See also: IRC log
<MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
<janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action06
actions from last week: http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#ActionSummary
<janina> Status: Joshue O'Connor and Katie Haritos-Shea have taken up a Table Summary CP
<janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action05
<scribe> ACTION: [DONE] janina follow up with wendy or cynthia to see if willing to take on table summary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/20-text-minutes.html#action01]
<janina> Status: Done. A discussion has been ongoing on the HTML-WG list
<janina> We'll get to this shortly in this meeting.
<scribe> ACTION: [DONE] janina will start the conversation thread with jason about the three concerns just above [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/20-text-minutes.html#action02]
should be Jonas, not Jason
<janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action02
<scribe> ACTION: [UNKNOWN] jb ask Laura if int in helping review img element [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/20-text-minutes.html#action03]
<richardschwerdtfe> scribe: Rich
<richardschwerdtfe> janina: no status on this yet
<janina> Status: Unknown, don't know whether Judy followed up with Laura. We do need help on LC reviews.
<janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action04
<richardschwerdtfe> janina: I believe this one is done
<janina> Status: Done. An email conversation has occured. At the moment no deadlines from HTML Chairs, but we're asked to get things in asap.
<scribe> scribeNick: richardschwerdtfe
RESOLUTION: close this action as completed.
<janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action01
<janina> Status: Unknown
janina: this is on judy to contact andrew kirkpatrick to help with last call reviews on svg, img, and contenteditable for the spec.
<janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action07
Rich: changing this would require ARIA to go back to last call
janina: in the UAIG, where we had alt="foo" and role-"presentation" we had a situation where it is NOT an error
Rich: the example had to do with entering data in a filed with aria-required
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Jun/0139.html
janina: I will find the
example
... we close this defect and we no longer have a bug on
role="presentation" and alt="foo"
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-pf-minutes.html#item12
see the example by James Nurthen
janina: we discussed this in the User Agent Implementation Guide for ARia
<img alt="required" role="presentation"><input aria-required="true">
jf: I still see a conflict
... this is an example where it is critical
rich: aria-required states to the
at that it is required
... role="presentation" trumps alt in ARIA spec.
jf: I want a warning
janina: even though we showed a valid use case
jf: If we have alt="foo" and role="presentation" it is a warning. Do we do it in the accessibility test tools or in the HTML validation?
rich: I think this would be better placed in a web accessibility test tool vs. html validation.
jf: I agree
Leonie: I agree
Rich: How do we get this addressed in WCAG?
JF: good question. This may be a PF issue
janina: we need a technique
Rich: I am supportive of checking
this in a test tool
... Michael you want an action to take this back to WCAG 2?
Michael: we need an action for someone to create a technique?
<scribe> ACTION: jfoliot to create a technique for the WCAG 2 working group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/20-text-minutes.html#action04]
janina: the group should create a list of techniques that need to be created but not actually create them
michael: If you want to pull John into the working group that does this that is fine but from a WCAG working group perspective they do not care
jf: I will write this up in an email
<janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action03
rich: I have not done this
yet
... will do so however
janina: per my action item last
week I did post to the HTML list. We will be look at the
aria-based proposal using ARIA for this
... this was from Jonas
... the proposal is that we leave "it" in and make it
conforming?
... are they adopting the proposal from Laura?
... having all this work gone into enhancing longdesc people
may not be willing to drop those changes in support of
something that was available but obsolete
jf: these are not just
enhancements but they are identifications of deficiencies
... these are things the browser could and should expose to
non-impaired users
... from an authoring perspective nothing has changed. we are
specifying what user agents should be doing
... I don't think that there is an appetite for obsolete but
conforming
janina: I am not sure what the it is ...
jf: what do we benefit by making it conforming but obsolete
rich: obsolete states that there is a better replacement
jf: yes
... we need the ability of the end user to consume or not
consume
... image maps, once you hit a region, you get the alt
text
... there is not place in HTML that addresses the user's being
able to consume or not consume
... ... the corporate logo
... I don't see it would garner more support now since we have
garnered interest in supporting longdesc
janina: there is not steam behind Jonas proposal
rich: we fixed the issues they
were concerned about and now they still don't want it
... put the proposal in and let them take their shot
janina: we rconfirm our support of the change proposal on longdesc
rich: when will the call for alternate proposals appear?
janina: already done. the
deadline is Saturday June 5
... we will be pushing the chairs to move on this sooner rather
than later
jf: I had the Social Security CIO
listing meeting at Stanford recently
... meta generator: I will get with Steve this week
... it is taking Leif's proposal to make sure it is
cohesive
janina: the validator could help
us test for length
... mike smith was amenable to that
thx
janina: I will double check
... we are making progress and can discuss on Thursday
... any more on the alt decision
jf: no
... we are close to stopping the Monday calls
janina: good
janina: what would be helpful in
filing a bug would be to supply emails with sets of examples
showing examples - such as for figcaption
... Jeff, judy said that you and she were looking at that
... can we put together 6 examples of figcaption that are
acceptable and that are not
Jeff: sure
... I will talk to Judy about this
janina: Jeff, are you available on Wednesday for the media topic on the user experience when you come across 4-5 videos on the screeen and you have descriptions for each.
jeff: at 5:30 to 7?
jf: we can put you at the top of the agenda
Jeff: let me look into that tonight
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