example as it currently stands

RESOLVED: continue updating example, but use the data journalism example as it currently stands ←

15:19:02 <tlebo> +q

Timothy Lebo: +q ←

15:19:03 <DavidSchaengold> +1

david schaengold: +1 ←

15:19:15 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←

15:19:28 <smiles> tlebo: what are the next steps beyond making tweaks to scenario?

Timothy Lebo: what are the next steps beyond making tweaks to scenario? ←

15:19:33 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P8 is really me

Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P8 is really me ←

15:19:35 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it ←

15:20:05 <dgarijo> +q

Daniel Garijo: +q ←

15:20:23 <smiles> pgroth: proceed as we have been doing by email to discuss example

Paul Groth: proceed as we have been doing by email to discuss example ←

15:20:40 <luc> ack tlebo

Luc Moreau: ack tlebo ←

15:20:46 <pgroth> ack dgarijo

Paul Groth: ack dgarijo ←

15:20:53 <smiles> dgarijo: proposal to add another example(s) on mailing list, to capture scientific domain

Daniel Garijo: proposal to add another example(s) on mailing list, to capture scientific domain ←

15:20:54 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←

15:20:57 <jorn> zakim, who is noisy?

Jörn Hees: zakim, who is noisy? ←

15:20:58 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+ ←

15:21:11 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidSchaengold (59%), ??P35 (29%)

Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidSchaengold (59%), ??P35 (29%) ←

15:21:17 <tlebo> q?

Timothy Lebo: q? ←

15:21:42 <jorn> zakim, please mute DavidSchaengold

Jörn Hees: zakim, please mute DavidSchaengold ←

15:21:42 <Zakim> DavidSchaengold should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: DavidSchaengold should now be muted ←

15:21:47 <tlebo> q?

Timothy Lebo: q? ←

15:21:52 <Zakim> +??P12

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←

15:22:08 <pgroth> zakim, ??P12 is pgroth

Paul Groth: zakim, ??P12 is pgroth ←

15:22:08 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←

15:22:27 <tlebo> proposal: create an additional example for scientific domain.

PROPOSED: create an additional example for scientific domain. ←

15:22:51 <smiles> luc: we agreed last time to start with first example for discussing concepts, and bring other examples when they are found to be needed

Luc Moreau: we agreed last time to start with first example for discussing concepts, and bring other examples when they are found to be needed ←

15:22:54 <satya> q-

Satya Sahoo: q- ←

15:23:33 <tlebo> +1 working with the example as is.

Timothy Lebo: +1 working with the example as is. ←

15:23:36 <smiles> pgroth: we need to move on discussing concepts, but can keep iterating

Paul Groth: we need to move on discussing concepts, but can keep iterating ←

15:23:58 <smiles> TOPIC: Provenance access and query task force

3. Provenance access and query task force

Summary: The Provenance Access and Query Task Force will start from the incubator group report for developing a draft architecture. We will not design a query language, but will say how existing query languages/models work with the architecture.

15:23:59 <smiles> SUMMARY: The Provenance Access and Query Task Force will start from the incubator group report for developing a draft architecture. We will not design a query language, but will say how existing query languages/models work with the architecture.

15:24:04 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0071.html

Paul Groth: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0071.html ←

15:24:15 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Access_and_Query_Task_Force

Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Access_and_Query_Task_Force ←

15:24:31 <smiles> pgroth: there has been discussion of architecture on mailing list

Paul Groth: there has been discussion of architecture on mailing list ←

15:24:31 <smiles> ... any comments on how to get tf started?

... any comments on how to get tf started? ←

15:24:49 <Zakim> +paulo

Zakim IRC Bot: +paulo ←

15:24:50 <smiles> olaf: we agreed on a set of objectives for the task force in time for the F2F meeting

Olaf Hartig: we agreed on a set of objectives for the task force in time for the F2F meeting ←

15:25:20 <smiles> ... a including draft for access and query architecture

... a including draft for access and query architecture ←

15:25:21 <smiles> PROPOSED: base draft architecture on proposal in XG report at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/XGR-prov/

PROPOSED: base draft architecture on proposal in XG report at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/XGR-prov/ ←

15:25:22 <iker> +1 olaf proposal

Iker Huerga: +1 olaf proposal ←

15:25:41 <GK> q+, to say I'm not sure how the provenance XG report really works as a foundation

Graham Klyne: q+, to say I'm not sure how the provenance XG report really works as a foundation ←

15:25:46 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 for Olaf's proposal

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 for Olaf's proposal ←

15:26:03 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:26:07 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

15:26:50 <smiles> GK: not clear from XG report what the problem trying to be solved is

Graham Klyne: not clear from XG report what the problem trying to be solved is ←

15:26:50 <Zakim> + +1.509.375.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.375.aaee ←

15:27:12 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+ ←

15:27:18 <smiles> ... will send thoughts to mailing list on this

... will send thoughts to mailing list on this ←

15:27:26 <paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+ ←

15:27:41 <luc> ack satya

Luc Moreau: ack satya ←

15:27:46 <smiles> satya: agree with Olaf, but in XG report did not discuss query mechanism only access

Satya Sahoo: agree with Olaf, but in XG report did not discuss query mechanism only access ←

15:27:58 <smiles> ... will we discuss query separately?

... will we discuss query separately? ←

15:28:21 <smiles> pgroth: olaf's proposal was around access, fit into web architecture

Paul Groth: olaf's proposal was around access, fit into web architecture ←

15:28:33 <luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+ ←

15:29:57 <Zakim> -jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←

15:30:15 <smiles> paulo: we have scenario with list of questions which could be posed, but should have queries which motivate problem, and design for answering the questions asked

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: we have scenario with list of questions which could be posed, but should have queries which motivate problem, and design for answering the questions asked ←

15:30:16 <Zakim> +??P45

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P45 ←

15:30:25 <jorn> zakim, ??P45 is me

Jörn Hees: zakim, ??P45 is me ←

15:30:25 <Zakim> +jorn; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←

15:30:34 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample#Provenance_Questions

Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample#Provenance_Questions ←

15:31:18 <smiles> luc: discussions on access task force were good, and feedback on XG report was positive

Luc Moreau: discussions on access task force were good, and feedback on XG report was positive ←

15:31:31 <smiles> ... in those discussions, we were pointed to POWDER as something to consider

... in those discussions, we were pointed to POWDER as something to consider ←

15:32:06 <smiles> ... queries are in scope of this WG, but not intent of WG to design a query language for provenance

... queries are in scope of this WG, but not intent of WG to design a query language for provenance ←

15:32:40 <GK> +1 not designing a query language

Graham Klyne: +1 not designing a query language ←

15:32:45 <smiles> pgroth: two proposals to proceed: first, use incubator group report section to build on

Paul Groth: two proposals to proceed: first, use incubator group report section to build on ←

15:32:59 <GK> q+ to say not opposing use of XG doc

Graham Klyne: q+ to say not opposing use of XG doc ←

15:33:05 <pgroth> ack paulo

Paul Groth: ack paulo ←

15:33:07 <pgroth> ack luc

Paul Groth: ack luc ←

15:33:09 <YogeshSimmhan> +1 to olaf proposal to use XG report as starting point

Yogesh Simmhan: +1 to olaf proposal to use XG report as starting point ←

15:33:16 <Zakim> -Yogesh

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh ←

15:33:18 <smiles> ... second, more crisply define the problems we are trying to solve first

... second, more crisply define the problems we are trying to solve first ←

15:33:42 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←

15:33:44 <smiles> +1

+1 ←

15:33:45 <Zakim> +Yogesh

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh ←

15:33:45 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

15:33:45 <jcheney> +1 for starting point

James Cheney: +1 for starting point ←

15:33:46 <simoninireland> +1

Simon Dobson: +1 ←

15:33:47 <olaf> +1

Olaf Hartig: +1 ←

15:33:48 <jorn> +1

Jörn Hees: +1 ←

15:33:49 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:33:50 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1 ←

15:33:50 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

15:33:51 <DavidSchaengold> +1

david schaengold: +1 ←

15:33:55 <jun> +1 for starting point

Jun Zhao: +1 for starting point ←

15:33:56 <GK> +1 (taking into account resevrations noted in email)

Graham Klyne: +1 (taking into account resevrations noted in email) ←

15:34:04 <satya> I also propose that we rename PAQ task force as provenance access task force

Satya Sahoo: I also propose that we rename PAQ task force as provenance access task force ←

15:34:05 <Edoardo_and_David> +1

Unknown Edoardo_and_David: +1 ←

15:34:09 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1 ←

15:34:11 <dgarijo> also, +1 to not designing a new query language.

Daniel Garijo: also, +1 to not designing a new query language. ←

15:34:25 <Zakim> -paulo

Zakim IRC Bot: -paulo ←

15:34:26 <khalidbelhajjame> +q

Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←

15:34:27 <ericstephan> ericstephan - is ericstephan - btw :-)

Eric Stephan: ericstephan - is ericstephan - btw :-) ←

15:34:34 <pgroth> ack GK

Paul Groth: ack GK ←

15:34:34 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say not opposing use of XG doc

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to say not opposing use of XG doc ←

15:34:38 <GK> q-

Graham Klyne: q- ←

15:34:51 <pgroth> ack khalidbelhajjame

Paul Groth: ack khalidbelhajjame ←

15:35:24 <smiles> khalid: if a query language is outside scope of the WG, we should be clear that we are only discussing access

Khalid Belhajjame: if a query language is outside scope of the WG, we should be clear that we are only discussing access ←

15:35:26 <smiles> RESOLVED: use incubator report access architecture as starting point for access and query task force F2F draft

RESOLVED: use incubator report access architecture as starting point for access and query task force F2F draft ←

15:35:30 <GK> q+ to say that identifying mechanisms to use existing QL is OK

Graham Klyne: q+ to say that identifying mechanisms to use existing QL is OK ←

15:35:37 <luc> It is still the case that we may want to explain how to use, say SPARQL, to query provenance

Luc Moreau: It is still the case that we may want to explain how to use, say SPARQL, to query provenance ←

15:35:48 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+ ←

15:36:36 <smiles> pgroth: could rename access and query task force to access only, but we also have reference to sparql endpoints etc in charter

Paul Groth: could rename access and query task force to access only, but we also have reference to sparql endpoints etc in charter ←

15:36:48 <Zakim> +paulo

Zakim IRC Bot: +paulo ←

15:36:57 <satya> q-

Satya Sahoo: q- ←

15:36:57 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q? ←

15:37:00 <smiles> satya: not proposing new query language, but we can say how existing languages to fit into architecture

Satya Sahoo: not proposing new query language, but we can say how existing languages to fit into architecture ←

15:37:36 <smiles> GK: maybe it is in scope how to make use of existing query languages and mechanisms

Graham Klyne: maybe it is in scope how to make use of existing query languages and mechanisms ←

15:38:12 <smiles> TOPIC: Concepts illustration

4. Concepts illustration

Summary: We will have a Wiki page per concept and use the issue tracker to discuss definitions. Definitions will be informal and grounded with the example.

15:38:13 <smiles> SUMMARY: We will have a Wiki page per concept and use the issue tracker to discuss definitions. Definitions will be informal and grounded with the example.

15:38:31 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0018.html

Paul Groth: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0018.html ←

15:38:39 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/CharterConceptsIllustration

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/CharterConceptsIllustration ←

15:38:45 <smiles> pgroth: asked people to discuss how example can be used to illustrate concepts from charter

Paul Groth: asked people to discuss how example can be used to illustrate concepts from charter ←

15:39:28 <paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+ ←

15:39:29 <smiles> ... used scenario to propose examples for concepts - not many comments yet - are the concept examples reasonable?

... used scenario to propose examples for concepts - not many comments yet - are the concept examples reasonable? ←

15:39:39 <pgroth> ack GK

Paul Groth: ack GK ←

15:39:45 <pgroth> ack paulo

Paul Groth: ack paulo ←

15:40:19 <smiles> paulo: maybe limiting that example is so focused on a process

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: maybe limiting that example is so focused on a process ←

15:42:02 <smiles> ... use of process may blind us to cover all aspects we need

... use of process may blind us to cover all aspects we need ←

15:42:44 <paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+ ←

15:42:48 <smiles> pgroth: we want to define the set of concepts we want to use, need a process for this activity

Paul Groth: we want to define the set of concepts we want to use, need a process for this activity ←

15:43:34 <smiles> ... (as in a process for the working group, not a process in the example/model)

... (as in a process for the working group, not a process in the example/model) ←

15:43:44 <luc> paul: explain what an issue is

Scribe problem: the name 'paul' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Paul Groth Paulo Pinheiro da Silva . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown paul: explain what an issue is [ Scribe Assist by Luc Moreau ] ←

15:43:54 <pgroth> What term do we adopt for concept 'xxx' and how do we define it?"

Paul Groth: What term do we adopt for concept 'xxx' and how do we define it?" ←

15:44:13 <luc> paul, please explain what an issue is

Luc Moreau: paul, please explain what an issue is ←

15:44:13 <smiles> pgroth: suggest we raise an issue for each concept in the charter of form above

Paul Groth: suggest we raise an issue for each concept in the charter of form above ←

15:44:30 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

15:44:33 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/

Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/ ←

15:44:39 <Zakim> - +1.509.375.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.375.aaee ←

15:44:45 <smiles> ... an issue is something which can be raised in the tracker for discussion until resolution

... an issue is something which can be raised in the tracker for discussion until resolution ←

15:44:57 <pgroth> q-

Paul Groth: q- ←

15:45:27 <paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+ ←

15:45:29 <Zakim> + +1.509.375.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.375.aaff ←

15:45:37 <smiles> pgroth: we raise issues for the initial set of concepts from charter, and if new concepts people can raise them as issues

Paul Groth: we raise issues for the initial set of concepts from charter, and if new concepts people can raise them as issues ←

15:45:41 <Zakim> -jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←

15:45:43 <jorn> zakim, aaff probably is ericstephan

Jörn Hees: zakim, aaff probably is ericstephan ←

15:45:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aaff probably is ericstephan', jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'aaff probably is ericstephan', jorn ←

15:45:44 <ericstephan> q+ again sorry

Eric Stephan: q+ again sorry ←

15:45:56 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←

15:46:07 <jorn> zakim, ??P14 is me

Jörn Hees: zakim, ??P14 is me ←

15:46:08 <Zakim> +jorn; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←

15:46:34 <jcheney> "issue" is just the name for something the tracker tracks...

James Cheney: "issue" is just the name for something the tracker tracks... ←

15:46:46 <smiles> paulo: consider questions we have to be answered with model, as we may have concepts which are not answering any question

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: consider questions we have to be answered with model, as we may have concepts which are not answering any question ←

15:46:46 <luc> paulo has got a point, we have a list of queries associated with the example

Luc Moreau: paulo has got a point, we have a list of queries associated with the example ←

15:47:04 <luc> a "w3c issue" is like a bug in bugzilla

Luc Moreau: a "w3c issue" is like a bug in bugzilla ←

15:47:35 <jcheney> some of them might be uncontroversial and so "resolved" immediately.

James Cheney: some of them might be uncontroversial and so "resolved" immediately. ←

15:48:13 <jorn> zakim, aaff is probably ericstephan

Jörn Hees: zakim, aaff is probably ericstephan ←

15:48:13 <Zakim> +ericstephan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericstephan; got it ←

15:48:18 <smiles> luc: paulo is right that we do not want concepts not used in any queries, so we need to show how they are used to answer queries

Luc Moreau: paulo is right that we do not want concepts not used in any queries, so we need to show how they are used to answer queries ←

15:48:25 <smiles> ... we have a list of queries in the example and need to extend it over time

... we have a list of queries in the example and need to extend it over time ←

15:48:48 <smiles> PROPOSED: raise issue for discussing each concept definition

PROPOSED: raise issue for discussing each concept definition ←

15:48:49 <satya> for raising issue?

Satya Sahoo: for raising issue? ←

15:48:49 <simoninireland> +1

Simon Dobson: +1 ←

15:48:49 <tlebo> +1 using tracker

Timothy Lebo: +1 using tracker ←

15:48:49 <Zakim> -Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda ←

15:48:50 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:48:51 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

15:48:52 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1 ←

15:48:52 <jorn> +1

Jörn Hees: +1 ←

15:48:53 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1 ←

15:48:53 <smiles> +1

+1 ←

15:48:53 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1 ←

15:48:54 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1 ←

15:48:54 <DavidSchaengold> +1

david schaengold: +1 ←

15:48:54 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1 ←

15:48:54 <Altintas> +1

Ilkay Altintas: +1 ←

15:48:55 <frew> +1

James Frew: +1 ←

15:48:55 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

15:48:56 <paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+ ←

15:48:57 <Edoardo_and_David> +1

Unknown Edoardo_and_David: +1 ←

15:48:58 <olaf> +1

Olaf Hartig: +1 ←

15:48:58 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←

15:49:00 <YogeshSimmhan> +1

Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←

15:49:00 <jcheney> q+

James Cheney: q+ ←

15:49:58 <smiles> eric: can connection task force use these concepts to identify which groups they may pertain to?

Eric Stephan: can connection task force use these concepts to identify which groups they may pertain to? ←

15:50:25 <pgroth> ack paulo

Paul Groth: ack paulo ←

15:50:32 <pgroth> ack eristephan

Paul Groth: ack eristephan ←

15:50:41 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q? ←

15:50:51 <smiles> jcheney: when using issue tracker, there is a formal process for asking for comments from outside

James Cheney: when using issue tracker, there is a formal process for asking for comments from outside ←

15:51:20 <smiles> ... guidance says good to have examples to illustrate disagreements

... guidance says good to have examples to illustrate disagreements ←

15:51:30 <dgarijo> ack ericstephan

Daniel Garijo: ack ericstephan ←

15:51:31 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#formal-address

James Cheney: http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#formal-address ←

15:51:34 <jcheney> q-

James Cheney: q- ←

15:52:06 <smiles> RESOLVED: use issue tracking to discuss concept definitions

RESOLVED: use issue tracking to discuss concept definitions ←

15:52:32 <smiles> pgroth: how to suggest definitions?

Paul Groth: how to suggest definitions? ←

15:52:33 <tlebo> wiki?

Timothy Lebo: wiki? ←

15:52:34 <luc> a wiki page per concept?

Luc Moreau: a wiki page per concept? ←

15:52:44 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1 ←

15:52:47 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1 ←

15:53:03 <Edoardo_and_David> +1 a wiki page per concept

Unknown Edoardo_and_David: +1 a wiki page per concept ←

15:53:05 <ericstephan> +1 luc's idea

Eric Stephan: +1 luc's idea ←

15:53:07 <jorn> +1

Jörn Hees: +1 ←

15:53:12 <smiles> pgroth: once we have a wiki page per concept, then what?

Paul Groth: once we have a wiki page per concept, then what? ←

15:53:13 <satya> +1 for wiki page

Satya Sahoo: +1 for wiki page ←

15:53:15 <tlebo> q+

Timothy Lebo: q+ ←

15:53:16 <luc> so, when we raise an issue, we also create the corresponding wiki page

Luc Moreau: so, when we raise an issue, we also create the corresponding wiki page ←

15:53:22 <olaf> +1

Olaf Hartig: +1 ←

15:53:29 <satya> Create a definition for the concept

Satya Sahoo: Create a definition for the concept ←

15:53:35 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1 ←

15:53:41 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

15:53:45 <GK> q+ to suggest that someone familiar with W3C support tools should make proposal (on list, with links) then have us throw rocks at it?

Graham Klyne: q+ to suggest that someone familiar with W3C support tools should make proposal (on list, with links) then have us throw rocks at it? ←

15:53:47 <smiles> tlebo: use wiki to represent current definition, have wiki link as part of the tracker (issue)

Timothy Lebo: use wiki to represent current definition, have wiki link as part of the tracker (issue) ←

15:53:57 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:53:58 <jorn> there are history links in the wiki, aren't they? so use them in emails?

Jörn Hees: there are history links in the wiki, aren't they? so use them in emails? ←

15:53:59 <Altintas> +1

Ilkay Altintas: +1 ←

15:54:11 <luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+ ←

15:54:16 <luc> ack again

Luc Moreau: ack again ←

15:54:18 <luc> ack sorry

Luc Moreau: ack sorry ←

15:54:20 <smiles> pgroth: how to get first set of definitions?

Paul Groth: how to get first set of definitions? ←

15:54:21 <satya> from the XG final report?

Satya Sahoo: from the XG final report? ←

15:54:24 <luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+ ←

15:54:59 <smiles> GK: maybe more productive for someone familiar with W3C tooling put something initial together

Graham Klyne: maybe more productive for someone familiar with W3C tooling put something initial together ←

15:55:43 <GK> q-

Graham Klyne: q- ←

15:55:47 <smiles> luc: proposal of inviting submitting definitions is good, but some definitions may be mutually dependent, so need mechanism to cross-ref definitions

Luc Moreau: proposal of inviting submitting definitions is good, but some definitions may be mutually dependent, so need mechanism to cross-ref definitions ←

15:55:51 <luc> q-

Luc Moreau: q- ←

15:55:53 <satya> a note on the wiki page of the concept to cross-reference?

Satya Sahoo: a note on the wiki page of the concept to cross-reference? ←

15:56:23 <Zakim> -??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P3 ←

15:56:28 <smiles> PROPOSED: idea is everyone allowed to submit own definitions, then merge

PROPOSED: idea is everyone allowed to submit own definitions, then merge ←

15:56:29 <GK> q+ to suggest suggested definitions should be grounded in example

Graham Klyne: q+ to suggest suggested definitions should be grounded in example ←

15:56:37 <luc> or is better to put one proposal, which get discussed?

Luc Moreau: or is better to put one proposal, which get discussed? ←

15:56:44 <tlebo> concept references within a definition can link via wiki link.

Timothy Lebo: concept references within a definition can link via wiki link. ←

15:56:58 <smiles> GK: in asking people to submit, could ask that grounded in example?

Graham Klyne: in asking people to submit, could ask that grounded in example? ←

15:57:04 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:57:32 <smiles> pgroth: (agree with GK, add to proposal above)

Paul Groth: (agree with GK, add to proposal above) ←

15:57:43 <satya> + 1 for proposal 1

Satya Sahoo: + 1 for proposal 1 ←

15:57:51 <smiles> pgroth: alternative proposal to start with one definition, and edit (based on example)

Paul Groth: alternative proposal to start with one definition, and edit (based on example) ←

15:57:55 <luc> ... or propose alternative definition

Luc Moreau: ... or propose alternative definition ←

15:57:56 <tlebo> multiple working definitions could be placed onto the same concept's wiki page

Timothy Lebo: multiple working definitions could be placed onto the same concept's wiki page ←

15:57:57 <GK> q+ point of order: proposals not mutually exclusive?

Graham Klyne: q+ point of order: proposals not mutually exclusive? ←

15:58:53 <tlebo> what percentage of the working group can edit the wiki?

Timothy Lebo: what percentage of the working group can edit the wiki? ←

15:58:54 <smiles> GK: just suggesting that whatever process used, ground in example

Graham Klyne: just suggesting that whatever process used, ground in example ←

15:58:59 <luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+ ←

15:59:25 <jcheney> +q

James Cheney: +q ←

15:59:25 <GK> q-

Graham Klyne: q- ←

15:59:27 <luc> q-

Luc Moreau: q- ←

15:59:33 <pgroth> ack tlebo

Paul Groth: ack tlebo ←

15:59:36 <smiles> luc: maybe difficult to come up with initial definitions - instead paraphrase something rather than formal definition

Luc Moreau: maybe difficult to come up with initial definitions - instead paraphrase something rather than formal definition ←

16:00:04 <smiles> jcheney: formal or informal definitions?

James Cheney: formal or informal definitions? ←

16:00:11 <paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+ ←

16:00:16 <zednik> +1 informal

Stephan Zednik: +1 informal ←

16:00:20 <jcheney> q-

James Cheney: q- ←

16:00:23 <jorn> +1 for informal first...

Jörn Hees: +1 for informal first... ←

16:00:25 <Zakim> -??P42

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P42 ←

16:00:32 <dgarijo> +1 to informal

Daniel Garijo: +1 to informal ←

16:00:33 <luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+ ←

16:00:34 <tlebo> re: formality, have both rdfs/owl statements and inform descriptions on same wiki page for the concept?

Carl Reed: formality, have both rdfs/owl statements and inform descriptions on same wiki page for the concept? [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←

16:00:52 <smiles> paulo: agree on distinction between informal and formal definitions (are informal definitions actually definitions?)

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: agree on distinction between informal and formal definitions (are informal definitions actually definitions?) ←

16:01:23 <Zakim> -jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←

16:01:28 <smiles> luc: half of wg did not belong to incubator, we are first trying to build a shared vocabulary

Luc Moreau: half of wg did not belong to incubator, we are first trying to build a shared vocabulary ←

16:01:36 <GK> +1 to building shared vocabulary

Graham Klyne: +1 to building shared vocabulary ←

16:01:53 <Zakim> +??P62

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P62 ←

16:02:00 <zednik> +1 to building shared vocabularly

Stephan Zednik: +1 to building shared vocabularly ←

16:02:06 <jorn> Zakim, ??p62 is me

Jörn Hees: Zakim, ??p62 is me ←

16:02:06 <Zakim> +jorn; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←

16:02:06 <smiles> ... starting with a formal definition is not helpful, informal definition using paraphrasing, examples, graphical notation is better

... starting with a formal definition is not helpful, informal definition using paraphrasing, examples, graphical notation is better ←

16:02:19 <olaf> +1 for proposal 1 with informal definitions

Olaf Hartig: +1 for proposal 1 with informal definitions ←

16:02:28 <jun> + informal

Jun Zhao: + informal ←

16:02:30 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

16:02:30 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1 ←

16:02:31 <jorn> +1

Jörn Hees: +1 ←

16:02:31 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1 ←

16:02:31 <tlebo> +1 formal +1 informal

Timothy Lebo: +1 formal +1 informal ←

16:02:33 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

16:02:33 <frew> +1

James Frew: +1 ←

16:02:34 <satya> +1 for informal

Satya Sahoo: +1 for informal ←

16:02:35 <Edoardo_and_David> +1

Unknown Edoardo_and_David: +1 ←

16:02:36 <pgroth> proposal  for informal to start

Paul Groth: proposal for informal to start ←

16:02:38 <smiles> pgroth: informal definitions to start?

Paul Groth: informal definitions to start? ←

16:02:39 <smiles> +1

+1 ←

16:02:41 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←

16:02:43 <paolo> +1 informal

Paolo Missier: +1 informal ←

16:02:44 <dgarijo> +1 informal

Daniel Garijo: +1 informal ←

16:02:44 <DavidSchaengold> +1 for informal

david schaengold: +1 for informal ←

16:02:45 <GK> +1 start informal, build shared vocab

Graham Klyne: +1 start informal, build shared vocab ←

16:02:46 <CarlOGC> +1

Carl Reed: +1 ←

16:02:48 <YogeshSimmhan> +1

Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←

16:02:48 <Altintas> +1

Ilkay Altintas: +1 ←

16:02:50 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

16:02:54 <Altintas> or informal

Ilkay Altintas: or informal ←

16:03:28 <Zakim> -frew

Zakim IRC Bot: -frew ←

16:03:31 <smiles> RESOLVED: start with informal definitions, grounded with example

RESOLVED: start with informal definitions, grounded with example ←

16:03:32 <smiles> pgroth: will set up web pages for concepts, issues for defining concepts

Paul Groth: will set up web pages for concepts, issues for defining concepts ←

16:03:32 <Zakim> -jun

Zakim IRC Bot: -jun ←

16:03:33 <smiles> ACTION: Paul to set up web pages for concepts, issues for defining concepts

ACTION: Paul to set up web pages for concepts, issues for defining concepts ←

16:03:34 <Zakim> -SatyaSahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: -SatyaSahoo ←

16:03:35 <Zakim> -ericstephan

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericstephan ←

16:03:36 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.276.aaaa ←

16:03:39 <Zakim> -jcheney

Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney ←

16:03:41 <Zakim> -DavidSchaengold

Zakim IRC Bot: -DavidSchaengold ←

16:03:43 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame

Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame ←

16:03:45 <Zakim> -dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←

16:03:47 <Zakim> - +1.858.210.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.858.210.aabb ←

16:03:49 <Zakim> -olaf

Zakim IRC Bot: -olaf ←

16:03:51 <Zakim> -Yogesh

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh ←

16:03:53 <Zakim> -paolo_

Zakim IRC Bot: -paolo_ ←

16:03:55 <Zakim> -zednik

Zakim IRC Bot: -zednik ←

16:03:57 <Zakim> -VinhNguyen

Zakim IRC Bot: -VinhNguyen ←

16:04:01 <Zakim> -luc

Zakim IRC Bot: -luc ←

16:04:01 <smiles> rrsagent, set log public

rrsagent, set log public ←

16:04:03 <Zakim> -GK

Zakim IRC Bot: -GK ←

16:04:07 <Zakim> -paulo

Zakim IRC Bot: -paulo ←

16:04:09 <Zakim> -??P35

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P35 ←

16:04:11 <smiles> rrsagent, draft minutes

rrsagent, draft minutes ←

16:04:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-minutes.html smiles

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-minutes.html smiles ←

16:04:15 <Zakim> -tlebo

Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←

16:04:17 <Zakim> -??P4

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P4 ←

16:04:21 <Zakim> -??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17 ←

16:04:27 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←

16:04:28 <smiles> trackbot, end telcon

trackbot, end telcon ←

16:04:28 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←

16:04:29 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, DavidSchaengold, +1.858.210.aabb, jorn, tlebo, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, SatyaSahoo, paolo_, olaf,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, DavidSchaengold, +1.858.210.aabb, jorn, tlebo, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, SatyaSahoo, paolo_, olaf, ←

16:04:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←

16:04:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←

16:04:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←

16:04:30 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←

16:04:32 <Zakim> ... +1.518.633.aadd, Yogesh, jun, jcheney, khalidbelhajjame, zednik, Yolanda, SamCoppens, frew, GK, VinhNguyen, paulo, +1.509.375.aaee, +1.509.375.aaff, ericstephan

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.518.633.aadd, Yogesh, jun, jcheney, khalidbelhajjame, zednik, Yolanda, SamCoppens, frew, GK, VinhNguyen, paulo, +1.509.375.aaee, +1.509.375.aaff, ericstephan ←

Formatted by CommonScribe

This revision (#3) generated 2011-05-20 11:30:42 UTC by 'unknown', comments: 'reverted to Edoardo_and_David\r\nupdated ????, it was Tim Lebo\r\nadded response to Tim Lebo question on lcp'