W3C

RDF-in-XHTML TF

24 Jan 2006

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Ralph Swick, Ben Adida, Steven Pemberton, Mark Birbeck, Jeremy Carroll
Regrets
Chair
Ben
Scribe
Ralph
Previous
2006-01-17

Contents


 

Change meeting day?

Steven: Mondays ok up to 1600 UTC end; i.e. could start a 1-hour call as late as 1500 UTC

Mark: Monday up to 1530 UTC end

Ben: Monday ok

RESOLUTION: TF telecons scheduled for 1400 UTC Mondays

WD Status

Ben: SWBPD WG approved RDF/A Primer to go to first public Working Draft

Ralph: yes, the WG is expecting only small editorial changes now to the Editor's Draft

Mark: there are still some small examples we wanted to get in before it's a draft in public space. I posted a merged document with these examples last week

Ralph: yes, I thought we were going to include Mark's merged stuff in what the WG reviewers saw

Jeremy: propose that we create the version we meant to present and then tell the WG we made a mistake and ask the reviewers to look at [just] the additional text. We can ask this on the WG mailing list and the decision should involve the chairs

ACTION: contact WG and chairs to notify of mistake and prepare the new version. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action01]

ACTION: Mark to send Ben his latest XML version of the Primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action02]

ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]

ACTION: [PENDING] All in the TF to look at http://www.w3.org/2005/05/hrel/ to decide whether it's ready for WG review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action03]

Mark: I recall looking at this ages ago and there was one issue, perhaps about use of types for documents

Steven: something about resource and document

Mark: something that required documentation, raised by Dan

ACTION: [DONE] Ben draft a response to Gary Ng's comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action04]

ACTION: [DONE] Ben respond to Pat's RDF/A comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action01]

ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to draft a new example of RDF/A as an XHTML document that is its own RSS feed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action05]

ACTION: [DONE] Steven confirm an answer on issue 6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action02]

<Steven> done in @src as subject

Steven: my conclusion is that although there are cases where it can be useful, it causes more problems than it solves, so this is a place where we should duplicate the URL

Ralph: seems simpler to duplicate the data than complicate the rules

Steven: I considered several different approaches; each one either made another useful use case disappear or made it less obvious what was being expressed

Jeremy: @about overriding @src was the cleanest one in my mind. KISS does seem to argue against this override. Simpler rules at the expense of occasionally having to duplicate seems acceptable but let's document this and be sure to apply it consistently

Mark: rather than putting src in the same category as href and about, let's say IMG becomes an anonymous node so the element IMG has a title rather than the resource at foo.png

Ralph: why is it useful to say that a bnode has a title? overloading the interpretation of the same URI to represent both a document and a non-document is a mess we need to clean up -- and the TAG has proposed a solution

Mark: when we add a property to an image, folk who go retrieve that image won't find the title text

Jeremy: I tend to think that one can always improve the quality of a model -- that is, the accuracy -- by adding another level of bnodes. People who are satisfied with the model they have argue against adding layers of bnodes

Mark: Steven? pointed out last week that src was identifying the object rather than the subject; it's as if <img src='foo.png'> were <span rel='image' href='foo.png'>

Ben: if you include META and LINK within IMG now then those properties are attached to the image element

Mark: src can be on any element; what it points to depends on the element so it's like href

Steven: intuitively, more authors will think src is like href -- and not a subject

TENTATIVE CONCLUSION: src is like href and does not identify a triple subject

ACTION: [CONTINUES] Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]

ACTION: [CONTINUES] Jeremy followup on <head about=...> edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03]

ACTION: [CONTINUES] Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01]

ACTION: [CONTINUES] Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02]

Mark: we may want to devote an entire telecon to the related reification question

Jeremy: reification is not must-have for me; it's too broken

Ben: can we try to take up nested META, reification, and the implementation on 13 Feb?

Jeremy: [reluctantly] will try

Jeremy: using named graphs in RDF/A is to big a step from current SW standards

Jeremy: (relates to earlier discussion about reification)

next meeting: Monday 30 Jan 1400 UTC

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: contact WG and chairs to notify of mistake and prepare the new version. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Mark to send Ben his latest XML version of the Primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: All in the TF to look at http://www.w3.org/2005/05/hrel/ to decide whether it's ready for WG review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to draft a new example of RDF/A as an XHTML document that is its own RSS feed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action05]
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy followup on <head about=...> edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Ben draft a response to Gary Ng's comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action04]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben respond to Pat's RDF/A comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action01]
[DONE] ACTION: Steven confirm an answer on issue 6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

$Date: 2006/01/24 17:06:52 $