HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 02 Dec 2010

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: Define how we create a 'specified CSS element reference identifier'. This maybe should move from HTML to CSSOM. (whatwg r5695) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Dec/0006.html>

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: There might not be one, e.g. if the iframe is out-of-document. (whatwg r5696) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Dec/0007.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11395] Use media queries to select appropriate <track> elements <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0087.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 11395] Use media queries to select appropriate <track> elements" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0088.html>

<pimpbot> planet: Standardizing HTML6 through the W3C – My Trip to TPAC 2010 <11http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/12/01/standardizing-html6-through-the-w3c-my-trip-to-tpac-2010.aspx>

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: case consistency (whatwg r5698) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Dec/0008.html>

<pimpbot> planet: Firefox/Gecko Delivery Meeting Minutes: 2010-12-01 <11http://blog.mozilla.com/meeting-notes/archives/445>

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: make sure the definitions of 'nested browsing context' make sense when you consider that iframes can be removed from a document (whatwg r5699) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Dec/0009.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10812] i18n comment 7 : line breaks in textarea and pre elements <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0090.html> 4** [Bug 11452] New: 4.10.22.5.5. should describe how to send the filename when the field is a file field. It should send the filename as "filename" parameter and its character encoding must be _charset_. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0089.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11450] Reconsider <img src=""> with a base URL <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0092.html> 4** [Bug 11452] 4.10.22.5.5. should describe how to send the filename when the field is a file field. It should send the filename as "filename" parameter and its character encoding must be _charset_. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0091.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10803] Ignore document.written charset metas <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0093.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11450] Reconsider <img src=""> with a base URL <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0094.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 11452] 4.10.22.5.5. should describe how to send the filename when the field is a file field. It should send the filename as "filename" parameter and its character encoding must be _charset_." (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0096.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11323] Don't run scripts when the owner doc isn't the inserter parser's doc or when the owner doc is not the same at "run" and "execute" time <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0097.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11453] New: The timeupdate event should distinguish normal play <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0098.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10964] Canvas needs to support a backing store in the DOM subtree capable of supporting screen reading <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0099.html>

<CIA-1> v.nu-build: 03hsivonen * r100 10/trunk/ (README build.py): Change the build script to use hg instead of svn and the README to instruct the use of hg instead of svn.

<rubys> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Date: 02 December 2010

<pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-12-02: status, task force reports, deadlines and publications, meeting schedule from Sam Ruby on 2010-12-01 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from October to December 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

<scribe> ScribeNick: adrianba

<scribe> Scribe: Adrian Bateman

ACTION items due by Thursday, December 2

ACTION-193?

<trackbot> ACTION-193 -- Paul Cotton to and co-chairs to investigate how to handle standardization of websrt -- due 2010-12-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/193

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-193: And co-chairs to investigate how to handle standardization of websrt - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<Julian> sam, I can barely hear you

rubys: still investigating and discussing with W3C staff

<paulc> I cannot hear Sam.

ACTION-193 due next week

<trackbot> ACTION-193 And co-chairs to investigate how to handle standardization of websrt due date now next week

<rubys> paulc: anything you want to add on ACTION-193?

paulc: continuing to investigate and started dialogue with Ian Hickson about bringing WebSRT to W3C
... still continuing that discussion

ACTION-193 due dec 16

<trackbot> ACTION-193 And co-chairs to investigate how to handle standardization of websrt due date now dec 16

ACTION-196?

<trackbot> ACTION-196 -- Julian Reschke to ask the IANA designated experts if this would be an acceptable model -- due 2010-11-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/196

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-196: Ask the IANA designated experts if this would be an acceptable model - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<Julian> my follow up on ACTION-196: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Nov/0307.html

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-196 (IANA rel regs that are currently deferred) from Julian Reschke on 2010-11-19 (public-html@w3.org from November 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

rubys: I know there was some discussion on the mailing list

<paulc> My new phone connection is much better. No longer having audio problems.

julian: i followed up on that - i think the action can be closed

rubys: maciej asked some follow-up questions - they may not be related to the action
... any objections to closing the action?

close ACTION-196

<trackbot> ACTION-196 Ask the IANA designated experts if this would be an acceptable model closed

New Issues This Week

rubys: 4 new issues

ISSUE-145?

<trackbot> ISSUE-145 -- use of "codecs" parameter -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/145

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-145: use of "codecs" parameter - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-146?

<trackbot> ISSUE-146 -- <video> should allow muted as a content attribute -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/146

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-146: should allow muted as a content attribute - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-147?

<trackbot> ISSUE-147 -- playbackrate: undefined behavior when the user agent can't play back at the requested rate -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/147

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-147: playbackrate: undefined behavior when the user agent cant play back at the requested rate - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-148?

<trackbot> ISSUE-148 -- Algorithm for detecting the charset="" parameter -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/148

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-148: Algorithm for detecting the charset="" parameter - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: any questions or comments?

Items Closed Last TWO Weeks

ISSUE-128?

<trackbot> ISSUE-128 -- Authors should be able to use <figure> where <img> can be used -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/128

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-128: Authors should be able to use where can be used - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: no further proposals - proceeding to survey

ISSUE-27?

<trackbot> ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-27: @rel value ownership, registry consideration - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010OctDec/0017.html

rubys: we did not get any advocates for the wiki is fine proposal so that will be dropped

<rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010OctDec/0017.html

rubys: currently another proposal being developed by Edward O'Connor
... any discussion?

ISSUE-118?

<trackbot> ISSUE-118 -- Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations "index" and "first" -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/118

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-118: Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations "index" and "first" - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: alternate proposals were due nov 21 - currently have 3 proposals

ISSUE-127?

<trackbot> ISSUE-127 -- Simplify characterization of link types -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/127

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-127: Simplify characterization of link types - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010OctDec/0017.html

rubys: we did get a change proposal for this

rubys: at some point it will go on to a survey

ISSUE-129?

<trackbot> ISSUE-129 -- replace or modify the ARIA section of the HTML5 spec -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/129

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-129: replace or modify the ARIA section of the HTML5 spec - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010OctDec/0017.html

rubys: got a change proposal so this will go on the queue

ISSUE-122?

<trackbot> ISSUE-122 -- alt text and description for Lady of Shalott example -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/122

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-122: alt text and description for Lady of Shalott example - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010OctDec/0017.html

rubys: we did get a change proposal, we have not received an alternate proposal

janina: we have a proposal in the task force, think we will forward in another 48 hours

rubys: okay

Items Closing This Week

<rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010OctDec/0017.html

rubys: None

Items Closing Next Week

ISSUE-124?

<trackbot> ISSUE-124 -- nofollow/noreferrer not allowed on <link> -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/124

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-124: nofollow/noreferrer not allowed on - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: we have a proposal and an alternate, if anyone want so to suggest something else please do

ISSUE-130?

<trackbot> ISSUE-130 -- allow tables to be used for layout purposes -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/130

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-130: allow tables to be used for layout purposes - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: proposals due dec 10, none received yet

ISSUE-132?

<trackbot> ISSUE-132 -- Drop the color input type -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/132

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-132: Drop the color input type - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: same status, dec 10 and no proposals yet

ISSUE-133?

<trackbot> ISSUE-133 -- Add a modal attribute to html5 to indicate a modal segment of the DOM (modal dialog) -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/133

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-133: Add a modal attribute to html5 to indicate a modal segment of the DOM (modal dialog) - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: same again

ISSUE-137?

<trackbot> ISSUE-137 -- Since Javascript does not support mode specifiers inside the regular expression, there is no simple way of matching a single word case-insensitively besides turning into [Ww][Oo][Rr][Dd] -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/137

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-137: Since Javascript does not support mode specifiers inside the regular expression, there is no simple way of matching a single word case-insensitively besides turning into [Ww][Oo][Rr][Dd] - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: no proposals received, same due date, some discussion on the list - we'll see if a proposal comes out of that

New Calls this week

rubys: 6 calls, 3 for counter proposals and 3 for change proposals all due jan 12

ISSUE-119?

<trackbot> ISSUE-119 -- Certain relationships take on a special meaning when repeated; other solutions may be cleaner -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/119

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-119: Certain relationships take on a special meaning when repeated; other solutions may be cleaner - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-125?

<trackbot> ISSUE-125 -- Requirement to break RFC 2616 compliance with respect to single quotes not needed for legacy content -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/125

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-125: Requirement to break RFC 2616 compliance with respect to single quotes not needed for legacy content - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-126?

<trackbot> ISSUE-126 -- Requirement to break RFC 2616 compliance with respect to backslashes not needed for legacy content -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/126

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-126: Requirement to break RFC 2616 compliance with respect to backslashes not needed for legacy content - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-134?

<trackbot> ISSUE-134 -- Provide tablist and tab states for menu and command elements respectively -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-134: Provide tablist and tab states for menu and command elements respectively - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-136?

<trackbot> ISSUE-136 -- would the <small> element be better handled in CSS? -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/136

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-136: would the element be better handled in CSS? - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-138?

<trackbot> ISSUE-138 -- "mutate action" for issueing a GET request is misleading -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/138

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-138: "mutate action" for issueing a GET request is misleading - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: questions or comments?

New Surveys this week

ISSUE-128?

<trackbot> ISSUE-128 -- Authors should be able to use <figure> where <img> can be used -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/128

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-128: Authors should be able to use where can be used - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: survey closes dec 8, two responses so far

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11455] New: Additionally, the users should be asked, if they would like to increase the cache amount for a special site. This could either be done be providing a popup when downloading into the cache or could be done through a whitelist in the browser settings. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Dec/0100.html>

Task Force Reports - Testing Task Force

<krisk> Very, Very Busy month - list had 138 posts (past max was 55, normally around 30 posts)

krisk: been a very busy month - 138 posts in november which is a ton of traffic, lots of participation
... met on nov 16 and nov 30

<krisk> here are the notes-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2010Dec/0005.html

<pimpbot> Title: RE: HTML Testing Task Force Conf Call Agenda 11/30/2010 (notes) from Kris Krueger on 2010-12-02 (public-html-testsuite@w3.org from December 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

<krisk> and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2010Nov/0118.html

<pimpbot> Title: RE: HTML Testing Task Force Conf Call Agenda 11/16/2010 from Kris Krueger on 2010-11-30 (public-html-testsuite@w3.org from November 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

krisk: we don't have any more bugs on approved tests
... we approved some MathML foreign content tests from a new participant
... one of the action items from tpac was to make more progress on tests waiting to be reviewed
... we picked a date of jan 3 to approve all of Philip Taylor's canvas tests
... if people have feedback, please respond to the list before then
... also a nice submission from Google on audio/video tests - 150 tests - just need a few fixes
... that's about it - we meet once more this month because of the holidays

rubys: comments or questions?

Task Force Reports - Accessibility

janina: also lots of accessibility activity
... starting with media

ISSUE-9?

<trackbot> ISSUE-9 -- how accessibility works for <video> is unclear -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/9

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-9: how accessibility works for is unclear - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

janina: we reviewing two formats and reviewing gaps between what TTML and WebSRT can do
... and so what gaps need to be filled
... lots of discussion about this - a call before thanksgiving and another yesterday
... within days of delivering a short summary report as a guide to where the gaps are with additional detail to follow
... by this meeting next week we'll have delivered a report to the group about the gaps
... in terms of the discussion about forming a group for timed text formats and what needs to be specified
... there is agreement that a new group might be a good way to proceed but there is some disagreement about what the scope should be
... should it be only about WebSRT or also include a profile of TTML for example
... not ready to make a recommendation for that
... also looking at synchronisation and timing to chapters and sub-chapters for alternate binary tracks
... think those are the remaining pieces to deliver for media to move this to a conclusion
... any questions on media?
... okay, another activity came out of bug triaging group
... put together a table for fallback details from what is specified in the spec
... little more work needed but in december we will forward on to the working group
... in order to illustrate why certain kind of fallback are for a11y and which are generic
... we suspect some of this may be controversial and will need discussion in the wider group
... so we have a milestone report that will be ready in a week or two to start a conversation in the WG
... a couple of change proposals on the way
... for 133 and 31

<Laura> Change Proposal Choices for alt ISSUE 31

<Laura> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElementSurveyConformaceChoices

<pimpbot> Title: ChangeProposals/ImgElementSurveyConformaceChoices - HTML WG Wiki (at www.w3.org)

janina: canvas subteam is meeting and they are continuing - quite a bit left to do
... think that's it for now
... one more future thing: result of lyon
... PF has the interest to review HTML specs from top to bottom - that's what we're chartered to do
... many of the a11y bugs were created from a top-to-bottom review previously with WAI
... we're looking at how to do that - we discussed at tpac
... when we find issues where a11y isn't well handled one approach is to write a wcag technique
... which we should document - we need them for html5 especially around the time that html5 goes to CR
... if we can capture them during a review then we could do that
... result would be a joint task force between PF and WCAG - expect charter in january
... won't see anything real soon but important to know it is going on - hopeful result is that we'll have techniques in wcag for html5
... that's it

<paulc> Call is silent again.

Deadlines and Publications

rubys: dec 8 is dealine for resolving all pre-lc1

<rubys> http://tinyurl.com/2bu9vvr

rubys: we're down to a dozen or so

<pimpbot> Title: Bug List (at tinyurl.com)

rubys: once this deadline is met we plan to submit each document for publication
... we'll ask each editor to include a work in progress note like the html5 doc
... any questions or comments on that plan?

paulc: is the bug list current?

rubys: i believe so - it's directly to bugzilla

paulc: i thought we had less

rubys: this is across all documents

Meeting Schedule

rubys: due to holidays, cancelling the telcons on dec 23 and dec 30
... any objections?

Other business

rubys: anything?
... none heard

Scribe for next meeting

rubys: any volunteers?

paulc: maciej should be chairing
... sam or paul will scribe

Adjournment

rubys: any objections?
... now adjourned, thanks everybody

- DRAFT -

HTML Weekly Teleconference

02 Dec 2010

Attendees

Contents

ACTION items due by Thursday, December 2

New Issues This Week

Items Closed Last TWO Weeks

Items Closing This Week

Items Closing Next Week

New Calls this week

New Surveys this week

Task Force Reports - Testing Task Force

Task Force Reports - Accessibility

Deadlines and Publications

Meeting Schedule

Other business

Scribe for next meeting

Adjournment

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output