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F2F10 will be hosted by DERI Galway in Galway, at DERI, in the second May May 26-28, 2008.

See registration results.

Last Call in the Head of a pint o' Guinness

Agenda & Minutes



Day 1
  • RESOLVED: BLD will include Conjunction in the rule head (the "then" part)
  • RESOLVED: remove language about all the subtypes of xsd:string being required
  • RESOLVED: DTB will provide the menu of datatypes and builtins which dialects can use, by reference, when they state which datatypes and builtins must be supported by implementations.
  • RESOLVED: add xs:dayTimeDuration and xs:yearMonthDuration, but NOT duration, to those required in BLD (and of course DTB), as in http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery-operators/#dt-yearMonthDuration
  • RESOLVED: add builtin predicates to BLD and DTB: pred:numeric-less-or-equal, pred:numberic-greater-or-equal, pred:numberic-not-equal (they amount to shortcuts, to avoid disjunction).
  • RESOLVED: Publish DTB as a FPWD once changes decided so far today are made (and reviewed by Chris)
Day 2
  • RESOLVED: remove aliases for symbol space identifiers in RIF
  • RESOLVED: modify Presentation Syntax to include "Const ::= STRING" (allowing "chat" as short for "chat"^^xs:string).
  • RESOLVED: add xsd:double as a required symbol space
  • RESOLVED: reuse NumericLiteral from SPARQL http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#rNumericLiteral giving us INTEGER, DECIMAL, and DOUBLE to the Presentation Syntax
  • RESOLVED: modify presentation syntax so that alphanumeric identifiers starting with "_" are shortcut for rif:local (so _foo is short for "foo"^^rif:local)
  • RESOLVED: Adopt SPARQL convention for using backslash to allow quotes (and cr, lf, tab, etc) within quoted strings (in Presentation Syntax).
  • RESOLVED: Close Issue 56 as addressed by the resolutions this morning.
  • RESOLVED: Publish SWC as LAST CALL Working Draft, after changes agreed upon this session and yesterday are made (and checked by CSMA)
  • RESOLVED: Close Issue 49 with decisions made so far today
  • RESOLVED: Close Issue 54 with at-risk label as decided this morning.
  • RESOLVED: Close Issue 60 as decided this morning -- if they are incomparable it's an error
  • RESOLVED: Answer to Dan is that in BLD, pred and funcs have one arity, and it is correct that the restriction holds even across multiple documents. So the requirement is met -- rulesets can be merged -- but if one ruleset is in error, then the merged version will be able to detect the error.
  • RESOLVED: in the RIF XML syntax (as long as we stick with this non-RDF style), attributes will have no namespace (be unqualified) (so that we can avoid "rif:" in documents)
  • RESOLVED: Change External(ATOMIC) to External(Atom) or External(Frame) and add text explaining how External frames are supported by the semantics.
  • RESOLVED: accept the conformance statement on http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Conformance for BLD, up to the separator line.
  • RESOLVED: we'll have an XML such that RIF can operate on RIF documents at a RIF-syntactic-level instead of a DOM level. Requires something like numbering arguments or rdf:parsetype="collection" or ordered="yes".
  • RESOLVED: use an XML attribute rif:ordered="yes" (as exemplified above) or using an equivalent unique method to specify order, which works like rdf:parseType="Collection" (and rif:type attribute gets qualified again.)
Day 3
  • RESOLVED: Close Issue 34 as addressed by text currently in BLD at http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#Conformance_Clauses
  • RESOLVED: RIF will use rif:ordered="yes". This item will be marked "at risk", saying the name and XML details on this bit may change.
  • RESOLVED: Adopt the XML syntax for metadata in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008May/0036.html and given as the first example on http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Metadata_examples, using conjunction-of-frames instead of all formulas.
  • RESOLVED: the <id> and <meta> elements can occur under any Class element (this matter is underspecified in 0036, and previous resolution).
  • RESOLVED: Close Issue 51 (metadata syntax and rule identification) give the decisions made so far this meeting.
  • RESOLVED: Close Issue 58 (Comments) by suggesting people use Dublin Core, RDFS, and OWL properties for metadata, along the lines of http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#Annotations -- specifically owl:versionInfo, rdfs:label, rdfs:comment, rdfs:seeAlso, rdfs:isDefinedBy, dc:creator, dc:description, dc:date, foaf:maker. This goes in BLD (near where the metadata syntax goes).
  • RESOLVED: close Issue 55 (striping and xml syntax and rdf/xml syntax compatibility) addressed by decisions made so far this meeting
  • RESOLVED: move Issue 57 (xml syntax extensibility) out of critical path
  • RESOLVED: We say metadata SHOULD survive the translation from-and-back-to RIF
  • RESOLVED: close Issue 59 as discussed in this meeting
  • RESOLVED: In Presentation Syntax, the IRIs in rif:iri Consts can be relative.
  • RESOLVED: We'll use XML 1.0 as amended http://www.w3.org/TR/xml (not XML 1.1) for the XML syntax for BLD.
  • RESOLVED: make equality-in-the-head a feature-at-risk.
  • RESOLVED: Mark "at risk" the strictness part of the conformance clause
  • RESOLVED: Advance BLD to Last Call, pending satisfactory completion of the edits decided at this meeting.
  • RESOLVED: Publish PRD as a FPWD, given the editorial changes decided so far this meeting (after confirmation of edits by Gary and Adrian).
  • RESOLVED: The WG requests a 1-year extension, with the work plan/description http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Extension_Request_2008
  • RESOLVED: conditional on reviews by Jos and Chris, publish FLD as 2cnd WD

Meeting objectives

YesY Finalize BLD and SWC Last Call drafts for publication asap after F2F10 (Resolve all the issues that remain on the critical path to BLD Last Call);

YesY Prepare DTB 1st public WD and FLD 2nd public WD for publication at the same time as BLD LC (Focusing on what need be in DTB and FLD for BLD to be published as LC);

YesY Prepare PRD 1st public WD;

YesY Agree on the future of the WG (post BLD LC);

  • Prepare UCR 3rd public WD for publication asap

Reading List

Publication decisions are expected on each of these documents:

Schedule & Topics

Day 1 (9am-6pm)

  • Morning
    • intro, agenda, objectives, process reminder (what is LC) etc (30m)
    • Review of internal & external comments (1h)
    • implementations (Gary, Igor, Axel, etc...) (30m)
    • DTB review & publication (1h)
  • Afternoon
    • striping, Type-Tagged-XML (1h)
    • metadata, comments and survivability (2h)
    • conformance (30m)
      • including datatype extensibility etc; including discussion of the principles re MUST, MUST NOT etc; not including detailled discussion of specific normative recommandations about that
    • naming conventions; selection of names within naming conventions (30m)

Day 2 (9am-6pm)

  • Morning
    • Presentation syntax (shortcuts etc) (1h)
    • RDF+OWL review & publication (30m)
      • Identification of at-risk features
    • Guide to RIF (30m)
    • naming conventions; selection of names within naming conventions (1h)
  • Afternoon
    • BLD review & publication (2h)

Day 3 Morning (9am-6pm)

  • Morning
    • Finish BLD
      • Identification of at-risk features
      • Decision on Last Call
  • Afternoon
    • PRD (1h)
    • Admin (1h)
      • Publication Planning
      • One-Year Extension for WG
    • UCR (30 min)
    • break
    • Schedule F2F11 and F2F12
    • more PRD, FLD, ... as time allows

Original Agenda


   Digital Enterprise Research Institute
   National University of Ireland, Galway
   IDA Business Park,
   Lower Dangan
   Galway, Ireland

Facilities provided

  • we will provide lunches, 2 coffee breaks per day and a social dinner (this is estimating around 15 attendees)
  • internet connection and call-in facilities will be provided


  • You find several Hotels recommended by NUI Galway at http://www.nuigalway.ie/procurement/internal/contracts_awarded.html (check the distance to DERI before!)
  • The closest and most convenient Hotel (right across the street) is Westwood House Hotel. We have an agreed corporate rate from NUI Galway with Westwood hotel at 89 EUR per night. Reservations can be made calling there and referring to that you are visiting NUIG requesting the special rate, or via our secretary: Hilda Fitzpatrick.
  • Glenlo Abbey is also very close to DERI (and has a nice golf course :-) ).
  • For ones happy with a friendly and nice B'n'B (nothing fancy, but walking distance from DERI), I recommend Abbey House, which has reasonable rates, clean rooms and an incredible Full Irish breakfast (number of rooms limited, though).

Getting there and away

  • AerArann flies directly to Galway airport from Dublin and several UK destinations. AerArann also opened a new route to Amsterdam 4 times weekly, starting from May!
  • Shannon Airport is the next bigger airport, offering direct flights from the US for New York, Boston, Chicago, for example.
  • Flights to Dublin Airport require you to travel onwards either with AerArann (see above), bus, or train.
  • Buses between Dublin or Shannon and Galway operate by CityLink, NestorLink, or Bus Eirrann
  • Travelling by train from Dublin to Galway (Timetable 2008, PDF) is not recommended unless you want to stop over in Dublin city, since reaching Dublin Heuston Station from Dublin Airport is not necessarily convenient, although the train is faster than the bus in general, if you are already in the city.
  • As for local transport, a reliable Taxi company is Big-O-Taxis, telephone number: +353 (0) 91 585858

Other Proposals

These other sites proposed hosting F2F10 are are kept here for historical reasons and potential future reuse.

University of Aberdeen can host F2F10 in Aberdeen, UK.

    • We would provide 2 lunches, 2 coffee breaks per day (I have to check for dinner).
    • Wifi internet will be provided.

Jozef Stefan Institute can host F2F10 at Bled, Slovenia:

    • Proposed dates: 14-16 May 2008 (Wed-Fri)
    • Location: Google maps
    • Transportation: about 35km from the Ljubljana intl. airport
    • Meeting and accommodation in Hotel Park (****). Rates (incl. breakfast):
      • Single room (park view) 112 EUR
      • Single room (lake view) 130 EUR
      • Double room (park view) 136 EUR
      • Double room (lake view) 154 EUR
    • Alternative accommodation Hotel Savica (***, 5 min. walk from hotel Park):
      • Single room 90 EUR
      • Double room 110 EUR
    • JSI will sponsor: three lunches, coffee breaks, and one group dinner; there will be no registration fee.
    • Wifi internet will be provided.
  • Decision has to be made by the end of February!