IRC log of prov on 2011-05-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:45:02 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #prov
- 14:45:02 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-irc
- 14:45:04 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 14:45:04 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #prov
- 14:45:06 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be
- 14:45:06 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
- 14:45:07 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
- 14:45:07 [trackbot]
- Date: 19 May 2011
- 14:45:17 [luc]
- Zakim, this will be PROV
- 14:45:17 [Zakim]
- ok, luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
- 14:45:40 [luc]
- Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.19
- 14:45:55 [luc]
- Chair: Paul Groth
- 14:46:08 [luc]
- Scribe: smiles
- 14:46:22 [luc]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 14:47:38 [luc]
- Regrets: Kai Eckert
- 14:51:15 [Zakim]
- SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
- 14:51:17 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 14:51:28 [pgroth]
- Zakim, ??P12 is pgroth
- 14:51:28 [Zakim]
- +pgroth; got it
- 14:51:37 [pgroth]
- Zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:51:37 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see pgroth
- 14:52:45 [smiles]
- smiles has joined #prov
- 14:52:45 [Zakim]
- +luc
- 14:52:47 [Zakim]
- -luc
- 14:52:47 [Zakim]
- +luc
- 14:53:42 [Zakim]
- +??P21
- 14:53:55 [smiles]
- zakim, ??P21 is me
- 14:53:55 [Zakim]
- +smiles; got it
- 14:54:36 [zednik]
- zednik has joined #prov
- 14:54:55 [dgarijo]
- dgarijo has joined #prov
- 14:55:21 [simoninireland]
- simoninireland has joined #prov
- 14:57:20 [Zakim]
- + +1.518.276.aaaa
- 14:57:39 [tlebo]
- tlebo has joined #prov
- 14:57:50 [Zakim]
- +??P22
- 14:58:06 [Zakim]
- +DavidSchaengold
- 14:58:08 [Christine]
- Christine has joined #prov
- 14:58:17 [DavidSchaengold]
- DavidSchaengold has joined #prov
- 14:58:30 [tlebo]
- What command do I use to associate my irc handle to my phone?
- 14:58:39 [Zakim]
- +??P30
- 14:58:42 [EdoardoandDavid]
- EdoardoandDavid has joined #prov
- 14:58:44 [pgroth]
- \me Zakim blah is blah
- 14:59:13 [Zakim]
- + +1.858.210.aabb
- 14:59:15 [jorn]
- Zakim: ??P30 is me
- 14:59:23 [tlebo]
- \me Zakim P22 is tlebo
- 14:59:26 [Zakim]
- +??P35
- 14:59:31 [Edoardo_and_David]
- Edoardo_and_David has joined #prov
- 14:59:32 [tlebo]
- Zakim P22 is tlebo
- 14:59:41 [CarlOGC]
- CarlOGC has joined #prov
- 14:59:49 [jorn]
- Zakim, ??P30 is me
- 14:59:49 [Zakim]
- +jorn; got it
- 14:59:50 [tlebo]
- Zakim, ??P22 is tlebo
- 14:59:50 [Zakim]
- +tlebo; got it
- 14:59:50 [Zakim]
- + +1.805.893.aacc
- 14:59:52 [Zakim]
- +??P37
- 14:59:56 [frew]
- frew has joined #prov
- 15:00:00 [jun]
- jun has joined #prov
- 15:00:12 [dgarijo]
- Zakim, ??P37 is me
- 15:00:12 [Zakim]
- +dgarijo; got it
- 15:00:12 [satya]
- satya has joined #prov
- 15:00:17 [Zakim]
- +??P3
- 15:00:34 [YogeshSimmhan]
- YogeshSimmhan has joined #prov
- 15:00:42 [olaf]
- olaf has joined #prov
- 15:00:45 [Zakim]
- +SatyaSahoo
- 15:00:46 [paolo]
- paolo has joined #prov
- 15:00:53 [jorn]
- zakim, who is talking?
- 15:00:54 [pgroth]
- Zakim, who's there?
- 15:00:54 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, pgroth.
- 15:01:00 [Zakim]
- +??P4
- 15:01:03 [Zakim]
- jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (28%)
- 15:01:28 [Zakim]
- +paolo_
- 15:01:34 [Zakim]
- +olaf
- 15:01:38 [GK]
- GK has joined #prov
- 15:01:44 [jcheney]
- jcheney has joined #prov
- 15:01:51 [luc]
- Guest: Paolo (paolo_) Missier
- 15:01:54 [Zakim]
- + +1.518.633.aadd
- 15:02:03 [iker]
- iker has joined #prov
- 15:02:12 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:02:14 [luc]
- Guest: Satya Sahoo
- 15:02:18 [pgroth]
- Zakim, who's on the call?
- 15:02:18 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf,
- 15:02:22 [Zakim]
- ... +1.518.633.aadd, [IPcaller]
- 15:02:26 [Zakim]
- +Yogesh
- 15:02:32 [luc]
- Guest: Yogesh Simmhan
- 15:02:35 [jun]
- zakim, [IPcaller] is jun
- 15:02:36 [Zakim]
- +??P40
- 15:02:40 [Zakim]
- +jun; got it
- 15:02:43 [jcheney]
- Zakim, ??P40 is me
- 15:02:51 [pgroth]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:02:53 [Zakim]
- +jcheney; got it
- 15:02:59 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf,
- 15:03:01 [khalidbelhajjame]
- khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov
- 15:03:03 [Zakim]
- ... +1.518.633.aadd, jun, Yogesh, jcheney
- 15:03:04 [frew]
- I am +1.805.893.aacc
- 15:03:06 [Zakim]
- +??P42
- 15:03:31 [zednik]
- I am +1.518.633.aadd
- 15:03:40 [dgarijo]
- Zakim, 1.805.893.aacc is frew
- 15:03:40 [Zakim]
- sorry, dgarijo, I do not recognize a party named '1.805.893.aacc'
- 15:03:45 [Zakim]
- +??P44
- 15:03:54 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 15:03:56 [Christine]
- Hi. Sorry everyone. I'm not sure how to assign myself. Calling using VOIP. (Thanks Luc, you did send instructions.)
- 15:04:11 [pgroth]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:04:11 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf,
- 15:04:14 [Zakim]
- ... +1.518.633.aadd, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, ??P8
- 15:04:14 [khalidbelhajjame]
- zakim, ??P8 is really me
- 15:04:14 [Zakim]
- +khalidbelhajjame; got it
- 15:04:46 [GK_]
- GK_ has joined #prov
- 15:04:54 [pgroth]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:04:54 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf,
- 15:04:58 [Zakim]
- ... +1.518.633.aadd, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame
- 15:05:00 [frew]
- +q
- 15:05:39 [jorn]
- zakim, aad is zednik
- 15:05:39 [Zakim]
- sorry, jorn, I do not recognize a party named 'aad'
- 15:05:40 [dgarijo]
- Type: "Zakim, <YOUR id> is me"
- 15:05:45 [jorn]
- zakim, aadd is zednik
- 15:05:45 [Zakim]
- +zednik; got it
- 15:05:54 [pgroth]
- Zakim, who's on the phone
- 15:05:54 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who's on the phone', pgroth
- 15:06:01 [jorn]
- zakim, aacc is frew
- 15:06:01 [Zakim]
- +frew; got it
- 15:06:04 [pgroth]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:06:04 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, frew, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, zednik, jun,
- 15:06:09 [Zakim]
- ... Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame
- 15:06:21 [pgroth]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.19
- 15:06:21 [Zakim]
- +??P17
- 15:06:27 [frew]
- zakim, frew is +1-805-893-7356
- 15:06:27 [Zakim]
- ++1-805-893-7356; got it
- 15:06:37 [smiles]
- Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.19
- 15:06:37 [SamCoppens]
- SamCoppens has joined #prov
- 15:06:46 [Zakim]
- +Yolanda
- 15:06:52 [CarlOGC]
- zakim skype carl.n.reed CarlOGC
- 15:06:57 [GK]
- +??P44
- 15:07:01 [pgroth]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-05-12
- 15:07:01 [luc]
- Guest: Yolanda Gil
- 15:07:01 [smiles]
- TOPIC: Admin
- 15:07:13 [pgroth]
- PROPOSED to accept the minutes of 12 May telecon
- 15:07:20 [simoninireland]
- +1
- 15:07:21 [dgarijo]
- +1
- 15:07:21 [khalidbelhajjame]
- +1
- 15:07:22 [satya]
- +1
- 15:07:23 [DavidSchaengold]
- +1
- 15:07:23 [smiles]
- +1
- 15:07:23 [SamCoppens]
- zakim, +??44 is SamCoppens
- 15:07:23 [Zakim]
- sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '+??44'
- 15:07:24 [frew]
- +1
- 15:07:25 [jcheney]
- +1
- 15:07:26 [jorn]
- +1
- 15:07:28 [tlebo]
- +1
- 15:07:29 [Edoardo_and_David]
- +1
- 15:07:37 [GK]
- +1
- 15:07:42 [olaf]
- +1
- 15:07:45 [iker]
- +1
- 15:07:46 [jun]
- +1
- 15:07:48 [SamCoppens]
- zakim, ??44 is SamCoppens
- 15:07:49 [Zakim]
- sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '??44'
- 15:07:55 [GK]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:07:55 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1-805-893-7356, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf,
- 15:08:01 [Zakim]
- ... zednik, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame, ??P17, Yolanda
- 15:08:04 [jorn]
- zakim, who is talking?
- 15:08:14 [Zakim]
- jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 25 (3%), pgroth (54%), DavidSchaengold (24%), ??P35 (51%), ??P44 (12%)
- 15:08:16 [pgroth]
- minutes accepted
- 15:08:18 [pgroth]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open
- 15:08:25 [tlebo]
- Zakim, ??P44 is SamCoppens
- 15:08:25 [Zakim]
- +SamCoppens; got it
- 15:08:31 [SamCoppens]
- thanks
- 15:09:02 [smiles]
- pgroth: action to add links to examples (active topics from front Wiki page) has been done
- 15:09:14 [frew]
- zakim, +1-805-893-7356 is me
- 15:09:14 [Zakim]
- +frew; got it
- 15:09:23 [smiles]
- ... encourage all to add links when new active topics
- 15:09:41 [satya]
- q+
- 15:09:46 [pgroth]
- ack frew
- 15:09:55 [smiles]
- pgroth: slowly resolving issues getting everyone on group, mailing list
- 15:10:07 [GK]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:10:07 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, frew, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, zednik, jun,
- 15:10:10 [Zakim]
- ... Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame, ??P17, Yolanda
- 15:10:19 [smiles]
- satya: how soon will invited expert issues be resolved?
- 15:10:30 [satya]
- q-
- 15:10:37 [Zakim]
- -SamCoppens
- 15:10:44 [smiles]
- pgroth: don't know, for W3C
- 15:10:47 [pgroth]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes
- 15:11:01 [Zakim]
- +??P44
- 15:11:13 [GK]
- zakim, ??P44 is me
- 15:11:13 [Zakim]
- +GK; got it
- 15:11:17 [smiles]
- pgroth: we need scribes for the next weeks - please add you names, else will pick on people
- 15:11:36 [luc]
- see instructions http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/HowToSetUp
- 15:11:44 [VinhNguyen]
- VinhNguyen has joined #prov
- 15:11:53 [luc]
- we can help set up before meeting
- 15:12:03 [smiles]
- pgroth: responsibilities of scribes are to write summaries of what people say, and commands are available on the link luc just sent
- 15:12:27 [pgroth]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample
- 15:12:42 [smiles]
- TOPIC: data journalism example
- 15:12:56 [jorn]
- zakim,, who|s noisy
- 15:13:00 [Zakim]
- I don't understand ', who|s noisy', jorn
- 15:13:05 [smiles]
- pgroth: we decided to take an example-based approach, comments were received, are there any more?
- 15:13:08 [khalidbelhajjame]
- there is noise on the line
- 15:13:09 [jorn]
- zakim, who's noisy
- 15:13:12 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who's noisy', jorn
- 15:13:38 [GK]
- zakim, who is talking
- 15:13:38 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is talking', GK
- 15:13:46 [jorn]
- zakim, who is talking?
- 15:13:50 [dgarijo]
- zakim, who is making noise?
- 15:13:54 [Zakim]
- -jorn
- 15:13:58 [Zakim]
- jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (19%), +1.518.276.aaaa (4%), Yolanda (51%)
- 15:14:09 [Zakim]
- dgarijo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (5%), pgroth (32%), Yolanda (43%)
- 15:14:10 [smiles]
- YolandaG: liked example, but where we illustrate what a provenance container is, need to be clear that not all provenance may be in that container - may need to access other areas
- 15:14:30 [Zakim]
- -smiles
- 15:14:34 [tlebo]
- yolanda: should consider situation where not all provenance is in the same "container", and would need to go fetch additional provenance for that resource.
- 15:14:35 [Zakim]
- +??P45
- 15:14:46 [jorn]
- zakim, ??P45 is me
- 15:14:46 [Zakim]
- +jorn; got it
- 15:14:56 [jun]
- +1 to YolandaG
- 15:14:58 [pgroth]
- can people use the queue
- 15:15:15 [luc]
- ???: multiple sources are not represented yet in the example
- 15:15:25 [Zakim]
- +VinhNguyen
- 15:15:32 [pgroth]
- Zakim, mute YolandaG
- 15:15:32 [Zakim]
- sorry, pgroth, I do not know which phone connection belongs to YolandaG
- 15:15:35 [Zakim]
- +??P46
- 15:15:40 [pgroth]
- Zakim, mute Yolanda
- 15:15:40 [Zakim]
- Yolanda should now be muted
- 15:15:55 [jorn]
- zakim, who is talking?
- 15:16:02 [pgroth]
- q?
- 15:16:06 [Zakim]
- jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (9%), pgroth (43%), DavidSchaengold (13%), ??P35 (14%), smiles (18%)
- 15:16:29 [luc]
- carlOGC: to send a few words to incorporate map
- 15:16:38 [smiles]
- CarlOGC: asks about incorporating a map into the example
- 15:16:49 [tlebo]
- would the group mind expanding the variables used in the scenario? (e.g. lcp1)
- 15:17:12 [tlebo]
- +1 to continuing with example.
- 15:17:27 [smiles]
- pgroth: can we proceed with example as is, and expand as we go along - nice to move on to discussing concepts
- 15:17:29 [GK]
- +1 to moving on, update example as needed.
- 15:17:48 [khalidbelhajjame]
- +1 for continuing to change the example along instead of trying to get right now
- 15:17:55 [pgroth]
- proposal: continue updating example, but use the data journalism example as it currently stands
- 15:17:57 [YogeshSimmhan]
- +1
- 15:17:58 [jorn]
- +1
- 15:18:00 [dgarijo]
- +1
- 15:18:02 [khalidbelhajjame]
- +1
- 15:18:02 [satya]
- I agree, we should start with the example and let it evolve
- 15:18:02 [tlebo]
- +1
- 15:18:03 [olaf]
- +1 to moving on
- 15:18:03 [smiles]
- +1
- 15:18:04 [jorn]
- zakim, who is talking?
- 15:18:06 [Edoardo_and_David]
- +1
- 15:18:07 [SamCoppens]
- +1
- 15:18:09 [paolo]
- +1
- 15:18:11 [jun]
- +1
- 15:18:12 [iker]
- +1 moving on
- 15:18:15 [Zakim]
- jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (27%)
- 15:18:18 [zednik]
- +1
- 15:18:19 [simoninireland]
- +1
- 15:18:20 [jcheney]
- +1
- 15:18:23 [jorn]
- zakim, please mute khalidbelhajjame
- 15:18:23 [Zakim]
- khalidbelhajjame should now be muted
- 15:18:28 [VinhNguyen]
- +1
- 15:18:35 [GK]
- +1
- 15:18:37 [Zakim]
- -khalidbelhajjame
- 15:18:57 [frew]
- if you are in a public place then please mute
- 15:19:01 [pgroth]
- proposal accepted
- 15:19:02 [tlebo]
- +q
- 15:19:03 [DavidSchaengold]
- +1
- 15:19:15 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 15:19:28 [smiles]
- tlebo: what are the next steps beyond making tweaks to scenario?
- 15:19:33 [khalidbelhajjame]
- zakim, ??P8 is really me
- 15:19:35 [Zakim]
- +khalidbelhajjame; got it
- 15:20:05 [dgarijo]
- +q
- 15:20:23 [smiles]
- pgroth: proceed as we have been doing by email to discuss example
- 15:20:27 [tlebo]
- pgroth: how to proceed with current example: continue to discuss via email.
- 15:20:40 [luc]
- ack tlebo
- 15:20:46 [pgroth]
- ack dgarijo
- 15:20:53 [smiles]
- dgarijo: proposal to add another example(s) on mailing list
- 15:20:54 [Zakim]
- -pgroth
- 15:20:57 [jorn]
- zakim, who is noisy?
- 15:20:57 [tlebo]
- []: do we create a new example to capture scientific domain.
- 15:20:58 [satya]
- q+
- 15:21:11 [Zakim]
- jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidSchaengold (59%), ??P35 (29%)
- 15:21:15 [pgroth]
- i droped
- 15:21:17 [tlebo]
- q?
- 15:21:20 [pgroth]
- can you take over luc
- 15:21:37 [luc]
- yes
- 15:21:42 [jorn]
- zakim, please mute DavidSchaengold
- 15:21:42 [Zakim]
- DavidSchaengold should now be muted
- 15:21:47 [tlebo]
- q?
- 15:21:50 [dgarijo]
- finally!
- 15:21:52 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 15:22:08 [pgroth]
- zakim, ??P12 is pgroth
- 15:22:08 [Zakim]
- +pgroth; got it
- 15:22:27 [tlebo]
- proposal: create an additional example for scientific domain.
- 15:22:51 [smiles]
- luc: agreed last time to start with first example for discussing concepts, bring other examples when need found
- 15:22:54 [satya]
- q-
- 15:23:04 [tlebo]
- luc: we agreed to start with this example to discuss concepts. When this scenario does not capture the concepts of sci prov, we develop new example.
- 15:23:17 [paulo]
- paulo has joined #prov
- 15:23:33 [tlebo]
- +1 working with the example as is.
- 15:23:36 [smiles]
- pgroth: we need to move on discussing concepts, but can keep iterating
- 15:23:58 [smiles]
- TOPIC: provenance access and query task force
- 15:24:04 [pgroth]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0071.html
- 15:24:15 [tlebo]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Access_and_Query_Task_Force
- 15:24:31 [smiles]
- pgroth: discussion of architecture on mailing list, any comments on how to get tf started?
- 15:24:49 [Zakim]
- +paulo
- 15:24:50 [smiles]
- olaf: we agreed on a set of objectives for F2F
- 15:25:20 [smiles]
- ... including draft for access and query architecture
- 15:25:22 [iker]
- +1 olaf proposal
- 15:25:34 [pgroth]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/XGR-prov/
- 15:25:41 [GK]
- q+, to say I'm not sure how the provenance XG report really works as a foundation
- 15:25:46 [khalidbelhajjame]
- +1 for Olaf's proposal
- 15:25:52 [smiles]
- PROPOSED: base draft architecture on XG report linked above
- 15:25:57 [d3a303]
- d3a303 has joined #prov
- 15:26:03 [dgarijo]
- +1
- 15:26:07 [SamCoppens]
- +1
- 15:26:50 [smiles]
- GK: not clear from XG report what the problem trying to be solved is
- 15:26:50 [Zakim]
- + +1.509.375.aaee
- 15:27:08 [tlebo]
- []: we need a clear problem statement for PAQ-TF.
- 15:27:12 [satya]
- q+
- 15:27:18 [smiles]
- ... will send thoughts to mailing list on this
- 15:27:26 [paulo]
- q+
- 15:27:41 [luc]
- ack satya
- 15:27:46 [smiles]
- satya: agree with Olaf, but in XG report did not discuss query mechanism only access
- 15:27:58 [smiles]
- ... will we discuss query separately?
- 15:28:21 [smiles]
- pgroth: olaf's proposal was around access, fit into web architecture
- 15:28:33 [luc]
- q+
- 15:29:57 [Zakim]
- -jorn
- 15:30:00 [tlebo]
- paulo: we need questions for the provenance example.
- 15:30:15 [smiles]
- paulo: we have scenario with list of questions which could be posed, but should have queries which motivate problem - design for answering questions asked
- 15:30:16 [Zakim]
- +??P45
- 15:30:25 [jorn]
- zakim, ??P45 is me
- 15:30:25 [Zakim]
- +jorn; got it
- 15:30:34 [tlebo]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample#Provenance_Questions
- 15:31:18 [smiles]
- luc: discussions on access task force were good, and discussion of XG report was positively received
- 15:31:31 [smiles]
- ... we were pointed to POWDER as something to consider
- 15:32:06 [smiles]
- ... queries are in scope of this WG, but not intent of WG to design a query language for provenance
- 15:32:40 [GK]
- +1 not designing a query language
- 15:32:45 [smiles]
- pgroth: two proposals to proceed: use incubator group report section to build up from
- 15:32:59 [GK]
- q+ to say not opposing use of XG doc
- 15:33:05 [pgroth]
- ack paulo
- 15:33:07 [pgroth]
- ack luc
- 15:33:09 [YogeshSimmhan]
- +1 to olaf proposal to use XG report as starting point
- 15:33:16 [Zakim]
- -Yogesh
- 15:33:18 [smiles]
- ... second, crisply define the problems we are trying to solve first
- 15:33:42 [khalidbelhajjame]
- +1
- 15:33:44 [smiles]
- +1
- 15:33:45 [Zakim]
- +Yogesh
- 15:33:45 [SamCoppens]
- +1
- 15:33:45 [jcheney]
- +1 for starting point
- 15:33:46 [simoninireland]
- +1
- 15:33:47 [olaf]
- +1
- 15:33:48 [jorn]
- +1
- 15:33:49 [dgarijo]
- +1
- 15:33:50 [tlebo]
- +1
- 15:33:50 [d3a303]
- +1
- 15:33:51 [DavidSchaengold]
- +1
- 15:33:55 [jun]
- +1 for starting point
- 15:33:56 [GK]
- +1 (taking into account resevrations noted in email)
- 15:34:04 [satya]
- I also propose that we rename PAQ task force as provenance access task force
- 15:34:05 [Edoardo_and_David]
- +1
- 15:34:09 [satya]
- +1
- 15:34:11 [dgarijo]
- also, +1 to not designing a new query language.
- 15:34:25 [Zakim]
- -paulo
- 15:34:26 [khalidbelhajjame]
- +q
- 15:34:27 [d3a303]
- d3a303 - is ericstephan - btw :-)
- 15:34:34 [pgroth]
- ack GK
- 15:34:34 [Zakim]
- GK, you wanted to say not opposing use of XG doc
- 15:34:38 [GK]
- q-
- 15:34:48 [d3a303]
- d3a303 has left #prov
- 15:34:51 [pgroth]
- ack khalidbelhajjame
- 15:35:24 [smiles]
- khalid: with regard to query language being outside scope of WG, we should be clear that only access
- 15:35:26 [smiles]
- RESOLVED: use incubator report access architecture as starting point for access and query task force F2F draft
- 15:35:30 [GK]
- q+ to say that identifying mechanisms to use existing QL is OK
- 15:35:37 [luc]
- It is still the case that we may want to explain how to use, say SPARQL, to query provenance
- 15:35:38 [ericstephan]
- ericstephan has joined #prov
- 15:35:48 [satya]
- q+
- 15:36:36 [smiles]
- pgroth: could rename access and query task force to access only, but also have reference to sparql endpoints etc in charter
- 15:36:48 [Zakim]
- +paulo
- 15:36:57 [satya]
- q-
- 15:36:57 [pgroth]
- q?
- 15:37:00 [smiles]
- satya: not proposing new query language, but say how existing languages to fit into architecture
- 15:37:36 [smiles]
- GK: maybe in scope how to make use of existing query languages, mechanisms
- 15:38:12 [smiles]
- TOPIC: concepts illustration
- 15:38:31 [pgroth]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0018.html
- 15:38:39 [pgroth]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/CharterConceptsIllustration
- 15:38:45 [smiles]
- pgroth: asked people to discuss how example can be used to illustrate concepts from charter
- 15:39:23 [paulo]
- paulo has joined #prov
- 15:39:28 [paulo]
- q+
- 15:39:29 [smiles]
- ... used scenario to propose examples for concepts - not many comments yet - are they reasonable?
- 15:39:39 [pgroth]
- ack GK
- 15:39:39 [Zakim]
- GK, you wanted to say that identifying mechanisms to use existing QL is OK
- 15:39:45 [pgroth]
- ack paulo
- 15:40:05 [Altintas]
- Altintas has joined #prov
- 15:40:19 [smiles]
- paulo: maybe limiting that example is so focused on a process
- 15:42:02 [smiles]
- ... use of process may blind us to cover all aspects we need
- 15:42:44 [paulo]
- q+
- 15:42:48 [smiles]
- pgroth: we want to define the set of concepts we want to use, need a process for this activity
- 15:43:34 [smiles]
- ... (process for wg, not in model)
- 15:43:44 [luc]
- paul: explain what an issue is
- 15:43:54 [pgroth]
- What term do we adopt for concept 'xxx' and how do we define it?"
- 15:44:13 [luc]
- paul, please explain what an issue is
- 15:44:13 [smiles]
- pgroth: raise an issue for each concept in the charter of form above
- 15:44:30 [ericstephan]
- q+
- 15:44:33 [tlebo]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/
- 15:44:39 [Zakim]
- - +1.509.375.aaee
- 15:44:45 [smiles]
- ... an issue is something which can be raised in the tracker for discussion until resolution
- 15:44:57 [pgroth]
- q-
- 15:45:02 [pgroth]
- eric?
- 15:45:22 [ericstephan]
- lost connection getting back on
- 15:45:27 [paulo]
- q+
- 15:45:29 [Zakim]
- + +1.509.375.aaff
- 15:45:37 [smiles]
- pgroth: initial set from charter, and if new concepts people can raise them as issues
- 15:45:41 [Zakim]
- -jorn
- 15:45:43 [jorn]
- zakim, aaff probably is ericstephan
- 15:45:43 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'aaff probably is ericstephan', jorn
- 15:45:44 [ericstephan]
- q+ again sorry
- 15:45:56 [Zakim]
- +??P14
- 15:46:07 [jorn]
- zakim, ??P14 is me
- 15:46:08 [Zakim]
- +jorn; got it
- 15:46:34 [jcheney]
- "issue" is just the name for something the tracker tracks...
- 15:46:46 [smiles]
- paulo: consider questions we have to be answered with model, as we may have concepts which are not answering any question
- 15:46:46 [luc]
- paulo has got a point, we have a list of queries associated with the example
- 15:47:04 [luc]
- a "w3c issue" is like a bug in bugzilla
- 15:47:35 [jcheney]
- some of them might be uncontroversial and so "resolved" immediately.
- 15:48:13 [jorn]
- zakim, aaff is probably ericstephan
- 15:48:13 [Zakim]
- +ericstephan?; got it
- 15:48:18 [smiles]
- luc: paulo is right that we do not want concepts not used in any queries, so we need to show how they are used to answer queries
- 15:48:25 [smiles]
- ... we have a list and need to extend it over time
- 15:48:48 [smiles]
- PROPOSED: raise issue for discussing each concept
- 15:48:49 [satya]
- for raising issue?
- 15:48:49 [simoninireland]
- +1
- 15:48:49 [tlebo]
- +1 using tracker
- 15:48:49 [Zakim]
- -Yolanda
- 15:48:50 [dgarijo]
- +1
- 15:48:51 [ericstephan]
- +1
- 15:48:52 [satya]
- +1
- 15:48:52 [jorn]
- +1
- 15:48:53 [jcheney]
- +1
- 15:48:53 [smiles]
- +1
- 15:48:53 [GK]
- +1
- 15:48:54 [jun]
- +1
- 15:48:54 [DavidSchaengold]
- +1
- 15:48:54 [zednik]
- +1
- 15:48:54 [Altintas]
- +1
- 15:48:55 [frew]
- +1
- 15:48:55 [SamCoppens]
- +1
- 15:48:56 [paulo]
- q+
- 15:48:57 [Edoardo_and_David]
- +1
- 15:48:58 [olaf]
- +1
- 15:48:58 [khalidbelhajjame]
- +1
- 15:49:00 [YogeshSimmhan]
- +1
- 15:49:00 [jcheney]
- q+
- 15:49:58 [smiles]
- eric: can connection task force use these concepts to identify which groups they may pertain to?
- 15:50:25 [pgroth]
- ack paulo
- 15:50:32 [pgroth]
- ack eristephan
- 15:50:41 [pgroth]
- q?
- 15:50:51 [smiles]
- jcheney: when using issue tracker, there is a formal process for asking for comments from outside
- 15:51:20 [smiles]
- ... guidance says good to have examples to illustrate disagreements
- 15:51:30 [dgarijo]
- ack ericstephan
- 15:51:31 [jcheney]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#formal-address
- 15:51:34 [jcheney]
- q-
- 15:52:06 [smiles]
- RESOLVED: use issue tracking to discuss concept definitions
- 15:52:23 [tlebo]
- wiki?
- 15:52:32 [smiles]
- pgroth: how to suggest definitions?
- 15:52:34 [luc]
- a wiki page per concept?
- 15:52:44 [tlebo]
- +1
- 15:52:47 [zednik]
- +1
- 15:52:52 [luc]
- i don't think so
- 15:53:03 [Edoardo_and_David]
- +1 a wiki page per concept
- 15:53:05 [ericstephan]
- +1 luc's idea
- 15:53:07 [jorn]
- +1
- 15:53:12 [smiles]
- pgroth: once we have a wiki page per concept, then what?
- 15:53:13 [satya]
- +1 for wiki page
- 15:53:15 [tlebo]
- q+
- 15:53:16 [luc]
- so, when we raise an issue, we also create the corresponding wiki page
- 15:53:22 [olaf]
- +1
- 15:53:29 [satya]
- Create a definition for the concept
- 15:53:35 [jun]
- +1
- 15:53:41 [SamCoppens]
- +1
- 15:53:45 [GK]
- q+ to suggest that someone familiar with W3C support tools should make proposal (on list, with links) then have us throw rocks at it?
- 15:53:47 [smiles]
- tlebo: use wiki to represent current definition, have wiki link as part of the tracker (issue)
- 15:53:57 [dgarijo]
- +1
- 15:53:58 [jorn]
- there are history links in the wiki, aren't they? so use them in emails?
- 15:53:59 [Altintas]
- +1
- 15:54:11 [luc]
- q+
- 15:54:12 [satya]
- from the XG final report?
- 15:54:16 [luc]
- ack again
- 15:54:18 [luc]
- ack sorry
- 15:54:20 [smiles]
- pgroth: how to get first set of definitions?
- 15:54:24 [luc]
- q+
- 15:54:59 [smiles]
- GK: maybe more productive for someone familiar with W3C tooling put something initial together
- 15:55:35 [ericstephan]
- ericstephan has joined #prov
- 15:55:43 [GK]
- q-
- 15:55:47 [smiles]
- luc: proposal of inviting submitting definitions is good, but some definitions may be mutually dependent, so need mechanism to cross-ref definitions
- 15:55:51 [luc]
- q-
- 15:55:53 [satya]
- a note on the wiki page of the concept to cross-reference?
- 15:56:23 [Zakim]
- -??P3
- 15:56:28 [smiles]
- PROPOSED: idea is everyone allowed to submit own definitions, then merge
- 15:56:29 [GK]
- q+ to suggest suggested definitions should be grounded in example
- 15:56:37 [luc]
- or is better to put one proposal, which get discussed?
- 15:56:44 [tlebo]
- concept references within a definition can link via wiki link.
- 15:56:58 [smiles]
- GK: in asking people to submit, could ask that grounded in example?
- 15:57:04 [dgarijo]
- +1
- 15:57:32 [smiles]
- pgroth: (agree with GK, add to proposal above)
- 15:57:43 [satya]
- + 1 for proposal 1
- 15:57:51 [smiles]
- pgroth: alternative proposal to start with one definition, and edit (based on example)
- 15:57:55 [luc]
- ... or prposed alternative definition
- 15:57:56 [tlebo]
- multiple working definitions could be placed onto the same concept's wiki page
- 15:57:57 [GK]
- q+ point of order: proposals not mutually exclusive?
- 15:58:53 [tlebo]
- what percentage of the working group can edit the wiki?
- 15:58:54 [smiles]
- GK: just suggesting that whatever process used, ground in example
- 15:58:59 [luc]
- q+
- 15:59:25 [jcheney]
- +q
- 15:59:25 [GK]
- q-
- 15:59:27 [luc]
- q-
- 15:59:33 [pgroth]
- ack tlebo
- 15:59:36 [smiles]
- luc: maybe difficult to come up with initial definitions - instead paraphrase something rather than formal definition
- 16:00:04 [smiles]
- jcheney: formal or informal definitions?
- 16:00:11 [paulo]
- q+
- 16:00:16 [zednik]
- +1 informal
- 16:00:20 [jcheney]
- q-
- 16:00:23 [jorn]
- +1 for informal first...
- 16:00:25 [Zakim]
- -??P42
- 16:00:32 [dgarijo]
- +1 to informal
- 16:00:33 [luc]
- q+
- 16:00:34 [tlebo]
- re: formality, have both rdfs/owl statements and inform descriptions on same wiki page for the concept?
- 16:00:52 [smiles]
- paulo: agree on distinction between informal and formal definitions (are informal definitions actually definitions?)
- 16:01:23 [Zakim]
- -jorn
- 16:01:28 [smiles]
- luc: half of wg did not belong to incubator, we are first trying to build a shared vocabulary
- 16:01:36 [GK]
- +1 to building shared vocabulary
- 16:01:48 [pgroth]
- pgroth has left #prov
- 16:01:53 [Zakim]
- +??P62
- 16:01:58 [pgroth]
- pgroth has joined #prov
- 16:02:00 [zednik]
- +1 to building shared vocabularly
- 16:02:06 [jorn]
- Zakim, ??p62 is me
- 16:02:06 [Zakim]
- +jorn; got it
- 16:02:06 [smiles]
- ... starting with a formal definition is not helping, informal definition using paraphrasing, examples, graphical notation is better
- 16:02:19 [olaf]
- +1 for proposal 1 with informal definitions
- 16:02:28 [jun]
- + informal
- 16:02:30 [dgarijo]
- +1
- 16:02:30 [jcheney]
- +1
- 16:02:31 [jorn]
- +1
- 16:02:31 [zednik]
- +1
- 16:02:31 [tlebo]
- +1 formal +1 informal
- 16:02:33 [ericstephan]
- +1
- 16:02:33 [frew]
- +1
- 16:02:34 [satya]
- +1 for informal
- 16:02:35 [Edoardo_and_David]
- +1
- 16:02:36 [pgroth]
- proposal for information to start
- 16:02:38 [smiles]
- pgroth: informal definitions to start?
- 16:02:39 [smiles]
- +1
- 16:02:41 [khalidbelhajjame]
- +1
- 16:02:43 [paolo]
- +1 informal
- 16:02:44 [dgarijo]
- +1 informal
- 16:02:44 [DavidSchaengold]
- +1 for informal
- 16:02:45 [GK]
- +1 start informal, build shared vocab
- 16:02:46 [CarlOGC]
- +1
- 16:02:48 [YogeshSimmhan]
- +1
- 16:02:48 [Altintas]
- +1
- 16:02:50 [SamCoppens]
- +1
- 16:02:54 [Altintas]
- or informal
- 16:03:28 [Zakim]
- -frew
- 16:03:32 [smiles]
- pgroth: will set up web pages for concepts, task for defining concepts
- 16:03:32 [Zakim]
- -jun
- 16:03:34 [Zakim]
- -SatyaSahoo
- 16:03:35 [Zakim]
- -ericstephan?
- 16:03:36 [Zakim]
- - +1.518.276.aaaa
- 16:03:39 [Zakim]
- -jcheney
- 16:03:41 [Zakim]
- -DavidSchaengold
- 16:03:42 [paolo]
- paolo has left #prov
- 16:03:43 [Zakim]
- -khalidbelhajjame
- 16:03:45 [Zakim]
- -dgarijo
- 16:03:47 [Zakim]
- - +1.858.210.aabb
- 16:03:49 [Zakim]
- -olaf
- 16:03:51 [Zakim]
- -Yogesh
- 16:03:53 [Zakim]
- -paolo_
- 16:03:55 [Zakim]
- -zednik
- 16:03:57 [Zakim]
- -VinhNguyen
- 16:04:01 [Zakim]
- -luc
- 16:04:01 [smiles]
- rrsagent, set log public
- 16:04:03 [Zakim]
- -GK
- 16:04:04 [ericstephan]
- Yes Zakim?
- 16:04:07 [Zakim]
- -paulo
- 16:04:07 [pgroth]
- pgroth has left #prov
- 16:04:09 [Zakim]
- -??P35
- 16:04:11 [smiles]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:04:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-minutes.html smiles
- 16:04:15 [Zakim]
- -tlebo
- 16:04:17 [Zakim]
- -??P4
- 16:04:17 [luc]
- thanks simon
- 16:04:21 [Zakim]
- -??P17
- 16:04:27 [Zakim]
- -pgroth
- 16:04:28 [smiles]
- trackbot, end telcon
- 16:04:28 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 16:04:29 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, DavidSchaengold, +1.858.210.aabb, jorn, tlebo, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, SatyaSahoo, paolo_, olaf,
- 16:04:29 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 16:04:29 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-minutes.html trackbot
- 16:04:30 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 16:04:30 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items
- 16:04:32 [Zakim]
- ... +1.518.633.aadd, Yogesh, jun, jcheney, khalidbelhajjame, zednik, Yolanda, SamCoppens, frew, GK, VinhNguyen, paulo, +1.509.375.aaee, +1.509.375.aaff, ericstephan?