QA WG/IG F2F Minutes - Reading, UK, 27-29 October 2004
This document tries to summarize the bulk of the discussions during this two-and-a-half-days meeting.
The full minutes are also linked for reference.
The QA Team and Working group would like to thank The Open Group, and Andrew Thackrah in particular, for the gracious hosting of this meeting in Open Group's offices in Reading.
Table of Contents
- Raw minutes
- Discussions summary
- Wed, 27 October, AM
- Wed, 27 October, PM
- Thu, 28 October, AM
- Thu, 28 October, PM
- Fri, 29 October, AM
- Summary of action items
Below is the list of participants to the meeting, along with their initials (used at some points in the minutes).
- (PC) Patrick Curran (Sun Microsystems)
- (KD) Karl Dubost (W3C, WG Chair)
- (DH) Dominique Hazaël-Massieux (W3C)
- (LH) Lofton Henderson (CGMO)
- (LR) Lynne Rosenthal (NIST - IG co-chair)
- (AT) Andrew Thackrah (OpenGroup)
- (OT) Olivier Théreaux (W3C - IG co-chair)
These are the (raw) minutes for each discussion session, as written by their respective scribes.
For a quick overview of the discussions, a summary is also provided.
- Wed, 27 October, AM (scribe: OT)
- Wed, 27 October, PM (scribe: AT)
- Thu, 28 October, AM (scribe: MS)
- Thu, 28 October, PM (scribe: PC)
- Fri, 29 October, AM (scribe: LR)
- Break-out session on Terminology (scribe: LR)
- Break-out session on TestGL rewrite (scribe: AT)
- Break-out session on Examples for QA Handbook (scribe: LH)
Wednesday, 27 October, AM
QA and QAWG future
The working group will continue and at least push SpecGL
through Last Call, what happens next will depend on how well we manage to get a
good response to this publication
Dimitris has been doing work/research on test frameworks (relevant for TestG)L, and thinks our material is too remote from what WGs do.
It is unlikely that the working group will be abole to work further on TestGL, but it will be interesting to see Dimitris' findings.
The IG has not been very active, except for tools development. The WG discussed how the tools development could be expanded to
more tools, with member participants. Also, planning to revive community discussion on www-qa list.
Satisfying outcome, closing the issue.
Chairing the QAWG
Many thanks and acknowledgments for Lofton's work as chair, and discussion on how to improve how the WG is generally managed.
Wednesday, 27 October, PM
Distinction between Principles and Good Practices: the terminology is not consistent. Lofton will try to find a replacement name for "principles", the rest will be "good practices".
AI-20041027-01: Lofton to find a replacement name for "principles" in QAH
Principles & Good Practice statement are too long - should we make them shorter - declarative? The problem is not with the imperative but the length.
AI-20041027-02: Lofton to break down larger statements
AI-20041027-03: Lofton to make sub topics inside Good Practice have consistent names between QAH & SpecGL
Agreement on publication before moratorium. Next cycle we will produce a note to condense test GL.
QA Framework Primer
Dom will rewrite (for Nov. 25), Karl and Lynne will review.
Thursday, 28 October, AM Through Fri, 29 October, AM
Specifications Guidelines issues processing
Processing all the 13 issues for SpecGL listed in the agenda.
Issue 01: make sure that people know that principles are
normative and rest is informative.
the glossary cannot be normative, removing from list of normative references
Issue 02: Technique on determining a conformance model is too
LR and MS will work on it by Nov. 5
Issue 03: normative references versus future versions
AI-2004102801 - Karl to create Wiki topic to address the issues involved in normative references by Nov. 4.
AI-2004102802 - Karl to write principle and good practice on normative references, including time considerations, super setting or sub setting, breaking conformance by Nov. 4.
Issue 04: 3.1 Good Practice C: needs new wording
Resolved: use "unfamiliar terms" instead of "terms".
Issue 05: 4.1 Good Practice A "Use cases" was too specific.
Resolved: Take out "by the variety of use cases"
Issue 06: reviews of 2.1 Good Practice C
Karl will merge the two rewrites into the document.
Issue 07: Reference to TestGL to be removed.
Issue 08: Examples given by Jeremy Carroll for DOV
Will use his example/story
Issue 11: Not strong enough about mandatory modules.
Patrick will rewrite.
Issue 13: Numbering schemes
QAH - sequential
Thursday, 28 October, PM
Discussion of Principles that seem to be non-testable. See raw minutes for details.
Friday, 29 October, AM
Specifications Guidelines issues processing
Issue 09: David's Marston answer to the TAG about versioning
AI-20041029-01 - Dom to review and recommend disposition
Issue 12: Mandatory Modules in Vis
AI-20041029-02 - Dom to incorporate ideas regarding core modules into later version of ViS
SpecGL Review Techniques and Examples
See raw minutes for details.
Teleconferences are moved to Wednesdays. Next call 10 November. Set up special
telecom for Last Call.
Next F2F : during Tech Plenary - week of 28 Feb.
Many thanks to Andrew and the Open Group for excellent meeting facilities,
providing refreshments/lunch and for the good weather.
Summary of action items
Here is a list of all action items from the raw minutes.
Actual content of the items had to be guessed in cases where the scribe had used vague term such as "X to do it" or "Y to write something"...
- AI-20041027-01: Lofton to find a replacement name for "principles" in QAH
- AI-20041027-02: Lofton to break down larger statements
- AI-20041027-03: Lofton to make sub topics inside Good Practice have consistent names between QAH & SpecGL
- AI-20041028-01: Lynne and Mark to re-write technique for determining a conformance model to reflect "what does it mean" by Nov. 5, 2004.
- AI-20041028-02: Karl to create Wiki topic to address the issues involved in normative references by Nov. 4, 2004.
- AI-20041028-03: Karl to write principle and good practice on normative references, including time considerations, super setting or sub setting, and breaking conformance by Nov. 4, 2004.
- AI-20041028-04: Patrick will re-write section on mandatory modules by 12 noon, Oct. 28, 2004.
- AI-20041028-05: Karl to create Wiki topic to address the issues involved in normative references by Nov. 4.
- AI-20041028-06: Karl to write principle and good practice on normative references, including time considerations, super setting or sub setting, breaking conformance by Nov. 4.
- AI-20041028-07: Karl to draft a template of someone conforming to SpecGL
- AI-20041028-08: Lofton to review conformance clause template to ensure that it's in
sync with SpecGL. Also, ensure that SpecGL references to the conformance
clause template are informative rather than normative. Due 11/21.
- AI-20041028-09: Dom to ask mailing-list about suggestions for "further reading" section
- AI-20041028-10: Dom to draft concepts section in the Introduction, addressing issue of spec type (umbrella, collective, etc). Due 11/12
- AI-20041028-11: Karl to create graphics to illustrate umbrella spec. Due 11/12
- AI-20041028-12: Karl to raise issue of "umbrella spec" to the Advisory Board after our next publication (nov 18?)
- AI-20041029-01: Dom to review and recommend disposition of DM's answer to the TAG about versioning
- AI-20041029-02: Dom to incorporate ideas regarding core modules into later version of ViS
- AI-20041029-03: Karl to do consistency check of terms in SpecGLTechniques and Examples, including ToC
- AI-20041029-04: [Spec 1.1B] Karl to redraft and draw the diagram for Ruby
- AI-20041029-05: [Spec 1.2B] Lofton and Dom to rewrite indicating both aspects - what goes into the ICS and how to automatically generate it from the markup
- AI-20041029-06: Lynne to merge techniques of SpecGL 2.1A and 2.1B
- AI-20041029-07: [Spec 2.1C] Karl to remove 2nd paragraph. Revise 1st paragraph.
- AI-20041029-08: [Spec 3.1A] Karl to Add technique to use markup to define terms
- AI-20041029-09: [Spec 1.2A] Lynne to revise and create template
- AI-20041029-10: [Spec 3.2A] Karl to define a kind of stylistic template for the conformance requirements
- AI-20041029-11: [Spec 4.1D] Lynne to clarify what it means to write the rules for profiles? Also, send rules for profiles written for healthcare
- AI-20041029-12: [Spec 4.2A] Lynne to revise
- AI-20041029-13: [Spec 4.2A] Karl to fix example wording
- AI-20041029-14: [Spec 4.2B] Karl to Remove CSS2 example
- AI-20041029-15: [Spec 4.2C] Karl to Remove GP and distribute into other GPs
- AI-20041029-16: [Spec 4.3B] Karl to rework
- AI-20041029-17: [Spec 4.3B] Karl to review all techniques with questions
- AI-20041029-18: [Spec] Lynne to rewrite 4.3C
- AI-20041029-19: [Spec] Dom to rewrite 4.4B
- AI-20041029-20: [Spec 4.4C] Dom to rewrite 1- to keep only 1st sentence, remove 2- and 3-
- AI-20041029-21: [Spec 4.5A] Dom to rewod 1, identify failures and define error messages, reword 2- and make 3- a technique (?)
- AI-20041029-22: [Spec 5.1A] Dom to rewrite it about the publishing process (not quality control). Karl to review
- AI-20041029-23: [Spec 5.2E] Dom to write - Use formal languages