See also: IRC log
<csma> Scribe: Adrian Paschke
<csma> agendum+ admin
<csma> agendum+ liaisons
<csma> agendum+ public comments
<csma> agendum+ review actions
<csma> agendum+ TF updates
<csma> agendum+ UCR
<csma> agendum+ publication plan
<csma> agendum+ DTB
<csma> agendum+ AOB (pick scribe!)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Nov/att-0125/2008-11-18-rif-minutes.htm
PROPOSED: accept minutes of last weeks telecon
RESOLUTION: accept minutes of last weeks telecon
<josb> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Nov/0122.html
<josb> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Nov/0110.html
<DaveReynolds> Jena does cannonicalization I believe and is supposed to implement XMLLiteral correctly.
<josb> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-concepts/#section-XMLLiteral
<josb> http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-xmlschema-2-20010502/
<DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/errata#rdf-concepts says Ivan is the editor of the errata document.
<scribe> ACTION: sandro to figure process for RDF errata (re: fixing rdf:xmlliteral) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-rif-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-664 - Figure process for RDF errata (re: fixing rdf:xmlliteral) [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-12-02].
<csma> I did not progress on the RAK comment. Give me 'till Friday EOB.
<csma> I can do the closing etc
<csma> yes
<csma> done
<josb> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/IRI_from_IRI
<AxelPolleres> continued
<csma> 592 is continued
<Hassan> ctd ...
<csma> that's a PRD TF action
<Gary> what do we do with a rule: P(?x - ?y) :- P(?x + ?y)
<DaveReynolds> Gary - that rule would be unsafe by the current criteria.
*PROPOSED:* Include in UCR new requirement "Internationalized text: RIF must support internationalized text - that is, text that additionally conveys information in terms of a language tag."
PROPOSED: Include in UCR new requirement "Internationalized text: RIF must support internationalized text - that is, text that additionally conveys information in terms of a language tag."
other requirements: RIF must support inter-dialect interchange
other requirements: RIF must support intra-dialect interchange
other requirements: RIF must support intra-dialect interchange
*PROPOSED:* Include in UCR new requirement "Internationalized text: RIF must support internationalized text - that is, text that additionally conveys information in terms of a language tag."
PROPOSED: Include in UCR new requirement "Internationalized text: RIF must support internationalized text" - that is, text that additionally conveys information in terms of a language tag.
RESOLUTION: Include in UCR new requirement "Internationalized text: RIF must support internationalized text" - that is, text that additionally conveys information in terms of a language tag.
<StellaMitchell> the conclusion of UCR says:
<StellaMitchell> Developing criteria for understanding and managing RIF inter-dialect translations is not within the current phase of RIF working group activity.
<StellaMitchell> the CSF that was removed said: Encouragement of Interoperability: RIF will encourage interoperability, e.g., overlap between dialects and distinguished dialects with maximum overlap.
<sandro> MediaWiki:Sidebar
<scribe> ACTION: sandro to look at CORE formatting problem [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-rif-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-665 - Look at CORE formatting problem [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-12-02].
PROPOSED: * Add equal and
not-equal builtins for string in DTB.
... Add equal and not-equal builtins for string in DTB.
RESOLUTION: Add equal and not-equal builtins for string in DTB.
<josb> 0
Jos abstains
<AxelPolleres> "Editor's Note: The need of separate equality, inequality, less-than, greater-than, less-than-or-equal, greater-than-or-equal predicates for strings is still under discussion, cf. ISSUE-67."
<AxelPolleres> Editor's Note: The need of separate less-than, greater-than, less-than-or-equal, greater-than-or-equal predicates for strings is still under discussion, cf. ISSUE-67.
ISSUE-79: Negative guards
<trackbot> ISSUE-79 Negative guards in DTB - is this another dialect? notes added
<AxelPolleres> As I understand, dropping neg guards is a problem for OWL-RL
<AxelPolleres> Dave?
<josb> we need them for embedding RIF-OWL DLP combinations (sec 8.2.3.2 of SWC) as well
<AxelPolleres> I likely wouldn't implement full equality... without, it is probably not an issue.
<DaveReynolds> I have a preference for keeping them to allow the OWL/RLtranslation to be expressed within Core.
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Disjunctive_Information_from_Negative_Guards_1
<AxelPolleres> I don't see how this could affect core at the moment.
<josb> I can live with either option
ISSUE-80 [12] (Shoudl we extend DTB to include more general builtins)
<Harold> We could have parameterized dialect schemas, including a "DTB schema" with DTB(NG) being one instantiation (NG = Negative Guard).
<Harold> We already have the beginnings of this with the conformance clauses.
<sandro> AxelPolleres, Adrian is scribing off-line because he can't get on IRC.
<sandro> Wouldn't the parameterized versions replace the fixed ones?
<josb> I think the negative version is really asking for trouble
<josb> I think it's better to use a dialect with negation and use that negation
<AxelPolleres> +1 dialect with negation seems to be missing desparately, it could safe all these negative builtins
<AxelPolleres> pred:hasDatatype
<AxelPolleres> hasNotDatatype( ?X ?Y ) has no intended domain
<AxelPolleres> but neither has isNotInteger( ?X )
<AxelPolleres> for safe Externals, it hasNotDatatype doesn't seem to be less or more problematic than the existing ones.
<Harold> Maybe hasNotDatatype should be replaced with a RELATIVE complement, wrt a higher datatype in the type lattice.
<AxelPolleres> Harold, don't understand what you're after.
<StellaMitchell> pathalogical
<scribe> ACTION: jos to come up with problematic case for general type pred [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-rif-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - jos
<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jdebruij2, jderoo)
ISSUE-67 [10] (need string predicates string-less-than, etc.)
<Gary> mild pref for string-less-than, for symmetry with numeric and date
<Michael_Kifer> 0
<AxelPolleres> "<" ">" "!=" ...
<AxelPolleres> "=" is still possibly troublesome for such a surface syntax?
<sandro> paschke@inf.fu-berlin.de
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: ChrisW Found Scribe: Adrian Paschke Default Present: Sandro, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, josb, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, csma, StellaMitchell, Adrian, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, +49.308.387.aaaa, Michael_Kifer, AxelPolleres, Harold Present: Sandro Dave_Reynolds ChrisW josb Hassan_Ait-Kaci csma StellaMitchell Adrian LeoraMorgenstern Gary +49.308.387.aaaa Michael_Kifer AxelPolleres Harold Regrets: ChanghaiKe PaulVincent Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Nov/0165.html Got date from IRC log name: 25 Nov 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-rif-minutes.html People with action items: jos sandro WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]