SVG Working Group Teleconference -- 17 Jul 2008

<trackbot> Date: 17 July 2008

<scribe> Scribe: Andrew Emmons

SVGTextContentElement errata (ISSUE-2008)

ED: It was changed slightly to be more similar to selecet substring
... Not exactly what Hixie was asking for
... We have 3 errata items, you're saying they are done already?

<ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement-characters

CM: First one was adding the UTF-16 code unit language

ED: Looks OK
... I suggest we move it to proposed

DS: No objection

RESOLUTION: Will accept UTF-16 errata item for SVGTextContentElement, moved to proposed

<ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement-getnumberofchars

ED: Next is getNumberOfChars erratum

CM: Was an existing one, took reference out because it is handled by the general paragraph in the previous errata

ED: Ok

CM: Brought it back from proposed for this change

ED: Looks good, any objections?

DS: No

RESOLUTION: Will move getNUmberofChars erratum back to proposed

<ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement_clarifications

CM: I added a bit where it mentions getting half of a pair

ED: Looks ok
... That was the only change you made?

<ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0030.html

CM: Yes

ED: I made other changes before that
... There were comments on this
... Does it clamp or give an exception
... Was changed before to not throw an exception
... But, with the current wording you can get an exception in a given case

DS: I did not find that case compelling

<ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0038.html

<ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0040.html

<ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0041.html

CM: Now, always throwing unless you start invalid and run off the end

ED: Could make a special case for 0 as the number of characters

CM: I can't see it being more consistent one way or another
... Can't think of a good reason whyit would be either way in particular

ED: If you do select substring you really want to know a selection is made, a reason to have exception there
... But getSubString you're really expecting a value back
... I would be more in favor of not throwing an exception, but also do not feel it is that critical, could leave as is
... So, we'll leave this one open for more feedback/thought by the group

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Agenda

<shepazu> oops

<shepazu> Issue: find sane values for getSubStringLength and selectSubString

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2017 - Find sane values for getSubStringLength and selectSubString ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2017/edit .

<scribe> ACTION: CM to move first two SVGTextContentElement errata to proposed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - CM

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. charles, cmccorma)

<scribe> ACTION: Heycam to move first two SVGTextContentElement errata to proposed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2101 - Move first two SVGTextContentElement errata to proposed [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-24].

<ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#mention-live-values

SVGTransformList.consolidate, and clarifications of insertItemBefore and replaceItem

ED: Is an old one
... I made this clarification based on feedback by JS
... Have a test case

<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/ua-tests/insertItemBefore.svg

ED: insertItemBefore has the same issue

<ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/test-cases/consolidate.svg

ED: Second change,consolidate returns a new object
... Any problems with moving this to proposed?

RESOLUTION: Will move SVGTransformList.consolidate, and clarifications of insertItemBefore and replaceItem errata to proposed

<ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix

Clarify liveness of setMatrix and createSVGTransformFromMatrix methods

ED: Are these live or not?
... Partially related to the previous one
... DOes this look ok?
... Proposed resolution is to just copy the values, do not adopt SVGMatrix object
... Robert seemed OK with this change
... All implementations I tested behaved this way

CM: SOunds good

RESOLUTION: Move Clarify liveness of setMatrix and createSVGTransformFromMatrix methods errata to proposed

Timeline for 1.1SE publication/review (and move of errata into public cvs)

ED: I want to get the spec out that incorporates all of the errata - to have it out of they way to move on to other things

DS: Sounds like a good plan
... What timeline do you think is reasonable

ED: Anthony has done part of this work already, wanted to get status

<ed_> ACTION: Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and mention-live-values to proposed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Move

<ed_> ACTION: ed to Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and mention-live-values to proposed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2102 - Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and mention-live-values to proposed [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-07-24].

DS: Perhaps move to Tuesday?
... Would be nice for SVG Open

SVG in HTML feedback

ED: We have some feedback already
... I would say it is fairly positive

DS: Fairly

ED: Are comments, some parts not perfect, some wrong, etc
... I have made some update to the proposal

<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html

ED: This was raised in the bug tracker for HTML WG
... Not sure if there is group discussion yet

DS: They do not typically have discussions at this level
... Usually not low level stuff
... My concern is that - either no discussion happens and Hixie can do what he wants or,
... ( done in a way that is not in the spirit of the proposal )
... Or, delays and does nothing and people implement towards that
... Which has happened already

AE: Which is why we watned it out of an editors draft in the first place

DS: We need to be pro-active to make sure it is handled in a timely fashion so that the final proposal acceptable by the HTML WG is implemented, not the commented out previous proposal

<shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0197.html

DS: It is interesting - an e-mail by Chris Wilson regarding this

<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html

ED: If we can have a look at the change log for the proposal

<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.11&r2=1.12&f=h

ED: One comment from JS, I now defined SVG previx on SVG root element

<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.12&r2=1.13&f=h

ED: Next is feedback from implementer of previous proposal
... GOod feedback
... Took some of his comments and incorperated them into the proposal

<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.13&r2=1.14&f=h

<scribe> ACTION: Erik to e-mail specific feedback responses and also to e-mail new updated proposal to www and html lists, given links to live doc and diff [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2103 - E-mail specific feedback responses and also to e-mail new updated proposal to www and html lists, given links to live doc and diff [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-07-24].

<scribe> ACTION: Doug to nag HTML WG about proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2104 - Nag HTML WG about proposal [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-07-24].

Testsuite

ED: Saw a few tests created, good

<ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0046.html

ED: I went through scripting coverage a bit
... Added 1 test for listener element
... Testing that no special handling of listener element
... I will continue making tests in this area
... AE, you added a few?

AE: Yes, added a few progress event tests and a timer test. Will now work on runtime sync tests

DS: I added a draft of mine in CVS

CM: I added some SVGGlobal tests
... binaryToString one needs close attention
... ParseXML Batik's implementation is simple, matches what ASV used to do
... Tests tricky XML 1.1 stuff as well

<heycam> http://www.w3.org/mid/20080717004454.GA10624@arc.mcc.id.au

AE: Your suggestion sounds reasonable

<scribe> ACTION: Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Update

<scribe> ACTION: Cameron Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2105 - Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-24].

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage

<shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-220-t.svg and http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-230-t.svg

DS: One of my tests - I would like to discuss
... CM had written a test for textEvent

<shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-207-t.svg

DS: I made 220 and 230 to fill in the gaps
... WIth this, press SHIFT key, claims it passes but not quite correct
... textInput not just keyboard - voice, clipboard could use text
... keyboard is different

CM: I'd say this is a bug in Batik

DS: We should specify that it is not a keyboard thing
... Should only say it is character values
... How would you test for that?
... perhaps check all range of characters

CM: Tough thing to test, yes

DS: Good enough as is for a positive test, not a good negative test

CM: Not sure it is possible to test an event is not sent if no text is available

AE: Could update the pass criteria

CM: Yes

DS: Yes
... Add a second pass criteria

<ed_> DOMCharacterDataModified

<ed_> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-MutationEvent

DS: I should point out what the relationship is

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

17 Jul 2008

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