<trackbot> Date: 24 June 2009

<scribe> Scribe: raphael

<scribe> Scribenick: raphael

1. Admin

PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 10 June 2009 telecon

http://www.w3.org/2009/06/10-mediafrag-minutes.html

+1

<davy> +1

<erik> +1

<Gui> +1

Minutes accepted

2. UC & REQUIREMENTS

Yves: will send an email to TAG asap

Raphael: bring this issue to Hypertext CG

<Gui> If we really want feedback, the UC & REQUIREMENTS needs to go to Last Call.

HTML 5 will review the doc ... via Chris Wilson and Sam

close ACTION-83

<trackbot> ACTION-83 Check whether UC & REQUIREMENTS going to be a W3C WG Note or will it go to Last Call ? closed

The doc will be split into 2 documents: one will be WG Note, the other will go for Last Call since it will be part of the spec

Raphael: I will email the group when the others actions are done ... later after the telecon

3. SPECIFICATION

close ACTION-67

<trackbot> ACTION-67 Sync with Jean Pierre to get the edit units spec reference closed

I got the info from Jean Pierre

<scribe> ACTION: Erik to summarize the info from Jean Pierre, and mail it to the group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-84 - Summarize the info from Jean Pierre, and mail it to the group [on Erik Mannens - due 2009-07-01].

Re: the edit units spec

ACTON-49?

ACTION-49?

<trackbot> ACTION-49 -- Yves Lafon to draft the HTTP-Range syntax for different units (completing all the syntax for the two way handshake) -- due 2009-03-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/49

Yves: there is an issue in HTTPBis with how to defined custom ranges
... will be dealt within IETF in our face to face meeting, end of July
... for the general complete syntax, we have to wait
... but I can write an example now

Raphael: I will postpone the action in the tracker

UA Server HTTP Communication

ACTION-63?

<trackbot> ACTION-63 -- Conrad Parker to update the Wiki with his more general approach with precisely the same examples -- due 2009-04-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/63

Several emails on the discussion

Yves: the first example might be the most interesting one

Conrad: I suggest to continue the discussion on the mailing list

<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UserAgentMediaFragmentResolution

UA MF Resolution and Processing

Michael: depends on Raphael's ACTION:-) re: to split the document

Raphael: indeed :-)

Michael: I will draft the section as soon as Raphael release the doc

ACTION-77?

<trackbot> ACTION-77 -- Yves Lafon to investigate what's happened when facing an invalid Media Fragment URI, re step 2 of http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UserAgentMediaFragmentResolution -- due 2009-05-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/77

http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UserAgentMediaFragmentResolution

<mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0048.html

Yves: Optimistic default behavior of a server, it can serve the whole content, since you specified a wrong empty
... in the wild, server tends to return a 416, when the request is out of range

Michael: 416 is my preferred one

<davy> +1 to Michael

<Silvia> +1 to Michael

+1

<mhausenblas> we are talking about http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCasesDiscussion

<erik> +1 to Michael

Proposed resolution: 416 for TC returning EMPTY

<mhausenblas> +1

<davy> +1

<erik> +1

<Silvia> +1 (in case you missed it above)

RESOLUTION: consensus that 416 is the correct response when the TC returns EMPTY

<conrad> +7

<scribe> ACTION: Michael to update resolution page, TC pages with that resolution [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-85 - Update resolution page, TC pages with that resolution [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-07-01].

close ACTION-77

<trackbot> ACTION-77 Investigate what's happened when facing an invalid Media Fragment URI, re step 2 of http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UserAgentMediaFragmentResolution closed

Raphael: providing the following clarification: "invalid URI" meant, URI returning an invalid ranges
... but valid URI

4. TEST CASES

ACTION-81?

<trackbot> ACTION-81 -- Michael Hausenblas to update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list -- due 2009-05-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/81

close ACTION-81

<trackbot> ACTION-81 Update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list closed

<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases

Michael: how should we go further ?

Approval page: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases

Reviewing TC0007

Michael: if one of the segment is empty, then the and of all segments is empty

Yves: this seems logical

<Gui> +1

<davy> +1

<erik> +1

<Silvia> +1

RESOLUTION: TC0007 should return EMPTY (thus 416)

<conrad> i think if one is empty it gets treated as empty; eg 't=' returns ENTIRE, not NULL

<Silvia> so we regard it as an intersection on the different dimensions

yes silvia

<Gui> but we did say : #t=, returns entire on TC00001

conrad, yes also

<conrad> so the intersection of ENTIRE and id=ID0 is id=ID0

<conrad> not NULL

except that "t=" does not exist

<Silvia> I agree - the example needs to be changed

<Gui> intersection is no null ...

<Gui> the example is wrong

<conrad> "t=" is defined in TC0001

<Silvia> TC0007 has t=, just like TC0001

<Gui> then

<Gui> #t=,&id='ID0'

<Gui> is ENTIRE intersects ID0

<Gui> = ID0

The input of TC007 should be: #t=0,0&id='ID0'

for example

<conrad> so perhaps we need tests for both empty intersect and invalid intersect

<Gui> should be changed to #t=0,0&id='ID0' ?

TC0007 is about empty intersect

Conrad: I suggest to have another test case with an invalid intersect, such as 't=', which is invalid

<Gui> +1, we need another TC

Conrad: more precisely: "t=&id='ID0'"

Michael: ok, I will add another TC

for which the result will be NULL

?

<conrad> the "purpose" line for TC0007 should say "invalid" not "empty"

<conrad> or something like that :-)

TC0008: legacy deep link

I make a quick check: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxoh1z6s_Cw#t=20s jump to the 20th sec

but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxoh1z6s_Cw#t=20 doesn't

<Silvia> I know the people at YouTube who implemented it

<Silvia> I think they might update their syntax

<Gui> existing implementations and syntaxes ... should we ask them to update their syntax ?

<conrad> i think we should aim to not break the internet; there could be any random apps out there with javascript parsing # fragments, and if it is not a media fragment then a UA should fall back to the application behaviour

+1 conrad

Silvia: I want to suggest we also consider a syntax where the comma is optional

<conrad> in any case an app like youtube probably overrides the UA's native # behaviour, ie. the page javascript might override MF

Michael: are we going to adopt the google syntax? what about the other players ? not the right way to follow

Silvia: well, there is a good rationale for the comma, the question is not to take the youtube syntax

Raphael: and we do not have the formal syntax that YouTube accepts

Silvia: i'm rather on the usability front, I want to make our scheme simple enough to use
... the comma might unnecessarily complexify the thing

<conrad> +1 Silvia

<davy> +1

<erik> +1

<scribe> ACTION: Raphael to bring the 'comma optional' discussion during next week telecon, in order to measure the price when releasing the syntax [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Raphael

trackbot, status

<Silvia> I suggest Yves write down the ABNF syntax for optional comma

<Silvia> so we can make sure it's not ambiguous

<scribe> ACTION: Raphaël to bring the 'comma optional' discussion during next week telecon, in order to measure the price when releasing the syntax [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-86 - to bring the 'comma optional' discussion during next week telecon, in order to measure the price when releasing the syntax [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-07-01].

<conrad> Silvia: just change ABNF from start,[end] to start[,end]

TC0008 needs a bit more thinking

<mhausenblas> propose to put it http://www.w3.org/2006/03/test-description#onhold

<scribe> ACTION: Michael to add the HTTP status code for all TC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-87 - Add the HTTP status code for all TC [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-07-01].

5. ISSUES

ACTION-76?

<trackbot> ACTION-76 -- Erik Mannens to contact the editors of MPEG-21 Part 17 regarding the registry of their scheme -- due 2009-05-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/76

Erik: I will send them a reminder

<conrad> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/4

ACTION-73?

<trackbot> ACTION-73 -- Conrad Parker to change the phrasing of the issue 4 (just audio/video)? -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/73

Conrad, can you remember the context ?

<conrad> i put a note at the bottom of the issue

Raphael: I remember it came from the last f2f meeting in Barcelona

Silvia: I got some feedback from the OpenVideo conf

<conrad> so one issue is whether to allow anything other than "audio" and "video", then another issue is what to do if there are multiple audio or video tracks

<Gui> wait for feedback on content negotiation from other WGs

<conrad> (can we close 73? the issue seems more complex than action 73 :-)

yes

close ACTION-73

<trackbot> ACTION-73 Change the phrasing of the issue 4 (just audio/video)? closed

<Gui> Silvia: Please let us know

ACTIOn-62?

<trackbot> ACTION-62 -- Yves Lafon to ask the TAG whether transcoding should be forbidden or not when we send a fragment of a resource -- due 2009-04-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/62

Yves ?

-- continue

ACTION-82?

<trackbot> ACTION-82 -- Michael Hausenblas to flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9 -- due 2009-05-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/82

Michael: I haven't started yet

6. AOB

Michael: I send regrets in advance for the next 2 weeks

<Silvia> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/MultimediaAccessibilty

<Gui> Silvia: Great! Thanks

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Barcelina/Barcelona/
Found Scribe: raphael
Inferring ScribeNick: raphael
Found ScribeNick: raphael
Present: Yves Silvia Michael Erik Raphael Conrad Guillaume Davy
Regrets: Jack Thierry
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jun/0019.html
Found Date: 24 Jun 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-mediafrag-minutes.html
People with action items: erik l michael rapha raphael