Edit comment LC-1069 for Accessibility Guidelines Working Group

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Comment LC-1069

Comment Shortname:

Commenter: Gian Sampson-Wild <gian@tkh.com.au>

Message-id:

Section of the document concerned:

[Free text description]Document as a wholeIntroduction Related Documents Authoring tools The Role of User Agents The Four Principles of Accessibility Important New Terms Used in WCAG 2.0 Conformance Technology assumptions and the "baseline" Conformance levels and the baseline Conformance claims Content that conforms to WCAG 1.0 How to refer to WCAG 2.0 from other documents Guideline 1.1 Success Criterion 1.1.1 Guideline 1.2 Success Criterion 1.2.1 Success Criterion 1.2.2 Success Criterion 1.2.3 Success Criterion 1.2.4 Success Criterion 1.2.5 Success Criterion 1.2.6 Success Criterion 1.2.7 Guideline 1.3 Success Criterion 1.3.1 Success Criterion 1.3.2 Success Criterion 1.3.3 Success Criterion 1.3.4 Success Criterion 1.3.5 Guideline 1.4 Success Criterion 1.4.1 Success Criterion 1.4.2 Success Criterion 1.4.3 Success Criterion 1.4.4 Guideline 2.1 Success Criterion 2.1.1 Success Criterion 2.1.2 Guideline 2.2 Success Criterion 2.2.1 Success Criterion 2.2.2 Success Criterion 2.2.3 Success Criterion 2.2.4 Success Criterion 2.2.5 Success Criterion 2.2.6 Guideline 2.3 Success Criterion 2.3.1 Success Criterion 2.3.2 Guideline 2.4 Success Criterion 2.4.1 Success Criterion 2.4.2 Success Criterion 2.4.3 Success Criterion 2.4.4 Success Criterion 2.4.5 Success Criterion 2.4.6 Success Criterion 2.4.7 Success Criterion 2.4.8 Guideline 2.5 Success Criterion 2.5.1 Success Criterion 2.5.2 Success Criterion 2.5.3 Success Criterion 2.5.4 Guideline 3.1 Success Criterion 3.1.1 Success Criterion 3.1.2 Success Criterion 3.1.3 Success Criterion 3.1.4 Success Criterion 3.1.5 Success Criterion 3.1.6 Guideline 3.2 Success Criterion 3.2.1 Success Criterion 3.2.2 Success Criterion 3.2.3 Success Criterion 3.2.4 Success Criterion 3.2.5 Guideline 4.1 Success Criterion 4.1.1 Success Criterion 4.1.2 Guideline 4.2 Success Criterion 4.2.1 Success Criterion 4.2.2 Success Criterion 4.2.3 Success Criterion 4.2.4 Appendix A: Glossary Appendix B: Checklist Appendix C: Acknowledgements Appendix D: Comparison of WCAG 1.0 checkpoints to WCAG 2.0 Appendix E: References
or

Refinement of the section concerned:

Status:

open proposal pending resolved_yes resolved_no resolved_partial other assigned to Nobody Abma, Jake Abou-Zahra, Shadi Allan, Jim Auclair, Christopher Avila, Jonathan Babinszki, Tom Bailey, Bruce Bernard, Renaldo Bernier, Alex Blake, Matthew Boudreau, Denis Brewer, Judy Butler, Shari Campbell, Alastair Carlson, Laura Chakravarthula, Srinivasu Cirrincione, Pietro Conway, Vivienne Cooper, Michael Crutchfield, Elizabeth Deltour, Romain Dick, Wayne Ding, Chaohai Dirks, Kim Dixit, Shwetank Draffan, E.A. Duggin, Alistair Eggert, Eric Elledge, Michael Faulkner, Steve Ferraz, Reinaldo Fiers, Wilco Fischer, Detlev Foliot, John Garrish, Matt Garrison, Alistair Gower, Michael Guarino Reid, Loretta Hakkinen, Markku Haritos-Shea, Katie Henry, Shawn Hoffmann, Thomas Horton, Sarah Isager, Kasper Jensen, Tobias Christian Johansson, Stefan Johlic, Marc Johnson, Rick Jones, Crystal Joys Andersen, Wilhelm Kapoor, Shilpi Keim, Oliver Kirkpatrick, Andrew Kirkwood, John Kiss, Jason Kraft, Maureen Ku, JaEun Kurapati, Sujasree Lauke, Patrick Lauriat, Shawn Lee, Steve Lemon, Gez Li, Alex Li, Kepeng Li, Liangcheng Loiselle, Chris Lowney, Greg Lui, Edwina Lund, Adam Ma, Jia MacDonald, David Mace, Amanda Manser, Erich Martin, Debra McCormack, Scott McMeeking, Chris McSorley, Jan Milliken, Neil Montgomery, Rachael Mueller, Mary Jo nicole, windmann Niemann, Gundula Nurthen, James O Connor, Joshue Oh, Jeong-Hun Panchang, Sailesh Pandhi, Charu Pasi, Aparna Patch, Kimberly Philipp, Melanie Pluke, Mike Pouncey, Ian Repsher, Stephen Rochford, John Runyan, Marla Savva, Andreas Sawczyn, Steve Schnabel, Stefan Seeman-Kestenbaum, Lisa Sims, Glenda Singh, Avneesh Skotkjerra, Stein Erik Sloan, David Smith, Alan Smith, Jim Solomon, Adam Spellman, Jeanne F Strobbe, Christophe Suprock, Greg Swallow, David Thompson, Kenneth Thyme, Anne Ueki, Makoto Vaishnav, Jatin Vanderheiden, Gregg Venkata, Manoj Wahlbin, Kathleen Wang, Can WANG, WEI White, Jason Zelmanowicz, Erica Zerner, Adam Zhang, Mengni

Type: substantive editorial typo question general comment undefined

Resolution status:

Response drafted Resolution implemented Reply sent to commenter

Response status:

No response from Commenter yet Commenter approved disposition Commenter objected to disposition
Commenter's response (URI):

Comment:

Stylesheets: It could be argued that the sequence of content can always be programmatically determined- otherwise it could not be presented to the user in that particular sequence. Because 1.3.3 maps to checkpoint 6.1, it is obvious that what is meant by the WCAG2 SC is that if style sheets are used to manipulate the layout of text, then the layout without style sheets must present a meaningful alternative. However it can be argued that simply because a user agent (ie browser) can interpret the style sheet to present information in a certain way, that it is automatically programmatically determinable.

Proposed Change:

Clarify the SC 1.3.3

Related issues: (space separated ids)

WG Notes: [TEAMC] Discussed in the 20 July 2006 telecon: Resolution: Accept LC-1069 as ammended with Ben's addtional material from the survey. http://www.w3.org/2006/07/20-wai-wcag-minutes.html Response: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/2007Jul/0107.html New issue: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=2336

Resolution: Please note that the the definition of programmatically determined specifically covers support by assistive technologies: "determined by software from author-supplied data provided in a way that different user agents, including assistive technologies, can extract and present this information to users in different modalities". CSS can be used to position items visually on a page. While the position is of course programatically determined, the reading order on the basis of CSS positioning is not, because CSS lacks layout concepts such as "previous" or "next" that would define, unambiguously, the proper reading order of a graphical layout. In theory, advanced heuristics might be able to extrapolate this information, but such approaches are not supported by current tools so this is not a sufficient technique at this time. Therefore, this success criterion does have relevance and it is recommended to follow the sufficient techniques provided.

(Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)