RDF-in-XHTML TF

Action Review

ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Manu to reach out to Slashdot and attempt to get RDFa integrated into Slashdot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [DONE]

Manu: I've been talking with Jamie McCarthy and he said he'd be more than happy to accept a patch.

ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

Shane: operator only notices RDFa in a page if one of our new attributes is used in the page. This is a bug.

Manu: I believe this implementation is Elias' code
... may be a month or two behind the spec

Shane: perhaps they decided that this was a clever way to infer an announcement

ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: [DONE] Ralph confirm whether LGPL is ok with W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

Ralph: LGPL is OK for the XSLT, particularly since it's non-normative

Tools for RDFa authors

Manu: we've received some criticism that we haven't provided enough teaching tools
... we could create more wiki examples

Shane: to some extent it's about design patterns
... so one way to teach the technology is to show lots of best practices design patterns

Shane: if you're a microformat user and want to transition to RDFa, what would you need to do?
... these are two different audiences and we may need to address them both
... might antagonize some, however

Mark: opinions can evolve over the years
... we've offered an outreached hand to show how microformats can use parts of RDFa
... there's lots of momentum now [for RDFa]
... I'd suggest making sure we've covered all the non-microformat examples first
... e.g. ones where there is no vocabulary

Manu: yes, there's some basic examples we don't yet have in the wiki
... these are things people tend to mark-up often
... effectively this is FOAF, vEvent; people+places+event
... chemistry might be interesting; depends on our goals
... definitely do chemistry if our goal is to help people who can't currently use microformats
... other examples are higher priority if our goal is to address large numbers of users

Mark: geolocation also nice and simple

<ShaneM> GEO location is dead easy, fwiw.

Shane: Dan Brickley's geolocation vocabulary "just works"

<ShaneM> There are some existing vocabularies that just work.... let's use them in our examples

Shane: the cool thing is that we didn't have to do anything special in RDFa; the RDF vocabulary just worked

Manu: can we pick 5 or six to work on for the wiki and each pick one?

<Steven> I did Vevent already

Manu: I'll take haudio plus one other, perhaps foaf or vevent

<Steven> Happy to expand

Mark: I'll take foaf

ACTION: Manu write haudio examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

ACTION: Steven write vevent examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

<markbirbeck> first-steps-in-rdfa-creating-foaf

ACTION: Shane write geolocation examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

Shane: "the wiki" means which wiki?

Manu: rdfa.info/wiki

<ShaneM> http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Wiki

Manu: the short form we prefer to cite is http://rdfa.info/wiki
... go to Tutorials; add examples there

Shane: I don't seem to have edit access

Manu: I'll check the permissions

ACTION: Manu check edit permissions on rdfa.info/wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

Shane: there is an hcard example already, but how about vcard ?

Mark: superceded by foaf?

Manu: some (large?) overlap but there are differences

Mark: but foaf has deployment and vcard really doesn't

Shane: how about RSS?

<Steven> +1 to RSS

<Steven> +100 to RSS in fact

Mark: SearchMonkey has an RSS+RDFa mode

ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

<ShaneM> FWIW I tried to do some RSS annotation in this page: /MarkUp/Drafts/

Manu: next can think about some javascript tools to generate the markup for some of these
... would be nice to have a unified architecture to create these wizards
... is there something already in existence we could use for this?

Mark: yes, we have an ajax library that would be suitable

Manu: extensible to other formats?

Mark: yes
... new version no longer requires a browser plug-in
... might be ready within the next month

ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

Manu: anything we want to work with MikeK on operator?

Shane: he's focusing right now on changing the way operators are invoked
... I'd like to see a way to map in well-known handlers for RDF vocabularies
... unfortunately they don't currently detect all RDFa

Manu: Mike has been very open to accepting patches
... he'd really like someone to collaborate with him
... anyone have any spare cycles to work with him?

Mark: my plan is to finish what I've been working on and document it
... once it's working, I will throw it open for discussion
... I have formats for jason, for sparql, ...
... I'd be happy to talk with Mike after I have this stable and working

Manu: the demos you did, Mark, in your Google talk would make wonderful 5-minute snips
... to help people 'get' RDFa and why it's so useful

Steven: Ben had some demos about adding RDFa to digg and others
... at least, I heard that he did

Mark: may be a demo that I did

<markbirbeck> http://code.google.com/p/ubiquity-rdfa/wiki/TutorialIntroduction

Manu: my suggestion is several 5-minute screencasts

<msporny> Manu: to create screencasts, I use xvidcap + Blender + audacity

<Steven> +1

<Steven> Tidy for µf

Manu: what do you think about Ben's idea to create a web service that accepts an HTML page containing microformat data and outputting an RDFa formatted page?

Ralph µfTidy :)

Shane: we only define RDFa in the context of XHTML
... most µf users are using HTML, not XHTML
... tidy does an ok job of trying really hard to fix HTML, but it can break it
... [unfortunately] there's a perception out there that XHTML isn't sufficiently portable

Mark: I give priority to getting RDFa into drupal, flickr, upcoming.org, etc.

Manu: I agree with Mark. Don't want to reignite a µf vs. RDFa war
... let's focus on getting people to use RDFa rather than converting people who are using uf

Shane: one way to get a bigger win is to approach the tool and environment maintainers
... let's help them
... operator is a priority for me because it enables the use of RDFa
... getting browsers to do something with RDF[a] will make RDF[a] truly useful

Steven: travel sites can offer a link to book a hotel and earn money
... if someone books a flight or a hotel by following a link in a browser
... RDFa provides a model for earning money this way

Manu: how about the MSIE folk?

Shane: MSIE doesn't really support XHTML yet
... however, it would not take very long to define an HTML profile for RDFa

Steven: there's no reason why browsers couldn't recognize @xmlns: even if they think the document is HTML
... it's just a token
... we don't really require namespace processing in the DOM
... the current javascript stuff is all working on the DOM already

Shane: @lang vs. @xml:lang

Mark: yeah, that's a tricky one
... MSIE actually disallows checking for @xml:lang, though it does allow other @xml:* attributes

[adjourned]