IRC log of rdfa on 2008-06-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:54:56 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rdfa

14:54:56 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc

14:55:01 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #rdfa

14:55:06 [Ralph]

Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF

14:55:11 [Ralph]

zakim, this will be rdfa

14:55:13 [Zakim]

ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

14:55:24 [Ralph]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Jun/0134.html

14:55:39 [Ralph]

Regrets: Ben, Michael

14:57:34 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-rdfa-minutes previous 2007-06-19

14:59:24 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

14:59:26 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

14:59:33 [msporny]

zakim, I am IPcaller

14:59:33 [Zakim]

ok, msporny, I now associate you with [IPcaller]

14:59:49 [Zakim]

+Ralph

15:00:37 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller.a]

15:00:37 [Zakim]

-[IPcaller.a]

15:00:37 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller.a]

15:00:48 [ShaneM]

zakim, IPcaller.a is ShaneM

15:00:48 [Zakim]

+ShaneM; got it

15:00:57 [markbirbeck]

markbirbeck has joined #rdfa

15:01:17 [markbirbeck]

zakim, code?

15:01:17 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

15:01:27 [markbirbeck]

zakim, who is here?

15:01:28 [Zakim]

On the phone I see [IPcaller], Ralph, ShaneM

15:01:29 [Zakim]

On IRC I see markbirbeck, Zakim, RRSAgent, Ralph, msporny, myakura, ShaneM

15:01:43 [Ralph]

zakim, [ipcaller] is Manu

15:01:49 [Zakim]

+Manu; got it

15:02:30 [Zakim]

+??P55

15:02:33 [markbirbeck]

zakim, i am ?

15:02:33 [Zakim]

+markbirbeck; got it

15:02:57 [Ralph]

Chair: Manu

15:03:00 [Ralph]

Scribe: Ralph

15:03:10 [Ralph]

ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

15:03:12 [Ralph]

-- continues

15:03:24 [Ralph]

ACTION: Manu to reach out to Slashdot and attempt to get RDFa integrated into Slashdot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

15:03:57 [Ralph]

-- done

15:03:57 [Ralph]

Manu: I've been talking with @@ and he said he'd be more than happy to accept a patch.

15:04:11 [Ralph]

ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot

15:04:21 [msporny]

Jamie McCarthy

15:04:30 [Ralph]

s/@@/Jamie McCarthy/

15:05:08 [Ralph]

Shane: operator only notices RDFa in a page if one of our new attributes is used in the page. This is a bug.

15:05:25 [Ralph]

Manu: I believe this implementation is Elias' code

15:05:39 [Ralph]

... may be a month or two behind the spec

15:06:08 [Ralph]

Shane: perhaps they decided that this was a clever way to infer an announcement

15:06:16 [Ralph]

ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

15:06:19 [Ralph]

-- continues

15:06:26 [Ralph]

[DONE] ACTION: Ralph confirm whether LGPL is ok with W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

15:06:42 [Ralph]

Ralph: LGPL is OK for the XSLT, particularly since it's non-normative

15:07:00 [Ralph]

Topic: Tools for RDFa authors

15:07:15 [Ralph]

Manu: we've received some criticism that we haven't provided enough teaching tools

15:07:21 [Ralph]

... we could create more wiki examples

15:07:37 [Ralph]

Shane: to some extent it's about design patterns

15:07:54 [Ralph]

... so one way to teach the technology is to show lots of best practices design patterns

15:08:01 [markbirbeck]

you keep cutting out Shane

15:08:21 [Ralph]

Shane: if you're a microformat user and want to transition to RDFa, what would you need to do?

15:08:32 [Ralph]

... these are two different audiences and we may need to address them both

15:08:44 [markbirbeck]

q+

15:09:02 [Ralph]

... might antagonize some, however

15:09:40 [Ralph]

Mark: opinions can evolve over the years

15:10:16 [Ralph]

... we've offered an outreached hand to show how microformats can use parts of RDFa

15:10:41 [Ralph]

... there's lots of momentum now [for RDFa]

15:11:51 [Ralph]

... I'd suggest making sure we've covered all the non-microformat examples first

15:11:59 [Ralph]

... e.g. ones where there is no vocabulary

15:12:03 [Steven]

Steven has joined #rdfa

15:12:13 [Steven]

zakim, dial steven-617

15:12:20 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; the call is being made

15:12:21 [ShaneM]

q+ about things that have RDF basis already

15:12:22 [Zakim]

+Steven

15:12:27 [Ralph]

Manu: yes, there's some basic examples we don't yet have in the wiki

15:12:41 [Ralph]

... these are things people tend to mark-up often

15:13:03 [Ralph]

... effectively this is FOAF, vEvent; people+places+event

15:13:19 [Ralph]

... chemistry might be interesting; depends on our goals

15:13:41 [Ralph]

... definitely do chemistry if our goal is to help people who can't currently use microformats

15:14:11 [Ralph]

... other examples are higher priority if our goal is to address large numbers of users

15:14:24 [Ralph]

Mark: geolocation also nice and simple

15:14:25 [ShaneM]

GEO location is dead easy, fwiw.

15:15:09 [Steven]

rrsagent, here?

15:15:09 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-15-09

15:15:15 [Ralph]

Shane: Dan Brickley's geolocation vocabulary "just works"

15:15:27 [Steven]

rrsagent, make log public

15:15:48 [ShaneM]

There are some existing vocabularies that just work.... let's use them in our examples

15:15:48 [Ralph]

Shane: the cool thing is that we didn't have to do anything in RDFa; the RDF vocabulary just worked

15:16:05 [Ralph]

s/anything/anything special/

15:16:21 [Ralph]

Manu: can we pick 5 or six to work on for the wiki and each pick one?

15:16:29 [Steven]

I did Vevent already

15:16:35 [Ralph]

... I'll take haudio plus one other, perhaps foaf or vevent

15:16:36 [Steven]

Happy to expand

15:16:38 [Ralph]

Mark: I'll take foaf

15:17:12 [Ralph]

ACTION: Manu write haudio examples for wiki

15:17:19 [Ralph]

ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki

15:17:27 [Ralph]

ACTION: Steven write vevent examples for wiki

15:17:38 [markbirbeck]

http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2008/02/first-steps-in-rdfa-creating-foaf.html

15:17:40 [Ralph]

ACTION: Shane write geolocation examples for wiki

15:17:53 [Ralph]

Shane: "the wiki" means which wiki?

15:17:57 [Ralph]

Manu: rdfa.info/wiki

15:18:17 [ShaneM]

http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Wiki

15:19:05 [Ralph]

Manu: the short form we prefer to cite is http://rdfa.info/wiki

15:19:19 [Ralph]

... go to Tutorials; add examples there

15:19:39 [Ralph]

Shane: I don't seem to have edit access

15:19:44 [Ralph]

Manu: I'll check the permissions

15:19:59 [Ralph]

ACTION: Manu check edit permissions on rdfa.info/wiki

15:20:54 [Ralph]

Shane: there is an hcard example already, but how about vcard ?

15:21:26 [Ralph]

Mark: superceded by foaf?

15:21:38 [Ralph]

Manu: some (large?) overlap but there are differences

15:21:49 [Ralph]

Mark: but foaf has deployment and vcard really doesn't

15:22:01 [Ralph]

Shane: how about RSS?

15:22:08 [Steven]

+1 to RSS

15:22:15 [Steven]

+100 to RSS in fact

15:22:20 [Ralph]

Mark: SearchMonkey has an RSS+RDFa mode

15:22:40 [Ralph]

ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa

15:22:57 [ShaneM]

FWIW I tried to do some RSS annotation in this page: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/

15:23:24 [Ralph]

Manu: next can think about some javascript tools to generate the markup for some of these

15:23:39 [Ralph]

... would be nice to have a unified architecture to create these wizards

15:24:08 [Ralph]

... is there something already in existence we could use for this?

15:24:26 [Ralph]

Mark: yes, we have an ajax library that would be suitable

15:24:48 [Ralph]

Manu: extensible to other formats?

15:24:50 [Ralph]

Mark: yes

15:25:19 [Ralph]

... new version no longer requires a browser plug-in

15:25:31 [Ralph]

... might be ready within the next month

15:25:53 [Ralph]

ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning

15:27:47 [Ralph]

Manu: anything we want to work with MikeK on operator?

15:28:04 [Ralph]

Shane: he's focusing right now on changing the way operators are invoked

15:28:30 [Ralph]

... I'd like to see a way to map in well-known handlers for RDF vocabularies

15:28:44 [Ralph]

... unfortunately they don't currently detect all RDFa

15:29:12 [Ralph]

Manu: Mike has been very open to accepting patches

15:29:21 [Ralph]

... he'd really like someone to collaborate with him

15:30:25 [Ralph]

... anyone have any spare cycles to work with him?

15:31:34 [Ralph]

Mark: my plan is to finish what I've been working on and document it

15:31:56 [Ralph]

... once it's working, I will throw it open for discussion

15:32:15 [Ralph]

... I have formats for jason, for sparql, ...

15:32:45 [Ralph]

... I'd be happy to talk with Mike after I have this stable and working

15:33:31 [Ralph]

Manu: the demos you did, Mark, in your Google talk would make wonderful 5-minute snips

15:33:42 [Ralph]

... to help people 'get' RDFa and why it's so useful

15:33:57 [Ralph]

Steven: Ben had some demos about adding RDFa to digg and others

15:34:16 [Ralph]

... at least, I heard that he did

15:34:44 [Ralph]

Mark: may be a demo that I did

15:34:45 [markbirbeck]

http://code.google.com/p/ubiquity-rdfa/wiki/TutorialIntroduction

15:36:16 [Ralph]

Manu: my suggestion is several 5-minute screencasts

15:37:54 [msporny]

Shane: xvidcap + Blender + audacity

15:38:33 [Ralph]

s/Shane:/Manu: to create screencasts, I use/

15:39:03 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

15:39:09 [Steven]

+1

15:39:48 [Steven]

Tidy for µf

15:39:57 [Ralph]

Manu: what do you think about Ben's idea to create a web service that accepts an HTML page containing microformat data and outputting an RDFa formatted page?

15:40:05 [Ralph]

ufTidy :)

15:40:33 [Ralph]

Shane: we only define RDFa in the context of XHTML

15:40:46 [Ralph]

... most uf users are using HTML, not XHTML

15:41:03 [Ralph]

... tidy does an ok job of trying really hard to fix HTML, but it can break it

15:41:53 [Ralph]

... [unfortunately] there's a perception out there that XHTML isn't sufficiently portable

15:42:23 [Ralph]

Mark: I give priority to getting RDFa into drupal, flickr, upcoming.org, etc.

15:43:12 [Ralph]

Manu: I agree with Mark. Don't want to reignite a uf vs. RDFa war

15:43:46 [Ralph]

... let's focus on getting people to use RDFa rather than converting people who are using uf

15:44:07 [Ralph]

Shane: one way to get a bigger win is to approach the tool and environment maintainers

15:44:19 [Ralph]

... let's help them

15:44:33 [Ralph]

... operator is a priority for me because it enables the _use_ of RDFa

15:45:10 [Ralph]

... getting _browsers_ to do something with RDF[a] will make RDF[a] truly useful

15:45:26 [Ralph]

Steven: travel sites can offer a link to book a hotel and earn money

15:45:43 [Ralph]

... if someone books a flight or a hotel by following a link in a browser

15:45:59 [Ralph]

... RDFa provides a model for earning money this way

15:49:06 [Ralph]

Manu: how about the MSIE folk?

15:49:21 [Ralph]

Shane: MSIE doesn't really support XHTML yet

15:50:22 [Ralph]

... however, it would not take very long to define an HTML profile for RDFa

15:50:57 [Ralph]

Steven: there's no reason why browsers couldn't recognize @xmlns: even if they think the document is HTML

15:51:02 [Ralph]

... it's just a token

15:51:19 [Ralph]

... we don't really require namespace processing in the DOM

15:51:30 [Ralph]

... the current javascript stuff is all working on the DOM already

15:52:08 [Ralph]

Shane: @lang vs. @xml:lang

15:52:13 [Ralph]

Mark: yeah, that's a tricky one

15:52:40 [Ralph]

... MSIE actually disallows checking for @xml:lang, though it does allow other @xml:* attributes

15:55:28 [Ralph]

[adjourned]

15:55:42 [Zakim]

-Ralph

15:55:45 [Zakim]

-Steven

15:55:46 [Zakim]

-ShaneM

15:55:48 [Zakim]

-Manu

15:55:48 [Zakim]

-markbirbeck

15:55:48 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

15:55:49 [Zakim]

Attendees were Ralph, ShaneM, Manu, markbirbeck, Steven

15:55:54 [Ralph]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

15:55:54 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

15:55:55 [Ralph]

zakim, bye

15:55:55 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #rdfa

15:56:26 [Ralph]

rrsagent, bye

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-actions.rdf :

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [1]

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-03-10

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu to reach out to Slashdot and attempt to get RDFa integrated into Slashdot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [2]

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-03-24

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [3]

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-04-11

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [4]

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-06-16

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu write haudio examples for wiki [5]

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-17-12

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [6]

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-17-19

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Steven write vevent examples for wiki [7]

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-17-27

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Shane write geolocation examples for wiki [8]

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-17-40

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu check edit permissions on rdfa.info/wiki [9]

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-19-59

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [10]

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-22-40

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [11]

15:56:26 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-25-53

15:56:36 [msporny]

Thanks for scribing yet again, Ralph! :)