See also: IRC log
<csma> agendum+ Admin
<csma> agendum+ Liaisons
<csma> agendum+ Actions review
<csma> agendum+ LC public comments
<csma> agendum+ Next steps (incl. telecon schedule)
<csma> agendum+RIF and XML data
<csma> agendum+ Test cases
<csma> agendum+ AOB
<ChrisW> i'm running late
<csma> Scribe: Stella Mitchell
<csma> scribenick: Stella_Mitchell
<csma> Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie
<StellaMitchell> csma: any agenda ammendments?
<StellaMitchell> csma: will approve minutes from last week at next telecon
<StellaMitchell> csma: minutes of June 23 are missing
<csma> next item
<StellaMitchell> csma: any news from liaisons?
<StellaMitchell> sandro: OWL's implementation report is delayed
<StellaMitchell> sandro: I believe Hassan was the scribe on June 23 - it was a short meeting
<csma> next item
<StellaMitchell> action-896 continued
<AdrianP> done
<StellaMitchell> action-895 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-895 Ask participants of RuleML-2008 which did RIF demos to send comments closed
<StellaMitchell> action-894 ??
<StellaMitchell> action-893, action-892-continued
<StellaMitchell> action-889 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-889 Answer FAQ 4.1 closed
<StellaMitchell> action-888 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-888 Answer FAQ 4.3 closed
<StellaMitchell> action-887 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-887 Answer FAQ 4.2 closed
<StellaMitchell> action-886 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-886 Answer FAQ 4.3 - 4.4 closed
<StellaMitchell> action-883 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-883 Answer FAQ 3.7 closed
<StellaMitchell> csma: faq 3.9, 3.10, 3.11 have not been assigned
<StellaMitchell> ....are there volunteers for these faq sections?
<StellaMitchell> leora: I can do 3.9
<StellaMitchell> ACTION: csma to ask jos and axel to answer 3.10 and 3.11 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-rif-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-897 - Ask jos and axel to answer 3.10 and 3.11 [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-08-04].
<StellaMitchell> ACTION: leora to answer faq 3.9 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-rif-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-898 - Answer faq 3.9 [on Leora Morgenstern - due 2009-08-04].
<StellaMitchell> action-875 continued
<StellaMitchell> action-858 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-858 Announce to KR, ask about AAAI, check commonsense closed
<StellaMitchell> action-857 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-857 Announce to RR, XSB, F-Logic, Flora, Lprolog closed
<StellaMitchell> action-850 continued
<StellaMitchell> action-833 continued
<StellaMitchell> action-891 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-891 Post media-type registration to IETF lists closed
<StellaMitchell> action-890 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-890 Answer FAQ 3.8 closed
<StellaMitchell> action-870 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-870 Contact MOZ closed
<StellaMitchell> action-874 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-874 Contact Guido Governatori. closed
<StellaMitchell> action-859 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-859 Annoucne to swi-prolog closed
<StellaMitchell> action-863 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-863 Contact Jos de Roo closed
<csma> next item
<StellaMitchell> csma: we have had two new public comments since last week
<StellaMitchell> ...one is from ontoprise about ontobroker support of RIF
<StellaMitchell> csma: what constitutes an implementation report?
<StellaMitchell> sandro: I will check into this
<StellaMitchell> harold: can you ask them if I can create a link to advertise ontobroker support?
<StellaMitchell> csma: I will ask
<csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments/2009Jul/0005.html
<sandro> ACTION: sandro to look for a template for implementation reports [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-rif-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-899 - Look for a template for implementation reports [on Sandro Hawke - due 2009-08-04].
<StellaMitchell> csma: the other email to the public list has two fairly minor comments
<StellaMitchell> ...means that he reviewed the specs
<StellaMitchell> ...we need to reply to that email
<StellaMitchell> cw: will start the wiki page to organize the responses to these public comments
<csma> next item
<StellaMitchell> cw: we need evidence for the AC that there is community interest in RIF...public comments are one indication of that, and there are also other ways it can be shown
<StellaMitchell> csma: public comment period was to end at the end of this week...do we want to extend this?
<StellaMitchell> cw: csma, do you expect industry comments on PRD?
<StellaMitchell> ....or implementation commitments?
<StellaMitchell> csma: mark proctor is interested in doing an implementation
<StellaMitchell> ...ctic also interested in doing an implementation
<StellaMitchell> ...ilog/ibm, oracle, adrian-with-tibco
<StellaMitchell> cw: commitment to do an implemention is more powerful than public comments
<StellaMitchell> cw: and what about the academic rules community...is there interest in RIF?
<StellaMitchell> mk: yes, have seen interest. there is some confusion among people about who can send reviews/comments
<StellaMitchell> csma: so, do we have enough of a story to move to the next step?
<StellaMitchell> sandro: we should send a reminder that deadline is approaching
<StellaMitchell> cw: we planned on having 3 weeks to put together CR case
<StellaMitchell> harold: do we need to make it more clear that anyone in the public can comment?
<StellaMitchell> sandro: it is already stated in all documents
<sandro> "We're appreciate a comment from anyone who has taken the time to read the draft"
<StellaMitchell> adrian: I can contact event processing and decision ?? communities
<AdrianP> I will remind the CEP community to send comments
<AdrianP> the CEP community is very interested in rules, reaction rules
<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/CR_Transition_Request
<StellaMitchell> csma: then we prepare our case and send a request to move to CR?
<StellaMitchell> sandro: yes, see above as example
<StellaMitchell> csma: so we are looking at end of August, early Sept to move to CR
<StellaMitchell> csma: ILOG person pointed out to me that UCR doesn't have PRD examples
<StellaMitchell> leora: also, other shortcomings of UCR - it should be redone
<StellaMitchell> csma: that's much more work than that I was suggesting
<LeoraMorgenstern> the problem with UCR is that
<LeoraMorgenstern> (1) the examples that we do have aren't covered by dialects like BLD and PRD
<StellaMitchell> adrian: original goal of UCR was to show how rules can be used
<LeoraMorgenstern> (2) we don't have non-trivial examples of what RIF can be used for.
<StellaMitchell> cw: is anyone willing to work on this?
<StellaMitchell> leora: I can work on the UCR examples
<StellaMitchell> ....could use help from harold and michael about non-trivial applications of bld
<StellaMitchell> cw: one use case supported at the core level is mapping between data sources
<Harold> Another non-trivial use case: Dave's OWL 2 RL rules in RIF.
<LeoraMorgenstern> Thank you, Harold.
<StellaMitchell> csma: I will not be able to attend a telecon until aug 25th or after
<StellaMitchell> sandro: i'll be on vacation aug 11
<StellaMitchell> cw: we should meet within the next 2 weeks to discuss CR
<StellaMitchell> cw: I can do a telecon aug 11
<StellaMitchell> csma: next meeting, aug 11?
<StellaMitchell> sandro: how about next week,?
<StellaMitchell> csma: next meeting is aug 11, cw can attend, sandro maybe, csma maybe
<StellaMitchell> cw: subsequent meeting aug 25th
<StellaMitchell> csma: I updated this document since last week
<StellaMitchell> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/index.php?title=RIF%2BXML_data-schema
<StellaMitchell> csma: I still need to do more work on the xpath/xquery part of the specification
<StellaMitchell> csma: the document is currently not easy to read because it assumes deep familiarity with XDM (xpath/xquery data model)
<StellaMitchell> csma: Dave and Gary have looked over the document - any further comments from them?
<StellaMitchell> dave: basically what I said in my email (link below)
<StellaMitchell> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009Jul/0041.html
<StellaMitchell> sandro: I'm sorry I didn't have a chance to look at this yet. How do you deal with xml element names? just concatenating?
<StellaMitchell> csma: yes
<StellaMitchell> sandro: this may be ugly
<StellaMitchell> sandro: ...because in the xml world, namespace names do not always end with punctuation
<StellaMitchell> dave: in the current proposal, he has 2 versions for each case
<StellaMitchell> ...but needs extra details about the qname
<StellaMitchell> csma: would like to avoid specific syntax for handling xml data source
<StellaMitchell> csma: gary commented that we didn't consider using functions and predicates, but only frames
<StellaMitchell> ...but frames can be written as predicates
<StellaMitchell> gary: I think we need extra hints with the import - I don't think we can automatically detect what will be the best encoding
<StellaMitchell> sandro: another possibility is that we could generate all the mappings that might be useful
<StellaMitchell> csma: yes, I prefer this option
<StellaMitchell> gary: sounds good
<StellaMitchell> dave: what is the argument for multiple mappings?
<StellaMitchell> ...better interoperation if there is only one mapping
<StellaMitchell> gary: ordering will be lost in the frames mapping
<StellaMitchell> gary: different mappings are better for different situations
<AdrianP> a general query construct woul be helpful, not just for integrating XML data, but e.g. SQL queries, SPARQL queries, XQuery/XPath queries, ...
<StellaMitchell> gary: with multiple representations, we may have a problem when translating back to xml
<StellaMitchell> cw: can you update the document by the end of august?
<StellaMitchell> csma: yes
<StellaMitchell> cw: aob?
<ChrisW> ACTION: csma to update with text and examples by end of Aug (XML data document) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-rif-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-900 - Update with text and examples by end of Aug (XML data document) [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-08-04].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/???/implementation report/ Succeeded: s/from/one is from/ Succeeded: s/to respond/to organize the responses/ Succeeded: s/comments?/comments/ Succeeded: s/to CR/to move to CR/ Succeeded: s/part o/ part of/ Succeeded: s/email/email (link below)/ Succeeded: s/back/back to xml/ Found Scribe: Stella Mitchell Found ScribeNick: Stella_Mitchell WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <Stella_Mitchell> ... WARNING: 0 scribe lines found (out of 233 total lines.) Are you sure you specified a correct ScribeNick? Default Present: Leora_Morgenstern, Stella_Mitchell, DaveReynolds, csma, +1.631.833.aaaa, MichaelKifer, Sandro, +1.503.533.aabb, Gary, +49.715.22.aacc, Harold, ChrisW, AdrianP Present: Leora_Morgenstern Stella_Mitchell DaveReynolds csma +1.631.833.aaaa MichaelKifer Sandro +1.503.533.aabb Gary +49.715.22.aacc Harold ChrisW AdrianP Regrets: AxelPolleres Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009Jul/0040.html Got date from IRC log name: 28 Jul 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/07/28-rif-minutes.html People with action items: csma leora sandro[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]