Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference

 

 

<trackbot> Date: 02 September 2009

http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/

1. ADMIN

PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 26 August 2009 telecon

http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html

<silvia> +1

<davy> +1

+1

Minutes accepted

<Yves> +1

Quick poll: http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw

We are still missing answers from Jack and Conrad

scribe: we are likely to meet during these 2 time slots on Thu 17 and Fri 18/09

[silence]

Anyone has a proposal for a virtual blackboard tool we could use ?

<tmichel> I can book Zakim

<scribe> ACTION: Thierry to book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from 10:00 till 12:00 CET [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - Book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from 10:00 till 12:00 CET [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-09-09].

<tmichel> Ok will convert To prper Time

thanks

Yves and I will most likely share an office during the call

2. UC and Requirements

ACTION-101?

<trackbot> ACTION-101 -- Yves Lafon to write a UC describing the use of aspect ratio feature and thus motivating its usage -- due 2009-09-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/101

<scribe> ... pending

Raphael: reviews of our documents will come from the Media Annotations WG (Felix), and TimedText (Philippe)
... Chris from SVG said that they were interested to review it, but I don't know whether they have done something

Yves: I will relaunch TAG early next week

3. Specification

3.1: Terminology

Silvia: proposal to replace all occurence of URI by URI Ref, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Aug/0066.html

Michael gave a +1 on the mailing list to this proposal

<davy> +1

<tmichel> +1

Silvia: Yves, what is your take on that?

<silvia> http://labs.apache.org/webarch/uri/rfc/rfc3986.html#uri-reference

<tmichel> we could also say that when we say URI we mean URI reference

<silvia> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/ <- title

Yves: if we use the term URI ref, will the people understand what we mean?

Silvia: alternative (also suggested by Thierry) to add a paragraph clarifying our statement

<tmichel> +1 for a preliminary paragraph

Silvia: I'm ok with that, just wanted to point out the issue

<scribe> ACTION: silvia to write such a paragraph in our 2 documents, most likely within the Terminology sections [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-103 - Write such a paragraph in our 2 documents, most likely within the Terminology sections [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2009-09-09].

3.2 Syntax

Proposal for RESOLUTION: we will *NOT* allow editUnits

for specifying the temporal dimension

<silvia> +1

+1

<davy> +1

<Yves> +1

Yves: also to not fall in the trap of the MPEG-21 complexity

RESOLUTION: we will *NOT* allow editUnits for specifying the temporal dimension

Discussion 2: have absolute time specification that contains day and year

Silvia: all done, using the clock scheme, added in the document and wiki

<silvia> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#naming-syntax

Silvia: based on the HTML5/SMIL EBNF syntax

ACTION-49?

<trackbot> ACTION-49 -- Yves Lafon to draft the HTTP-Range syntax for different units (completing all the syntax for the two way handshake) -- due 2009-09-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/49

<silvia> am hoping we can get a reference implementation using flumotion for the clock time spec

Yves: ongoing, but will have things done at the end of this week ... At least for seconds, so people can implement

3.3 UA Server HTTP Communication

The respective role of ? and #: see Silvia's blog post at http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/08/19/jumping-to-time-offsets-in-videos/

Yves: what are the issues ?
... we could mandate the use of ? when there is transcoding happening
... since a new resource is created
... while # will be used in other cases

<Yves> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gregorio-uritemplate-03

Yves: the URI template might be usable now

Silvia: what the URI template will be used for?

Yves: it will be useful in the case of ? ... to say that the server is aware of how to process media sub-resources

Silvia: I wouldn't prescribe that
... I would rather say that URI template is useful in the case of ? but not make it dependent

Yves: it is mostly used in definition, no need for implementation
... I'm not sure this is the right solution, but worth to investigate

Silvia: yes, we might do a URI template for the ?
... actually, I would look into it

<scribe> ACTION: Yves to start a thread on the mailing list to summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and # (? when transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI template for ? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-104 - Start a thread on the mailing list to summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and # (? when transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI template for ? [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-09-09].

ACTION-69?

<trackbot> ACTION-69 -- Conrad Parker to draw a representation of the general structure of a media resource, for streamable formats (H/H' + K + D1 + D2 + D3) -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69

I will ping Conrad what's the status

4. Test Cases

ACTON-93?

ACTION-93?

<trackbot> ACTION-93 -- Michael Hausenblas to revisit the TC and see which are effected by the temporal-optional-comma-decision -- due 2009-07-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/93

still pending while I have closed ACTION-99

Michael tool: http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/

Should we use this tool that Michael hacks ?

Yves: I'm happy if Michael wants to further develop it

Raphael: do we have already feedback to provide to Michael ?

[silence]

Raphael: I'm happy with the tool

<silvia> I think this table needs row numbers

Raphael: I interpret your silence as you would not mind to add new TC and interact with them

Feature proposal: add row numbers in the table

thanks Silvia

<silvia> also, somebody needs to add the other discussed test cases :)

Raphael: yes, we will ask Michael :-)

5. Implementation

Silvia: nice demo, play it at http://new.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/mediafrag.html

<silvia> http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/

Blog post: http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/

Silvia: what I have done is to showcase for the HTML5 WG what the media frag spec could do
... I don't cover all the spec, temporal dimension only and simple way of specifying time
... no error handling
... basic goal is to replicate YouTube functionalities ... but cooler ;-)
... everything implemented in Javascript
... it will become much more complicated if we implement all the schemes we foresee in the spec
... but the proof of concept is more important at this point

Raphael: would you mind to cc the Media Fragments WG if you advertise this demo to the WHAT/HTML5 mailing lists ?

Silvia: no problem

Raphael: perhaps warn the audience that this does not cover the protocol part of the spec, how the bits will be send between the server and the UA
... but on client side, it shows nicely what the media fragments URI spec will enable

Silvia: I have to use a hack for caching / optimizing the media duration and not perform look up all the time
... Mozilla guys are happy to make this feature standard anyway
... this is particular to the ogg format
... can I get approval from the group for advertizing this work to WHAT?

Raphael: absolutely !

<davy> +1

<conrad> +1

Conrad, you're not on the phone, I need to chase you for some actions ... pending and overdue

is there any strong constraint with this hour for you?

ACTION-90?

<trackbot> ACTION-90 -- Davy Van Deursen to provide a pointer to Yves to a lib he can use to slice media files -- due 2009-10-14 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/90

Davy: still pending, it is more complicated than what I thought ...
... there is service, but these are not libraries we can interface

<conrad> raphael, sorry, no strong constraint, i was delayed coming home from work

Davy: we will use our platform, but we need to provide the interface
... for Yves's hacking
... I will write more information on the wiki page when this is done
... should be done by 17/09/2009

Wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment

<silvia> ok

Silvia, could you add your demo on this page?

6. AOB

Is there any other business you would like to discuss?

Conrad, could you please fill http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw asap ?

Raphael: we should think about the structure for the virtual meeting

<Yves> yep

Discussion: ? vs # / implementations / protocol stuff / test cases

Conrad: we need the status of your actions
... and we need to have a telecon on the protocol comparison

when can we have that?

<silvia> how is Action-69? Is it too hard to draw? would it be better to describe?

<conrad> action 69 is not yet done

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 69

<conrad> i have some diagrams close to that ;-)

ACTION-69?

<trackbot> ACTION-69 -- Conrad Parker to draw a representation of the general structure of a media resource, for streamable formats (H/H' + K + D1 + D2 + D3) -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69

Conrad: I have already diagrams close to that

Poll: http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw

it would be great if you could make one of the two time slots

[adjourned]