Edit comment LC-1442 for Accessibility Guidelines Working Group

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Comment LC-1442

Comment Shortname:

Commenter: David MacDonald <Befree@magma.ca>

Message-id:

Section of the document concerned:

[Free text description]Document as a wholeIntroduction Related Documents Authoring tools The Role of User Agents The Four Principles of Accessibility Important New Terms Used in WCAG 2.0 Conformance Technology assumptions and the "baseline" Conformance levels and the baseline Conformance claims Content that conforms to WCAG 1.0 How to refer to WCAG 2.0 from other documents Guideline 1.1 Success Criterion 1.1.1 Guideline 1.2 Success Criterion 1.2.1 Success Criterion 1.2.2 Success Criterion 1.2.3 Success Criterion 1.2.4 Success Criterion 1.2.5 Success Criterion 1.2.6 Success Criterion 1.2.7 Guideline 1.3 Success Criterion 1.3.1 Success Criterion 1.3.2 Success Criterion 1.3.3 Success Criterion 1.3.4 Success Criterion 1.3.5 Guideline 1.4 Success Criterion 1.4.1 Success Criterion 1.4.2 Success Criterion 1.4.3 Success Criterion 1.4.4 Guideline 2.1 Success Criterion 2.1.1 Success Criterion 2.1.2 Guideline 2.2 Success Criterion 2.2.1 Success Criterion 2.2.2 Success Criterion 2.2.3 Success Criterion 2.2.4 Success Criterion 2.2.5 Success Criterion 2.2.6 Guideline 2.3 Success Criterion 2.3.1 Success Criterion 2.3.2 Guideline 2.4 Success Criterion 2.4.1 Success Criterion 2.4.2 Success Criterion 2.4.3 Success Criterion 2.4.4 Success Criterion 2.4.5 Success Criterion 2.4.6 Success Criterion 2.4.7 Success Criterion 2.4.8 Guideline 2.5 Success Criterion 2.5.1 Success Criterion 2.5.2 Success Criterion 2.5.3 Success Criterion 2.5.4 Guideline 3.1 Success Criterion 3.1.1 Success Criterion 3.1.2 Success Criterion 3.1.3 Success Criterion 3.1.4 Success Criterion 3.1.5 Success Criterion 3.1.6 Guideline 3.2 Success Criterion 3.2.1 Success Criterion 3.2.2 Success Criterion 3.2.3 Success Criterion 3.2.4 Success Criterion 3.2.5 Guideline 4.1 Success Criterion 4.1.1 Success Criterion 4.1.2 Guideline 4.2 Success Criterion 4.2.1 Success Criterion 4.2.2 Success Criterion 4.2.3 Success Criterion 4.2.4 Appendix A: Glossary Appendix B: Checklist Appendix C: Acknowledgements Appendix D: Comparison of WCAG 1.0 checkpoints to WCAG 2.0 Appendix E: References
or

Refinement of the section concerned:

Status:

open proposal pending resolved_yes resolved_no resolved_partial other assigned to Nobody Abma, Jake Abou-Zahra, Shadi Allan, Jim Auclair, Christopher Avila, Jonathan Babinszki, Tom Bailey, Bruce Bernard, Renaldo Bernier, Alex Blake, Matthew Boudreau, Denis Brewer, Judy Butler, Shari Campbell, Alastair Carlson, Laura Chakravarthula, Srinivasu Cirrincione, Pietro Conway, Vivienne Cooper, Michael Crutchfield, Elizabeth Deltour, Romain Dick, Wayne Ding, Chaohai Dirks, Kim Dixit, Shwetank Draffan, E.A. Duggin, Alistair Eggert, Eric Elledge, Michael Faulkner, Steve Ferraz, Reinaldo Fiers, Wilco Fischer, Detlev Foliot, John Garrish, Matt Garrison, Alistair Gower, Michael Guarino Reid, Loretta Hakkinen, Markku Haritos-Shea, Katie Henry, Shawn Hoffmann, Thomas Horton, Sarah Isager, Kasper Jensen, Tobias Christian Johansson, Stefan Johlic, Marc Johnson, Rick Jones, Crystal Joys Andersen, Wilhelm Kapoor, Shilpi Keim, Oliver Kirkpatrick, Andrew Kirkwood, John Kiss, Jason Kraft, Maureen Ku, JaEun Kurapati, Sujasree Lauke, Patrick Lauriat, Shawn Lee, Steve Lemon, Gez Li, Alex Li, Kepeng Li, Liangcheng Loiselle, Chris Lowney, Greg Lui, Edwina Lund, Adam Ma, Jia MacDonald, David Mace, Amanda Manser, Erich Martin, Debra McCormack, Scott McMeeking, Chris McSorley, Jan Milliken, Neil Montgomery, Rachael Mueller, Mary Jo nicole, windmann Niemann, Gundula Nurthen, James O Connor, Joshue Oh, Jeong-Hun Panchang, Sailesh Pandhi, Charu Pasi, Aparna Patch, Kimberly Philipp, Melanie Pluke, Mike Pouncey, Ian Repsher, Stephen Rochford, John Runyan, Marla Savva, Andreas Sawczyn, Steve Schnabel, Stefan Seeman-Kestenbaum, Lisa Sims, Glenda Singh, Avneesh Skotkjerra, Stein Erik Sloan, David Smith, Alan Smith, Jim Solomon, Adam Spellman, Jeanne F Strobbe, Christophe Suprock, Greg Swallow, David Thompson, Kenneth Thyme, Anne Ueki, Makoto Vaishnav, Jatin Vanderheiden, Gregg Venkata, Manoj Wahlbin, Kathleen Wang, Can WANG, WEI White, Jason Zelmanowicz, Erica Zerner, Adam Zhang, Mengni

Type: substantive editorial typo question general comment undefined

Resolution status:

Response drafted Resolution implemented Reply sent to commenter

Response status:

No response from Commenter yet Commenter approved disposition Commenter objected to disposition
Commenter's response (URI):

Comment:

Currently, 2.1.1 is not clear that HTML fallback techniques for Javascript dropdown menus are sufficient. Nor is our conformance section clear that deficiences on one web unit can be made up on another web unit. For example the LongDesc (1.1) provides an alternative on a separate web unit. But our conformance is "web unit" based. We need to allow for this.

This came up because many corporate web sites are meeting 508 compliance by having a JavaScript dropdown menu where the top item is a keyboard accessible link that goes to a separate page that has all of the links that were in the dropdown menu.

WebAim recommends this technique here.

http://www.webaim.org/techniques/javascript/eventhandlers.php (see example 2)

Real examples are here:
http://www.cab-acr.ca/english/default.shtm
http://www.futurescholar.com/Home.htm

When I read 2.1.1 and I thought about the (per Web Unit) conformance it seemed to me that our current wording didn’t allow it. Ben thought it might be able to go in Guideline 4 but if someone had JavaScript in their Baseline then I think 2.1.1 would apply… I talked with Michael and Bruce and they both thought we should clarify that this is a viable navigation strategy.

Gregg responded:
>>>One has to be completely accessible except that there can be a link from an inaccessible part to an accessible version of that part if it can be viewed independently – and then you return. (this is in fact what we do with Longdesc). I would run this answer past group A though just to be sure before I used it (unless you are just using it in an issue summary going to a team anyway.

Recommend:

How about something like in 2.1.1

Situation: For pages that have script or programmatic pop down navigation menus when that technology is not in the baseline

1. Providing an HTML link to a place (on the same page or a separate page) with the navigation menu in HTML

If script in baseline - then you CAN use “Create HTML fallbacks for Javascript menus� OR you can just have js script menu with full keyboard access

If script not in baseline – you CAN “Create HTML fallbacks for Javascript menus�. Full keyboard access to menu does NOT satisfy SC.

Also: Add phrase to the conformance section that allows for make up alternatives on a separate Web Unit directly accessed from a web unit.

(longdesc and HTML fallbacks for JavaScript menus).

Related issues: (space separated ids)

WG Notes: [TEAMB] BBC: Not sure this requires a separate situation since there is only one technique currently listed under 2.1.1 and both would be sufficient whether navigation menus were present or not. Discussed in the 03 August 2006 telecon: Resolution: LC-1442 referred back to team a to review the survey comments. http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2006/08/03-wai-wcag-minutes.html Survey Comments: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20060803teama/results#x1442 BBC: I've updated the proposal so that the new technique is only listed as sufficient for 4.2.1. I had considered including a note in 2.1.1 on this topic that points to 4.2.1, but I think this is covered by the techniques boilerplate already. Discussed in the 10 August 2006 telecon: resolution: put 1442 on hold with the keyword alternate_versions and reasign it to team B... David will join in the conversation about it http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2006/08/10-wai-wcag-minutes.htm Discussed 01 Feb 2007 resolution: Accept 1442 as proposed http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2007/02/01-wai-wcag-minutes.html {accept} Response: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/2007Jun/0051.html

Resolution: We have moved discussion of alternate versions of content to the Conformance section of the Guidelines, and we have clarified by adding the following conformance criterion: 4.) Alternate Versions: If the Web page does not meet all of the success criteria for a specified level, then a mechanism to obtain an alternate version that meets all of the success criteria can be derived from the nonconforming content or its URI, and that mechanism meets all success criteria for the specified level of conformance. The alternate version does not need to be matched page for page with the original (e.g. the alternative to a page may consist of multiple pages). If multiple language versions are available, then conforming versions are required for each language offered.. Note: If multiple language versions are available, then conformant versions are required for each language offered.

(Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)