Technical Architecture Group Teleconference

27 Jan 2011


See also: IRC log


John Kemp, Peter Linss, Larry Masinter, Yves Lafon, Ashok Malhotra, Noah Mendelsohn, T.V. Raman, Jonathan Rees, Henry Thompson
Tim Berners-Lee
Noah Mendelsohn
Jonathan Rees



<trackbot> Date: 27 January 2011

<scribe> scribenick: jar_

<scribe> scribe: Jonathan Rees

<noah> <li>Work with Tim to decide most effective next steps on his <a href="http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/437">ACTION-437</a></li>

noah: f2f agenda in preparation...

<johnk> I will have to leave at 2pm today, by the way

noah: Skipping item 2 of agenda, we'll deal with minutes at an upcoming meeting

F2F agenda planning

ashok: I will send you (Noah) new client side state draft, and foils for client side storage story, for people to read

noah: Please allow TAG members more time for readings requiring more time to read
... consider accessibility issue regarding colors - how about using CSS

johnk: have been working on security section, hope to have ready in time for f2f

<NoahM> Work in progress agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/08-agenda.html

noah: I will talk you through it... it's very rough, has some stale content
... DO NOT look at the part above the red box "chair's working notes on ..." ...
... but please look at the bullet list following the red box - let's review it

<NoahM> See only the section: Chair's working notes on the Agenda

<NoahM> Rest is old stuff or work-in-progress.

<johnk> yes, AWWW security is missing


<trackbot> ACTION-478 -- Jonathan Rees to prepare a first draft of a finding on persistence of references, to be based on decision tree from Oct. F2F Due: 2010-01-31 -- due 2011-01-31 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/478

noah: Need to add JohnK + security to list


<trackbot> ACTION-417 -- John Kemp to frame section 7, security -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/417

noah: talk about the IETF Prague meeting at f2f?

masinter: don't think so

<NoahM> ACTION-511?

<trackbot> ACTION-511 -- Larry Masinter to send email framing TAG work on registries -- due 2011-01-20 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/511

masinter: much of what's in the mime document is about registries
... how about let's invite philippe to talk about this

Noah: we meet with w3c team at lunch on tuesday
... the TAG is TEN

<NoahM> ACTION-381?

<trackbot> ACTION-381 -- Jonathan Rees to spend 2 hours helping Ian with http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/ -- due 2011-02-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/381

Yves: re issue-58 we can talk about how to autogenerate the catalog

noah: Being a good teacher is hard, that's why action-381 is hard

<NoahM> JAR: I've been working on httpRange-14 in conjunction with AWWSW. We can discuss it in the AWWSW slot.

noah: Noting request to put AWWSW and TDB near one another in schedule.

IETF draft on MIME

not everyone up to speed

masinter: section 1 the web uses mime, section 2 history, 3 problems
... maybe i should combine 3 & 4
... they're trying to say what's wrong, why we have a problem
... section 5, what kinds of fixes could we apply? (without going into specifics)
... that's the overall plan. there were other comments i got that i didn't know what to do with
... differences were not significant or major
... procedurally better if we don't get everything in here perfect.
... I would like people to check to make sure that what I've said makes sense

yves: HTML5 is calling for violation of rules stated in mime registry; that is an issue
... fragments and mime types [?]
... need to find ways to document issues with already registered mime types. not easy to do

masinter: Does the document explain the issues well enough? are the proposed list of things to fix complete?
... I thought these things were mentioned in the draft. If not need to fix

yves: polyglot. text vs. image. the case of SVG if labelled as image/svg+xml or application/xml

masinter: things missing, or incorrect statements of problems / fixes?
... Maybe it's close to being done for now.
... how about if we talk about it on a telcon after the f2f

<noah> ACTION-472 to be discussed in future telcon, with aim of getting agreement to push forward..f2f time not needed.

ashok: It's a nicely written paper
... There were a couple things related to client side state work. Many registrations don't describe semantics of fragids...

<Ashok> A possible solution is to amend the definition in the media types that accept "active content" in them, like HTML and SVG, to acknowledge the fact that fragments might also be used (if not in contradiction with the 'static' use of those fragments) for programmatic purposes.

ashok: and maybe registrations should say something about active content?
... I didn't figure out where you came out on magic numbers - against, for, useful in addition, what?

masinter: In many contexts all you have to go on is the magic number. A heuristic that in many contexts is essential.
... There are situations where the mechanism of transmitting mime types hasn't been effective.
... Need to be clearer on what they're for. The sniffing doc has moved from being individual submission, to work item of security WG
... Need to think about authoritative metadata and sniffing
... sniffing isn't enough
... lots of confusion around language versions. sniffing doesn't tell you which version
... collisions in magic-number-space

<johnk> sorry, I have to leave early today

noah: do we need to go into this detail here? sniffing seems like a separate discussion

masinter: I want the doc to gather in one place all these related problems

noah: servers should do the right thing, because ...

masinter: Want to increase the scope of the document
... include charsets, talk about context in which mime types are used
... Doc can identify problems without solving them

raman: Talking about sniffing in this doc is unavoidable. you have to.

<Zakim> NoahM, you wanted to talk about self-describing Web and authoritative metadata

masinter: ready for detailed change suggestions; or new topics

noah: please lead the process that will lead to a decision to bless

<noah> ACTION-472?

<trackbot> ACTION-472 -- Larry Masinter to update the mime-draft based on comments & review -- due 2010-12-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/472

noah: I have reopened action-472

<noah> ACTION-472 Due 2011-03-01

<trackbot> ACTION-472 Update the mime-draft based on comments & review due date now 2011-03-01

masinter: would like to get review from everyone, so they can agree (or, agree without review)

<noah> ACTION-472 Due 2011-02-11

<trackbot> ACTION-472 Update the mime-draft based on comments & review due date now 2011-02-11

masinter: would like to call for resolution at end of f2f

Thanks Raman

<noah> I would like to note that "as chair", I have thanked Raman for his fine service and many contributions to the TAG.

all: (acclaim)

Overdue Action Items

<noah> ACTION-341?

<trackbot> ACTION-341 -- Yves Lafon to follow up with Thomas about security review activities for HTML5 -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/341

<noah> ACTION-341 2011-03-29

<noah> ACTION-341 Due 2011-03-29

<trackbot> ACTION-341 Follow up with Thomas about security review activities for HTML5 due date now 2011-03-29

<noah> JAR: Anyone know if Web Apps working group is moving on CORS/UMP?

<noah> LM: Web security working group at IETF is picking up some of that from Web Apps at W3C

<Yves> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/websec/

<noah> ACTION-471?

<trackbot> ACTION-471 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule discussion of "Like SVG" Dist Extensibility Proposal for HTML5 -- due 2010-09-28 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/471

<noah> ACTION-417?

<trackbot> ACTION-417 -- John Kemp to frame section 7, security -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/417

<noah> 417 will be on the F2F agenda (not 471)

noah: Thursday call is on unless cancelled


Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2011/02/28 20:15:14 $