IRC log of tagmem on 2011-01-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:58:52 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
17:58:52 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/01/27-tagmem-irc
17:59:41 [johnk]: johnk has joined #tagmem
18:00:17 [jar_]: jar_ has joined #tagmem
18:00:24 [jar_]: zakim, this will be tag
18:00:24 [Zakim]: ok, jar_; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start now
18:00:26 [Larry]: Larry has joined #tagmem
18:00:30 [jar_]: trackbot, start meeting
18:00:32 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
18:00:34 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be TAG
18:00:34 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start now
18:00:35 [trackbot]: Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
18:00:35 [trackbot]: Date: 27 January 2011
18:00:48 [Zakim]: TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started
18:00:55 [Zakim]: + +1.858.216.aaaa
18:01:09 [plinss]: zakim, aaaa is me
18:01:09 [Zakim]: +plinss; got it
18:01:17 [Zakim]: +Masinter
18:01:35 [Zakim]: +John_Kemp
18:01:42 [Zakim]: +jar
18:02:17 [Ashok]: Ashok has joined #tagmem
18:02:38 [jar_]: jar_ has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/01/27-agenda (jar_)
18:02:47 [Zakim]: +Ashok_Malhotra
18:02:48 [Zakim]: +Yves
18:03:07 [Zakim]: +Noah_Mendelsohn
18:03:23 [jar_]: scribe: Jonathan Rees
18:03:26 [jar_]: scribenick: jar
18:03:38 [jar_]: chair: Noah Mendelsohn
18:03:41 [noah]: noah has joined #tagmem
18:03:45 [noah]: <li>Work with Tim to decide most effective next steps on his <a href="http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/437">ACTION-437</a></li>
18:03:51 [noah]: zakim, who is here?
18:03:51 [Zakim]: On the phone I see plinss, Masinter, John_Kemp, jar, Ashok_Malhotra, Yves, Noah_Mendelsohn
18:03:53 [Zakim]: On IRC I see noah, Ashok, Larry, jar_, johnk, RRSAgent, Zakim, timbl, Norm, trackbot, plinss, jar, Yves
18:07:04 [NoahM]: NoahM has joined #tagmem
18:07:19 [NoahM]: zakim, who is here?
18:07:19 [Zakim]: On the phone I see plinss, Masinter, John_Kemp, jar, Ashok_Malhotra, Yves, Noah_Mendelsohn
18:07:21 [Zakim]: On IRC I see NoahM, noah, Ashok, Larry, jar_, johnk, RRSAgent, Zakim, timbl, Norm, trackbot, plinss, jar, Yves
18:07:31 [ht_home]: ht_home has joined #tagmem
18:07:40 [ht_home]: zakim, code?
18:07:40 [Zakim]: the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), ht_home
18:08:14 [jar_]: noah: f2f agenda in preparation...
18:08:26 [Zakim]: +??P14
18:08:38 [ht_home]: zakim, ? is me
18:08:38 [Zakim]: +ht_home; got it
18:09:29 [Larry]: agenda?
18:09:32 [johnk]: I will have to leave at 2pm today, by the way
18:09:37 [jar_]: noah: Skipping item 2 of agenda, we'll deal with minutes at an upcoming meeting
18:10:46 [jar_]: ashok: I will send you (Noah) new client side state draft, and foils for client side storage story, for people to read
18:11:49 [jar_]: noah: Please allow TAG members more time for readings requiring more time to read
18:12:25 [jar_]: ... consider accessibility issue regarding colors - how about using CSS
18:13:15 [jar_]: johnk: have been working on security section, hope to have ready in time for f2f
18:13:48 [NoahM]: Work in progress agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/08-agenda.html
18:14:32 [jar_]: noah: I will talk you through it... it's very rough, has some stale content
18:15:07 [jar_]: ... DO NOT look at the part above the red box "chair's working notes on ..." ...
18:16:03 [jar_]: ... but please look at the bullet list following the red box - let's review it
18:16:07 [NoahM]: See only the section: Chair's working notes on the Agenda
18:16:16 [NoahM]: Rest is old stuff or work-in-progress.
18:16:25 [johnk]: yes, AWWW security is missing
18:16:47 [jar_]: action-478?
18:16:47 [trackbot]: ACTION-478 -- Jonathan Rees to prepare a first draft of a finding on persistence of references, to be based on decision tree from Oct. F2F Due: 2010-01-31 -- due 2011-01-31 -- OPEN
18:16:47 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/478
18:16:48 [NoahM]: ACTION-478?
18:16:48 [trackbot]: ACTION-478 -- Jonathan Rees to prepare a first draft of a finding on persistence of references, to be based on decision tree from Oct. F2F Due: 2010-01-31 -- due 2011-01-31 -- OPEN
18:16:50 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/478
18:17:56 [jar_]: noah: Need to add JohnK + security to list
18:18:14 [jar_]: action-417?
18:18:14 [trackbot]: ACTION-417 -- John Kemp to frame section 7, security -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN
18:18:14 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/417
18:20:43 [jar_]: noah: talk about the IETF Prague meeting at f2f?
18:20:54 [jar_]: masinter: don't think so
18:24:05 [NoahM]: ACTION-511?
18:24:05 [trackbot]: ACTION-511 -- Larry Masinter to send email framing TAG work on registries -- due 2011-01-20 -- OPEN
18:24:05 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/511
18:25:12 [jar_]: masinter: much of what's in the mime document is about registries
18:25:39 [jar_]: ... how about let's invite philippe to talk about this
18:27:15 [jar_]: Noah: we meet with w3c team at lunch on tuesday
18:27:26 [jar_]: ... the TAG is TEN
18:28:45 [NoahM]: ACTION-381?
18:28:45 [trackbot]: ACTION-381 -- Jonathan Rees to spend 2 hours helping Ian with http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/ -- due 2011-02-11 -- OPEN
18:28:45 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/381
18:29:31 [jar_]: Yves: re issue-58 we can talk about how to autogenerate the catalog
18:30:04 [jar_]: noah: Being a good teacher is hard, that's why action-381 is hard
18:31:45 [NoahM]: JAR: I've been working on httpRange-14 in conjunction with AWWSW. We can discuss it in the AWWSW slot.
18:34:14 [jar_]: noah: Noting request to put AWWSW and TDB near one another in schedule.
18:34:48 [jar_]: topic: IETF draft on MIME
18:35:47 [Ashok]: q+
18:36:40 [NoahM]: ack next
18:36:57 [jar_]: not everyone up to speed
18:37:26 [jar_]: masinter: the web uses mime, sec 2 history, 3 problems, maybe i should combine 3 & 4
18:37:41 [jar_]: ... they're trying to say what's wrong, why we have a problem
18:38:10 [jar_]: ... sec 5, what kinds of fixes could we apply? (without going into specifics)
18:38:42 [jar_]: ... that's the overall plan. there were other comments i got that i didn't know what to do with
18:39:02 [jar_]: ... differences were not significant or major
18:39:36 [jar_]: ... procedurally better if we don't get everything in here perfect.
18:40:16 [jar_]: ... I would like people to check to make sure that what I've said makes sense
18:40:19 [noah]: ack next
18:41:02 [jar_]: yves: HTML5 calling for violation of rules stated in mime registry is an issue
18:41:35 [jar_]: ... fragments and mime types [?]
18:41:55 [jar_]: ... need to find ways to document issues with already registered mime types. not easy to do
18:42:47 [jar_]: masinter: Does the document explain the issues well enough? are the proposed list of things to fix complete?
18:42:56 [Zakim]: +Raman
18:43:09 [jar_]: ... I thought these things were mentioned in the draft. If not need to fix
18:43:57 [jar_]: yves: polyglot. text vs. image. [scribe is coming up short]
18:44:28 [Yves]: s/[scribe is coming up short]/the case of SVG if labelled as image/svg+xml or application/xml
18:44:57 [jar_]: masinter: things missing, or incorrect statements of problems / fixes?
18:45:16 [jar_]: masinter: Maybe it's close to being done for now.
18:46:39 [jar_]: masinter: how about if we talk about it on a telcon after the f2f
18:47:15 [noah]: ACTION-472 to be discussed in future telcon, with aim of getting agreement to push forward..f2f time not needed.
18:47:57 [noah]: ack next
18:48:10 [jar_]: ashok: It's a nicely written paper
18:48:44 [jar_]: ... There were a couple things related to client side state work. Many registrations don't describe semantics of fragids...
18:48:55 [Ashok]: A possible solution is to amend the definition in the media types that accept "active content" in them, like HTML and SVG, to acknowledge tht fact that fragments might also be used (if not in contradiction with the 'static' use of those fragments) for programmatic purposes.
18:49:02 [jar_]: ... and maybe registrations should say something about active content?
18:49:46 [jar_]: ... I didn't figure out where you came out on magic numbers - against, for, useful in addition, what?
18:50:23 [jar_]: masinter: In many contexts all you to go on is the magic number. A heuristic that in many contexts is essential.
18:50:39 [NoahM]: q+ to talk about self-describing Web and authoritative
18:51:09 [jar_]: ... There are situations where the mechanism of transmitting mime types hasn't been effective.
18:51:55 [jar_]: ... Need to be clearer on what they're for. The sniffing doc has moved from being individual submission, to work item of security WG
18:52:40 [jar_]: ... Need to think about authoritative metadata and sniffing
18:52:51 [jar_]: ... sniffing isn't enough
18:53:21 [jar_]: ... lots of confusion of language versions. sniffing doesn't tell you which version
18:53:51 [jar_]: ... collisions in magic-number-space
18:54:09 [Zakim]: -John_Kemp
18:54:16 [johnk]: sorry, I have to leave early today
18:54:21 [johnk]: johnk has left #tagmem
18:54:39 [jar_]: noah: do we need to go into this detail here? sniffing seems like a separate discussion
18:55:12 [jar_]: masinter: I want the doc to gather in one place all these related problems
18:55:56 [jar_]: noah: servers should do the right thing, because ...
18:56:13 [jar_]: masinter: Want to increase the scope of the document
18:56:34 [jar_]: ... include charsets, talk about context in which mime types are used
18:56:58 [jar_]: ... Doc can identify problems without solving them
18:58:09 [jar_]: raman: Talking about sniffing in this doc is unaviodable. you have to.
18:58:16 [jar_]: s/viod/void/
18:58:21 [noah]: q?
18:58:26 [noah]: ack next
18:58:27 [Zakim]: NoahM, you wanted to talk about self-describing Web and authoritative
18:59:24 [jar_]: masinter: ready for detailed change suggestions; or new topics
19:00:22 [jar_]: noah: please lead the process that will lead to a decision to bless
19:01:07 [noah]: ACTION-472?
19:01:07 [trackbot]: ACTION-472 -- Larry Masinter to update the mime-draft based on comments & review -- due 2010-12-21 -- OPEN
19:01:07 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/472
19:01:25 [jar_]: noah: I have reopened action-472
19:01:59 [noah]: ACTION-472 Due 2011-03-01
19:01:59 [trackbot]: ACTION-472 Update the mime-draft based on comments & review due date now 2011-03-01
19:02:58 [jar_]: masinter: would like to get review from everyone, so they can agree (or, agree without review)
19:03:20 [noah]: ACTION-472 Due 2011-02-11
19:03:20 [trackbot]: ACTION-472 Update the mime-draft based on comments & review due date now 2011-02-11
19:03:33 [jar_]: masinter: would like to call for resolution at end of f2f
19:04:28 [jar_]: topic: Thanks Raman
19:06:50 [noah]: ACTION-341?
19:06:50 [trackbot]: ACTION-341 -- Yves Lafon to follow up with Thomas about security review activities for HTML5 -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN
19:06:50 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/341
19:08:13 [noah]: ACTION-341 2011-03-29
19:08:17 [noah]: ACTION-341 Due 2011-03-29
19:08:17 [trackbot]: ACTION-341 Follow up with Thomas about security review activities for HTML5 due date now 2011-03-29
19:08:56 [noah]: JAR: Anyone know if Web Apps working group is moving on CORS/UMP?
19:09:14 [noah]: LM: Web security working group at IETF is picking up some of that from Web Apps at W3C
19:09:29 [Yves]: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/websec/
19:10:05 [Zakim]: -Raman
19:10:54 [noah]: I would like to note that "as chair", I have thanked Raman for his fine service and many contributions to the TAG.
19:11:01 [Zakim]: -ht_home
19:12:34 [noah]: ACTION-471?
19:12:34 [trackbot]: ACTION-471 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule discussion of "Like SVG" Dist Extensibility Proposal for HTML5 -- due 2010-09-28 -- CLOSED
19:12:34 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/471
19:12:53 [noah]: ACTION-417?
19:12:53 [trackbot]: ACTION-417 -- John Kemp to frame section 7, security -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN
19:12:53 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/417
19:13:09 [noah]: 417 will be on the F2F agenda (not 471)
19:14:44 [jar_]: noah: Thursday call is on unless cancelled
19:14:52 [Zakim]: -Ashok_Malhotra
19:14:53 [jar_]: ADJOURNED
19:14:54 [Zakim]: -Masinter
19:14:55 [Zakim]: -Noah_Mendelsohn
19:14:55 [Zakim]: -Yves
19:14:57 [Zakim]: -plinss
19:15:00 [Zakim]: -jar
19:15:02 [Zakim]: TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended
19:15:04 [Zakim]: Attendees were +1.858.216.aaaa, plinss, Masinter, John_Kemp, jar, Ashok_Malhotra, Yves, Noah_Mendelsohn, ht_home, Raman
21:05:46 [jar_]: rrsagent, pointer
21:05:46 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2011/01/27-tagmem-irc#T21-05-46
21:15:10 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #tagmem
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