IRC log of mediafrag on 2009-09-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:56:39 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
11:56:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-irc
11:56:41 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
11:56:41 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #mediafrag
11:56:43 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
11:56:43 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
11:56:44 [trackbot]
Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
11:56:44 [trackbot]
Date: 02 September 2009
11:57:30 [raphael]
Regrets: Erik, Michael
11:57:33 [raphael]
Chair: Raphael
11:57:49 [raphael]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0000.html
11:59:39 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()8:00AM has now started
11:59:46 [Zakim]
+raphael
12:00:19 [raphael]
Present: Raphael, Davy, Silvia, Yves
12:00:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
12:00:55 [tmichel]
tmichel has joined #mediafrag
12:02:05 [Zakim]
+ +329331aaaa
12:02:16 [raphael]
zakim, aaaa is davy
12:02:16 [Zakim]
+davy; got it
12:03:34 [Zakim]
+thierry
12:03:55 [raphael]
Present+ thierry
12:04:03 [Zakim]
+silvia
12:04:11 [tmichel]
zakim, who is here ?
12:04:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see raphael, davy, thierry, silvia
12:04:13 [Zakim]
On IRC I see tmichel, Zakim, RRSAgent, davy, jack, silvia, trackbot, Yves
12:05:28 [raphael]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/
12:06:19 [Zakim]
+Yves
12:08:32 [raphael]
Topic: 1. ADMIN
12:08:41 [raphael]
PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 26 August 2009 telecon
12:08:45 [raphael]
http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html
12:08:46 [silvia]
+1
12:08:47 [davy]
+1
12:08:47 [raphael]
+1
12:08:51 [raphael]
Minutes accepted
12:08:51 [Yves]
+1
12:08:58 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:08:58 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:09:17 [raphael]
Quick poll: http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw
12:09:42 [raphael]
We are still missing answers from Jack and Conrad
12:10:16 [raphael]
... we are likely to meet during these 2 time slots on Thu 17 and Fri 18/09
12:10:50 [raphael]
[silence]
12:11:26 [raphael]
Anyone has a proposal for a virtual blackboard tool we could use ?
12:12:04 [tmichel]
I can book Zakim
12:12:31 [raphael]
ACTION: Thierry to book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from 10:00 till 12:00 CET
12:12:31 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-102 - Book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from 10:00 till 12:00 CET [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-09-09].
12:12:54 [tmichel]
Ok will convert To prper Time
12:12:58 [raphael]
thanks
12:13:11 [raphael]
Yves and I will most likely share an office during the call
12:13:59 [raphael]
Topic: 2. UC and Requirements
12:14:20 [raphael]
ACTION-101?
12:14:20 [trackbot]
ACTION-101 -- Yves Lafon to write a UC describing the use of aspect ratio feature and thus motivating its usage -- due 2009-09-02 -- OPEN
12:14:20 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/101
12:14:40 [raphael]
... pending
12:16:13 [raphael]
Raphael: reviews of our documents will come from the Media Annotations WG (Felix), and TimedText (Philippe)
12:17:17 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:17:17 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:17:27 [raphael]
... Chris from SVG said that they were interested to review it, but I don't know whether they have done something
12:17:36 [raphael]
Yves: I will relaunch TAG early next week
12:17:45 [raphael]
Topic: 3. Specification
12:17:50 [raphael]
3.1: Terminology
12:18:09 [raphael]
Silvia: proposal to replace all occurence of URI by URI Ref, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Aug/0066.html
12:19:15 [raphael]
Michael gave a +1 on the mailing list to this proposal
12:19:15 [davy]
+1
12:19:20 [tmichel]
+1
12:19:38 [raphael]
Silvia: Yves, what is your take on that?
12:20:21 [silvia]
http://labs.apache.org/webarch/uri/rfc/rfc3986.html#uri-reference
12:20:28 [tmichel]
we could also say that when we say URI we mean URI reference
12:21:18 [silvia]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/ <- title
12:21:28 [raphael]
Yves: if we use the term URI ref, will the people understand what we mean?
12:22:24 [raphael]
Silvia: alternative (also suggested by Thierry) to add a paragraph clarifying our statement
12:22:35 [tmichel]
+1 for a preliminary paragraph
12:23:22 [raphael]
Silvia: I'm ok with that, just wanted to point out the issue
12:23:41 [raphael]
ACTION: silvia to write such a paragraph in our 2 documents, most likely within the Terminology sections
12:23:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-103 - Write such a paragraph in our 2 documents, most likely within the Terminology sections [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2009-09-09].
12:23:57 [raphael]
3.2 Syntax
12:24:00 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:24:00 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:24:54 [raphael]
Proposal for RESOLUTION: we will *NOT* allow editUnits
12:24:54 [raphael]
for specifying the temporal dimension
12:25:05 [silvia]
+1
12:25:07 [raphael]
+1
12:25:11 [davy]
+1
12:25:18 [Yves]
+1
12:25:23 [raphael]
Yves: also to not fall in the trap of the MPEG-7 complexity
12:25:36 [davy]
s/MPEG-7/MPEG-21
12:25:43 [raphael]
RESOLUTION: we will *NOT* allow editUnits for specifying the temporal dimension
12:26:36 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:26:36 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:26:51 [raphael]
Discussion 2: have absolute time specification that contains day and year
12:27:12 [raphael]
Silvia: all done, using the clock scheme, added in the document and wiki
12:27:18 [silvia]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#naming-syntax
12:27:27 [raphael]
... based on the HTML5/SMIL EBNF syntax
12:28:00 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:28:00 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:28:06 [raphael]
ACTION-49?
12:28:08 [trackbot]
ACTION-49 -- Yves Lafon to draft the HTTP-Range syntax for different units (completing all the syntax for the two way handshake) -- due 2009-09-02 -- OPEN
12:28:11 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/49
12:28:34 [silvia]
am hoping we can get a reference implementation using flumotion for the clock time spec
12:29:09 [raphael]
Yves: ongoing, but will have things done at the end of this week ... At least for seconds, so people can implement
12:29:22 [raphael]
3.3 UA Server HTTP Communication
12:30:38 [raphael]
The respective role of & and #: see Silvia's blog post at http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/08/19/jumping-to-time-offsets-in-videos/
12:31:01 [raphael]
s/&/?
12:31:09 [raphael]
Yves: what are the issues ?
12:31:21 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:31:21 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:31:29 [raphael]
Yves: we could mandate the use of ? when there is transcoding happening
12:31:36 [raphael]
... since a new resource is created
12:31:45 [raphael]
... while # will be used in other cases
12:32:13 [Yves]
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gregorio-uritemplate-03
12:32:35 [raphael]
... the URI template might be usable now
12:32:56 [raphael]
Silvia: what the URI template will be used for?
12:33:34 [raphael]
Yves: it will be useful in the case of ? ... to say that the server is aware of how to process media sub-resources
12:33:44 [raphael]
Silvia: I wouldn't prescribe that
12:34:05 [raphael]
... I would rather say that URI template is useful in the case of ? but not make it dependent
12:34:18 [raphael]
Yves: it is mostly used in definition, no need for implementation
12:34:42 [raphael]
... I'm not sure this is the right solution, but worth to investigate
12:34:55 [raphael]
Silvia: yes, we might do a URI template for the ?
12:35:28 [raphael]
... actually, I would look into it
12:35:58 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:35:58 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:36:57 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:36:57 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:37:37 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:37:37 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:37:47 [raphael]
ACTION: Yves to start a thread on the mailing list to summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and # (? when transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI template for ?
12:37:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-104 - Start a thread on the mailing list to summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and # (? when transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI template for ? [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-09-09].
12:38:13 [raphael]
ACTION-69?
12:38:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-69 -- Conrad Parker to draw a representation of the general structure of a media resource, for streamable formats (H/H' + K + D1 + D2 + D3) -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN
12:38:13 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69
12:38:25 [raphael]
I will ping Conrad what's the status
12:38:44 [raphael]
Topic: 4. Test Cases
12:38:47 [Zakim]
-thierry
12:39:14 [raphael]
ACTON-93?
12:39:19 [raphael]
ACTION-93?
12:39:19 [trackbot]
ACTION-93 -- Michael Hausenblas to revisit the TC and see which are effected by the temporal-optional-comma-decision -- due 2009-07-29 -- OPEN
12:39:19 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/93
12:39:31 [raphael]
still pending while I have closed ACTION-99
12:39:43 [raphael]
Michael tool: http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/
12:39:56 [Zakim]
+thierry
12:40:09 [raphael]
Should we use this tool that Michael hacks ?
12:40:47 [raphael]
Yves: I'm happy if Michael wants to further develop it
12:40:58 [raphael]
Raphael: do we have already feedback to provide to Michael ?
12:41:01 [raphael]
[silence]
12:41:15 [raphael]
Raphael: I'm happy with the tool
12:41:50 [silvia]
I think this table needs row numbers
12:42:08 [raphael]
... I interpret your silence as you would not mind to add new TC and interact with them
12:42:30 [raphael]
Feature proposal: add row numbers in the table
12:42:34 [raphael]
thanks Slvia
12:42:40 [raphael]
s/Slvia/Silvia
12:42:48 [silvia]
also, somebody needs to add the other discussed test cases :)
12:43:25 [raphael]
Raphael: yes, we will ask Michael :-)
12:43:34 [raphael]
Topic: 5. Implementation
12:43:42 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:43:42 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:43:58 [raphael]
Silvia: nice demo, play it at http://new.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/mediafrag.html
12:44:00 [silvia]
http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/
12:44:04 [raphael]
Blog post: http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/
12:44:33 [raphael]
Silvia: what I have done is to showcase for the HTML5 WG what the media frag spec could do
12:45:02 [raphael]
... I don't cover all the spec, temporal dimension only and simple way of specifying time
12:45:07 [raphael]
... no error handling
12:45:22 [raphael]
... basic goal is to replicate YouTube functionalities ... but cooler ;-)
12:45:32 [raphael]
... everything implemented in Javascript
12:45:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
12:46:07 [raphael]
... it will become much more complicated if we implement all the schemes we foresee in the spec
12:46:23 [raphael]
... but the proof of concept is more important at this point
12:47:00 [raphael]
Raphael: would you mind to cc the Media Fragments WG if you advertise this demo to the WHAT/HTML5 mailing lists ?
12:47:06 [raphael]
Silvia: no problem
12:48:38 [raphael]
Raphael: perhaps warn the audience that this does not cover the protocol part of the spec, how the bits will be send between the server and the UA
12:49:09 [raphael]
... but on client side, it shows nicely what the media fragments URI spec will enable
12:49:34 [raphael]
Silvia: I have to use a hack for caching / optimizing the media duration and not perform look up all the time
12:49:52 [raphael]
... Mozilla guys are happy to make this feature standard anyway
12:50:14 [raphael]
... this is particular to the ogg format
12:50:48 [conrad]
conrad has joined #mediafrag
12:51:00 [raphael]
... can I get approval from the group for advertizing this work to WHAT?
12:51:09 [raphael]
Raphael: absolutely !
12:51:25 [davy]
+1
12:51:30 [conrad]
+1
12:51:57 [raphael]
Conrad, you're not on the phone, I need to chase you for some actions ... pending and overdue
12:52:07 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:52:07 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:52:13 [raphael]
is there any strong constraint with this hour for you?
12:52:38 [raphael]
ACTION-90?
12:52:38 [trackbot]
ACTION-90 -- Davy Van Deursen to provide a pointer to Yves to a lib he can use to slice media files -- due 2009-10-14 -- OPEN
12:52:38 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/90
12:52:58 [raphael]
Davy: still pending, it is more complicated than what I thought ...
12:53:12 [raphael]
... there is service, but these are not libraries we can interface
12:53:28 [conrad]
raphael, sorry, no strong constraint, i was delayed coming home from work
12:54:24 [raphael]
Davy: we will use our platform, but we need to provide the interface
12:54:33 [raphael]
... for Yves's hacking
12:54:53 [raphael]
... I will write more information on the wiki page when this is done
12:55:07 [raphael]
... should be done by 17/09/2009
12:55:31 [raphael]
Wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment
12:55:46 [silvia]
ok
12:55:50 [raphael]
Silvia, could you add your demo on this page?
12:56:15 [raphael]
Topic: 6. AOB
12:56:25 [raphael]
Is there any other business you would like to discuss?
12:57:06 [raphael]
Conrad, could you please fill http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw asap ?
12:57:45 [raphael]
Raphael: we should think about the structure for the virtual meeting
12:57:52 [Yves]
yep
12:58:10 [raphael]
Discussion: ? vs # / implementations / protocol stuff / test cases
12:58:21 [raphael]
Conrad: we need the status of your actions
12:58:39 [raphael]
... and we need to have a telecon on the protocol comparison
12:58:43 [raphael]
when can we have that?
12:58:55 [Zakim]
+conrad
12:58:57 [silvia]
how is Action-69? Is it too hard to draw? would it be better to describe?
12:59:19 [conrad]
action 69 is not yet done
12:59:19 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - 69
12:59:31 [conrad]
i have some diagrams close to that ;-)
12:59:41 [raphael]
ACTION-69?
12:59:41 [trackbot]
ACTION-69 -- Conrad Parker to draw a representation of the general structure of a media resource, for streamable formats (H/H' + K + D1 + D2 + D3) -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN
12:59:41 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69
12:59:56 [raphael]
Conrad: I have already diagrams close to that
13:01:25 [raphael]
Poll: http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw
13:01:36 [raphael]
it would be great if you could make one of the two time slots
13:02:57 [Zakim]
-raphael
13:02:58 [Zakim]
-thierry
13:02:59 [Zakim]
-Yves
13:03:02 [Zakim]
-davy
13:03:03 [raphael]
[adjourned]
13:03:03 [Zakim]
-silvia
13:03:03 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()8:00AM has ended
13:03:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were raphael, +329331aaaa, davy, thierry, silvia, Yves, conrad
13:03:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
13:03:37 [raphael]
Present+ Conrad
13:03:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
13:09:10 [davy]
davy has left #mediafrag
13:12:07 [raphael]
zakim, bye
13:12:07 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mediafrag
13:12:13 [raphael]
RRSAgent, bye
13:12:13 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
13:12:13 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Thierry to book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from 10:00 till 12:00 CET [1]
13:12:13 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-irc#T12-12-31
13:12:13 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: silvia to write such a paragraph in our 2 documents, most likely within the Terminology sections [2]
13:12:13 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-irc#T12-23-41
13:12:13 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Yves to start a thread on the mailing list to summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and # (? when transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI template for ? [3]
13:12:13 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-irc#T12-37-47