Edit comment LC-509 for Accessibility Guidelines Working Group

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Comment LC-509

Comment Shortname:

Commenter: Vincent Eldefors <tartareandesire@yahoo.com> on behalf of Editor, web programmer

Message-id:

Section of the document concerned:

[Free text description]Document as a wholeIntroduction Related Documents Authoring tools The Role of User Agents The Four Principles of Accessibility Important New Terms Used in WCAG 2.0 Conformance Technology assumptions and the "baseline" Conformance levels and the baseline Conformance claims Content that conforms to WCAG 1.0 How to refer to WCAG 2.0 from other documents Guideline 1.1 Success Criterion 1.1.1 Guideline 1.2 Success Criterion 1.2.1 Success Criterion 1.2.2 Success Criterion 1.2.3 Success Criterion 1.2.4 Success Criterion 1.2.5 Success Criterion 1.2.6 Success Criterion 1.2.7 Guideline 1.3 Success Criterion 1.3.1 Success Criterion 1.3.2 Success Criterion 1.3.3 Success Criterion 1.3.4 Success Criterion 1.3.5 Guideline 1.4 Success Criterion 1.4.1 Success Criterion 1.4.2 Success Criterion 1.4.3 Success Criterion 1.4.4 Guideline 2.1 Success Criterion 2.1.1 Success Criterion 2.1.2 Guideline 2.2 Success Criterion 2.2.1 Success Criterion 2.2.2 Success Criterion 2.2.3 Success Criterion 2.2.4 Success Criterion 2.2.5 Success Criterion 2.2.6 Guideline 2.3 Success Criterion 2.3.1 Success Criterion 2.3.2 Guideline 2.4 Success Criterion 2.4.1 Success Criterion 2.4.2 Success Criterion 2.4.3 Success Criterion 2.4.4 Success Criterion 2.4.5 Success Criterion 2.4.6 Success Criterion 2.4.7 Success Criterion 2.4.8 Guideline 2.5 Success Criterion 2.5.1 Success Criterion 2.5.2 Success Criterion 2.5.3 Success Criterion 2.5.4 Guideline 3.1 Success Criterion 3.1.1 Success Criterion 3.1.2 Success Criterion 3.1.3 Success Criterion 3.1.4 Success Criterion 3.1.5 Success Criterion 3.1.6 Guideline 3.2 Success Criterion 3.2.1 Success Criterion 3.2.2 Success Criterion 3.2.3 Success Criterion 3.2.4 Success Criterion 3.2.5 Guideline 4.1 Success Criterion 4.1.1 Success Criterion 4.1.2 Guideline 4.2 Success Criterion 4.2.1 Success Criterion 4.2.2 Success Criterion 4.2.3 Success Criterion 4.2.4 Appendix A: Glossary Appendix B: Checklist Appendix C: Acknowledgements Appendix D: Comparison of WCAG 1.0 checkpoints to WCAG 2.0 Appendix E: References
or

Refinement of the section concerned:

Status:

open proposal pending resolved_yes resolved_no resolved_partial other assigned to Nobody Abma, Jake Abou-Zahra, Shadi Allan, Jim Auclair, Christopher Avila, Jonathan Babinszki, Tom Bailey, Bruce Bernard, Renaldo Bernier, Alex Blake, Matthew Boudreau, Denis Brewer, Judy Butler, Shari Campbell, Alastair Carlson, Laura Chakravarthula, Srinivasu Cirrincione, Pietro Conway, Vivienne Cooper, Michael Crutchfield, Elizabeth Deltour, Romain Dick, Wayne Ding, Chaohai Dirks, Kim Dixit, Shwetank Draffan, E.A. Duggin, Alistair Eggert, Eric Elledge, Michael Faulkner, Steve Ferraz, Reinaldo Fiers, Wilco Fischer, Detlev Foliot, John Garrish, Matt Garrison, Alistair Gower, Michael Guarino Reid, Loretta Hakkinen, Markku Haritos-Shea, Katie Henry, Shawn Hoffmann, Thomas Horton, Sarah Isager, Kasper Jensen, Tobias Christian Johansson, Stefan Johlic, Marc Johnson, Rick Jones, Crystal Joys Andersen, Wilhelm Kapoor, Shilpi Keim, Oliver Kirkpatrick, Andrew Kirkwood, John Kiss, Jason Kraft, Maureen Ku, JaEun Kurapati, Sujasree Lauke, Patrick Lauriat, Shawn Lee, Steve Lemon, Gez Li, Alex Li, Kepeng Li, Liangcheng Loiselle, Chris Lowney, Greg Lui, Edwina Lund, Adam Ma, Jia MacDonald, David Mace, Amanda Manser, Erich Martin, Debra McCormack, Scott McMeeking, Chris McSorley, Jan Milliken, Neil Montgomery, Rachael Mueller, Mary Jo nicole, windmann Niemann, Gundula Nurthen, James O Connor, Joshue Oh, Jeong-Hun Panchang, Sailesh Pandhi, Charu Pasi, Aparna Patch, Kimberly Philipp, Melanie Pluke, Mike Pouncey, Ian Repsher, Stephen Rochford, John Runyan, Marla Savva, Andreas Sawczyn, Steve Schnabel, Stefan Seeman-Kestenbaum, Lisa Sims, Glenda Singh, Avneesh Skotkjerra, Stein Erik Sloan, David Smith, Alan Smith, Jim Solomon, Adam Spellman, Jeanne F Strobbe, Christophe Suprock, Greg Swallow, David Thompson, Kenneth Thyme, Anne Ueki, Makoto Vaishnav, Jatin Vanderheiden, Gregg Venkata, Manoj Wahlbin, Kathleen Wang, Can WANG, WEI White, Jason Zelmanowicz, Erica Zerner, Adam Zhang, Mengni

Type: substantive editorial typo question general comment undefined

Resolution status:

Response drafted Resolution implemented Reply sent to commenter

Response status:

No response from Commenter yet Commenter approved disposition Commenter objected to disposition
Commenter's response (URI):

Comment:

Part of Item:
Comment Type: GE
Comment (Including rationale for any proposed change):

I think you should make a VERY clear statement regarding the recommended use of CSS methods (DIVs and such) over tables when it comes to page layouts. There are many discussions over this matter....

Proposed Change:

Related issues: (space separated ids)

WG Notes: [TEAMC] Team C recommends not-accepting this comment with the following response: <proposed response> Layout tables are not prohibited by WCAG 2.0 because they are now well supported by assistive technologies. But the techniques document does contain 2 failure techniques for incorrect ways of using layout tables: * F46: Failure of SC 1.3.1 due to using th elements, caption elements, or non-empty summary attributes in layout tables. It should be noted that this technique also includes text in the last paragraph of the description that indicates a preference for the use of CSS for visual formatting instead of layout tables http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20060427/Overview.html#F46 * F49: Failure of SC 1.3.3 due to changing the meaning of content by positioning information with HTML layout tables. F49: Failure of SC 1.3.3 due to changing the meaning of content by positioning information with HTML layout tables http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20060427/Overview.html#F49 There is also a CSS technique called "Positioning content based on structural markup" (www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20060427/Overview.html#C6). </proposed response> 01 June 2006 Call: resolution: close 509 accept the comment, we've added an advisory technique to 1.3 "Use CSS rather than Tables for page layout" and associate it with related techniques... <scribe> ACTION: David to research links to and from advisory technique "use css rather than tables for layout, and to research with Christophe possible techniques regarding nested tables for layout [recorded in http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2006/06/01-wai-wcag-minutes#action01] 1.) DONE add an advisory technique to 1.3.1 titled, "Using CSS rather than tables for page layout" 2.) David to research links to and from advisory technique

Resolution: While WCAG 2.0 does not forbid the use of layout tables, the working group does discourage their use. The working group does not provide techniques about how to use layout tables, but has added an advisory technique to SC 1.3.1 titled, "Using CSS rather than tables for page layout" to describe this issue in greater detail.

(Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)