Web Events WG Voice Conference

19 Jul 2011


See also: IRC log


Art_Barstow, Matt_Brubeck, Olli_Pettay, Sangwhan_Moon, Cathy_Chan, Doug_Schepers


<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

<scribe> Scribe: Art

Date: 19 July 2011

<smaug> but Zakim bridge does say anything..

<smaug> I've always called to us number

Tweak Agenda

AB: I submitted the draft agenda yesterday ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0003.html ). It is the same agenda as the June 28 draft agenda and that meeting was canceled.
... without Laszlo nor Doug, we will probably skip their issues i.e. Issue-16 and Issue-17
... any change requests?


AB: Any short announcements?

<mbrubeck> https://market.android.com/details?id=org.mozilla.firefox_beta supports touch events

MB: FF beta on Android now supports Touch Events

AB: great news Matt!

Issue-3: Click event target after DOM mutation during touchstart;

AB: Issue-3 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/3 ) has Action-52 for Matt ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/52 ). We last discussed this on June 14 ( http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-webevents-minutes.html#item03 ).

MB: I think we have consensus on this
... I just need to write the text
... and then send it for review

AB: is that on target for this week?

MB: yes

AB: so after you check in a change, will you notify the group?

MB: yes

FF Beta of Touch Events

DS: what is supported?

MB: supports most of the attributes
... does not support touchleave and touchenter
... supports identifiedTouch method
... think it is the first browser to support that

<mbrubeck> The current version tracks only a single touch point at a time; multitouch will come later.

DS: what about touch area?
... it doesn't support that?

MB: that's correct we don't support that
... but we intend to support it

Issue-16: Should the spec be silent or prescriptive re Object Identity

AB: Issue-16 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/16 ) has Action-53 for Doug ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/53 ). We last discussed this on June 14 ( http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-webevents-minutes.html#item04 ).
... Doug, what's the status?

DS: I thought someone else agreed to take this
... I will submit something today

AB: ok; great

Issue-17: Page X and Y parameters to createTouch

AB: Issue-17 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/17 ) has Action-55 for Laszlo ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/55 ). We last discussed this on June 14 ( http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-webevents-minutes.html#item05 ).
... but Laszlo isn't here today
... so we should probably skip it
... All: Do we feel this must be addressed in v1 i.e. block Last Call Working Draft?
... broadly speaking, this issue is about WebKit compatibility. However, when I looked at the minutes, the specific sub-issues are unclear, possibly because the title of Issue-17 isn't quite right.
... which Interface and method(s) is this about? TouchEvent.initTouchEvent() and/or DocumentTouch.createTouch()?
... which parameter sets are we unsure about pageX/Y, clientX/Y, screenX/Y?

MB: there is an issue re webkit diffs with create method

DS: perhaps we should break it into separate issues

AB: that's fine with me
... what is the first sub issue here?

MB: the old issue can be closed
... the new issue is about parameters to initTouchEvent

<Sangwhan> https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-unassigned/2011-May/326134.html

<Sangwhan> https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/WebCore/dom/TouchEvent.idl?rev=52113#L40

<Sangwhan> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/tip/touchevents.html#touchevent-interface

[ Matt does some research ... ]

SM: there has been some related discussion on the webkit list

<Sangwhan> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60612

<mbrubeck> WebKit has screenX/Y and clientX/Y parameters in the initTouchEvent method, while the W3C spec does not; how are they used, and should they be added to the W3C spec (or removed from WebKit)?

<smaug> hmm, http://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#documentation/UserExperience/Reference/TouchEventClassReference/TouchEvent/TouchEvent.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40009358 is strange. Apple's touch events take all sorts of coordinates as parameters to initToucEvent, but I can't see how one can access those values

MB: would be good if we could get those webkit people involved with our discussion

DS: agree

MB: we can also discuss this in the webkit bug

AB: my preference would be to discuss this on public-webevents
... draft issue title is: align initTouchEvent parameters with webkit?

ISSUE: align initTouchEvent parameters with Webkit

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-19 - Align initTouchEvent parameters with Webkit ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/19/edit .

AB: so should we close I-17 then?

MB: yes, I think the original issue is resolved

AB: any objections to closing I-17?

[ None ]

<scribe> ACTION: barstow close Issue-17 with poiner to 19-July-2011 minutes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-webevents-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Close Issue-17 with poiner to 19-July-2011 minutes [on Arthur Barstow - due 2011-07-26].

AB: is there another issue here?

MB: no, I think we got it

DS: agree

Issue-18: The spec needs more examples related to the various lists

AB: Issue-18 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/18 ) has Action-57 for Sangwhan ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/57 ). We last discussed this on June 21 ( http://www.w3.org/2011/06/21-webevents-minutes.html#item06 ).

<Sangwhan> http://pastebin.com/D7LUCfev

SM: I wrote some preliminary stuff
... not sure if this is what we want
... was focusing on the different lists
... I could use some help with example code
... and if anyone has suggestions, they would be welcome

DS: I'm skimming on it

AB: this seems to be a use case approach
... i.e. here's how you do X, here's how you do Z

SM: yes, that's right

DS: I think this is good as is

SM: there are some additional properties I could cover

DS: for a first example, I think this is fine
... we can always add more later

MB: would like to write a narrative about how events are generated if a user uses multi touch

SM: yes, something like that would be nice
... I don't recall any interesting graphics

DS: there is some precedence for that

AB: oh, yes, that would be welcome

SM: ok; then I'll create some more detailed example as Matt suggested

AB: should be encourage SM to checkin what he has?

DS: yes

MB: ok

AB: please do Sangwhan
... my proposal is that I close Issue-18 after Sangwhan's checkin
... and then any other non-normative examples can be checked in at any stage
... any objections to closing I-18 after SM's checkin?

[ None ]

Preparing Touch Events v1 spec for Last Call WD

AB: Doug has Action-56 "Update the Touch Event spec to use markup to facilitate test case extraction" ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/56 ).
... I believe we want this before splitting the spec into v1 and v2

DS: I did some work on this
... I spent too much time with ReSpec
... we won't publish with Respec scripts active
... So I am going to edit it manually without ReSpec javascript
... Matt has the action to split the spec into v1 and v2
... I apologize for the delay

MB: I can start on the v1 and v2 split

DS: not sure about the best way fwd
... should I markup the spec before the split?

MB: if you are ready to start adding testing markup
... think it would be easier if that was done before the v1/v2 split

DS: OK; I will add it this week

AB: how many are there?

DS: think there about 40 testable assertions
... we can get real granular here
... and that can start to rat-hole
... Each testable assert will have 1) and ID; and 2) a class that says which "Conformance Class" it meets
... e.g. UA conformance; Author conformance; etc.
... Don't want to mark absolutely everything
... and then we can refine the approach as we go
... and perhaps be more detailed in v2
... has anyone started writing tests?

MB: we have written some tests
... want them to be usable for Touch Events spec
... I have checked in some tests already

SM: we have about 20 tests
... they match the spec rather than Webkit impl
... expect the WG can use them
... but they will need some cleanup first

AB: so it sound like Doug will have his markup changes by the end of this week

DS: yes, that is my plan

AB: so my conclusion is that Issue-19 is the only piece of work we need to close
... and that we are getting close to LC

Any other Business

<Sangwhan> http://www.khronos.org/news/categories/C255

SM: the Khronos Group is working on Stream Input
... seems to be in line with what we want to do in our High Level spec

AB: I wasn't aware of this work

SM: I am in contact with the person behind this
... he seems to be interested in getting these specs to interoperate
... I hope to have some indepth discussions

DS: this looks related to W3C's MMI work
... especially their EMMA spec
... which is used for HTML Speech

OP: EMMA is a container for any speech recognition results

DS: yes, we should talk to them
... especially if it is implemented in browsers

SM: yes, that's the point
... I think they haven't started much
... thus the earlier the better

AB: that's probably another good reason for us to move v1 to LC

SM: other WG members are involved with this Khronos effort

DS: agree we don't want fragmentation

<scribe> ACTION: barstow follow-up this Khronos Stream Input work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-webevents-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-59 - Follow-up this Khronos Stream Input work [on Arthur Barstow - due 2011-07-26].

AB: others should read their doc too

DS: there is other stream-type work going on at the W3C now
... e.g. the WRTC WG

AB: what about a meeting next week?
... plan on a meeting July 26
... meeting adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: barstow close Issue-17 with poiner to 19-July-2011 minutes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-webevents-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: barstow follow-up this Khronos Stream Input work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-webevents-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.136 (CVS log)
$Date: 2011/07/19 15:54:47 $

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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/hwhan/whan/
Found ScribeNick: ArtB
Found Scribe: Art
Present: Art_Barstow Matt_Brubeck Olli_Pettay Sangwhan_Moon Cathy_Chan Doug_Schepers
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0003.html
Found Date: 19 Jul 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-webevents-minutes.html
People with action items: barstow close issue-17 poiner with

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