See also: IRC log
<TomB> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html
<TomB> Scribe: Kefo
<TomB> scribenick: kefo
<markva> zakim threw me out...
<pmurray> zakim ack me
RESOLUTION: Accept previous minutes
Antoine: Small, informal mtg in Cologne
Antoine: Talked about topics of
incubator group
... and future outcomes of the group
... perhaps it would be best to distribute a written report
Tomb: let's discuss the issue of
terminology
... but first attend to current agenda items
... maybe in next calls we establish shared terminology
antoine: met for 4 hours
tomb: should we continue with agenda and distribute notes by another method
antoine: participants believe it
best to conduct conversation via email
... and only later talk about specific items on calls
tomb: discuss in future
calls
... keep placemarker for future calls
kai: problems defining what was
expected from cluster
... would like feedback from group
... began by defining a citation
... based on use cases, concluded needed a broader definition
than just something bibliograrphic
... discussed scope of cluster
... citing, citations, citation format, link/cite difference,
and backlinks in scope
... out of scope: defining new citation representations
... also identified citation granularity as relevant
... level 1 is a basic string in the text of a
publication
... level 2 is a structured citation
... level 3 actually linked citation
... identified a few additional use cases
... ability to register agreeement/disagreement with
citation
... and jumping to cited resource are two examples
<markva> this appears to overlap with Goals and Scenario (emma's suggestion)
kai: next step is to extract
requirements from these added use cases.
... provided a section detailing existing technologies and
vocabularies that may be helpful moving forward
... also identified new questions that may need to be
addressed
TomB: good start. I see a
definition of citations in the scope of linked data. What is
the function of a citation in linked data and how can that
function be achieved (uris are one way)?
... What other ways might there be to identify citations in a
linked data environment?
... I would expect citation cluster to frame the problem of
what is a citation in a LD context and then look at use cases
to determine the ways and methods that are employed to address
problem.
kai: I'd like to take a step back and ask what we hope to achieve with the documents we're producing about the clusters
<markva> +1
kai: We certainly need our own definition for citations in linked data
TomB: It is important to start
with defining a citation in light of linked data adn then go on
to explore how that is manifested in the use cases
... Why work in the Google Docs enviro versus XG wiki?
<edsu> better for live editing ...
TomB: Technical reason or a desire not to show work-in-progress
<jeff_> better for simultaneous collaborative editing
kai: We'll be moving to Wiki soon.
edsu: Thanks kai for thorough description of our work to-date. TomB, I hear your concerns. In my mind, LD is a technology and one that can be used to represent citations. But, w/o knowing what a citation is in the absence of technology, we can't identify the needs for LD.
<TomB> +1 to define citations generically before saying what they mean in the linked data context
markva: Lots of interesting
material. procedural question: If you merge into Wiki, will it
break into different sections?
... What is the structure of the document we're all working
toward based on the clusters.
<antoine> I think the 'extracted use cases' are indeed Emma's 'scenarios'
TomB: Could be useful to have a scaffolding of subsections, with idea that for final report we cut out superfluous sub-headings
markva: I don't know if I understand. We only have structure for use cases.
TomB: Let's not worry about establishing a formal template for the cluster reports right now.
<markva> ZAKIM< MUTE ME
TomB: INclined to let groups
develop a structure best-suited to their findings
... Let's get it on paper and then determine areas of overlap
and streamlined organization
edsu: I want to echo Mark's
points.
... If there is a specific goal for hte group, it would help
the groups focus their work.
<antoine> +1
<pmurray> I agree with edsu; more structure would have been helpful for our conversation.
edsu: Otherwise, the disparity in the resulting documents might require a great deal of massaging in the end.
antoine: I agree fully with Ed.
<edsu> +1
<edsu> :-)
<kai> +1, but maybe we should have the presentation of a very different cluster first to see the differences and similarities.
TomB: Believes groups need some
latitude in creating their reports.
... But, perhaps, we could work to identify 3 or 4 headings
that might be shared across all the groups.
... Is this a reasonable compromise. We don't lose time
defining a template, but we do determine a few headings that
apply across all the clusters.
<pmurray> I agree, if it can be done at this point.
edsu: I think this would be useful, especially if we can identify the 3 or 4 headings quickly
<markva> +1
edsu: This would help to provide some guidance to the others.
<antoine> +q
TomB: nearing the end. Anything else?
antoine: I have two headings: I like hte relevant technologies/vocabularies section.
what was teh other?
<kai> Extracted Use Cases / Scenarios, however we name it
antoine: for a third, I like the
background definitions. Such as, in the citation example, where
what a citation is defined - the intoductory section
... the second was the extracted use cases / scenarios
section
edsu: Kai, Peter, and I can rework the document to fit the proposed headings
<edsu> i have 1) Background 2) Topic in the Context of Linked Data 3) Scenarios (Extracted Use Cases) 4) Relevant Technologies Vocabularies
<scribe> ACTION: Citation cluster group to place Google Docs document into XG Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-lld-minutes.html#action01]
<edsu> markva: would be interested to hear if this fits how you've been thinking about it
TomB: Must this remain on the
agenda?
... I propose we remove it otherwise.
<Asaf_> +1
<edsu> +1
<scribe> ACTION: Remove PAUL WALK'S TOOL AND ANALYSIS from Agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-lld-minutes.html#action02]
antoine: Two primary topics for
the draft that we think we're missing, related to education and
outreach
... firstly, wanted to emphasize opportunities of LD for
libraries and other users. We need some scenarios demonstrating
_why_ a library would want to do LD
... a type of benefits section at the front of report
... targeting library managers/administrators
... secondly, education. Guenther was interested in what the
curricula for training or what the qualifications a library
professional would need for LD
... Guenther is going to establish a Wiki page for this.
<pmurray> That is huge, and important.
TomB: Propose we put an intro section into the report outline with and Education section
<markva> bye
<danbri> yay, my first LLD call. all of 13 minutes!
<digikim> thanks
<TomB> ACTION: Antoine to add "LOD curriculum" into "recommendations" section of Outline, and benefits into an Introduction [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-lld-minutes.html#action03]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Resolved/RESOLVED/ Succeeded: s/Topic/TOPIC/ Succeeded: s/ansence/absence/ Found Scribe: Kefo Found ScribeNick: kefo Default Present: antoine, jeff_, kai, michaelp, TomB, kefo, Asaf_, pmurray, markva, edsu, digikim, rayd, [IPcaller], Felix, danbri Present: antoine jeff_ kai michaelp TomB kefo Asaf_ pmurray markva edsu digikim rayd [IPcaller] Felix danbri Regrets: Ed Jodi Emmanuelle Joachim Guenther Marcia Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0006.html Got date from IRC log name: 02 Dec 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-lld-minutes.html People with action items: antoine citation cluster group remove[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]