Re: CFC - Proposed definition for 'Programatic Notification'

The link in the CFC is going the the wrong SC. It is for Change of Content
not Purpose of controls.

https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#purpose-of-controls

It should be
https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#change-of-content


I think we have to throw this CFC thread out and reissue it. It has caused
terrible confusion.

Cheers,
David MacDonald



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On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 3:25 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> I seems that running this CFC definition when it is disassociated from the
> SC to which it applies has caused confusion.
>
>
> >  @jonathanThe definition seems to allow for using the speech API in a
> browser to speak something.  This type of “announcement” may work for some
> users but doesn’t seem like a solution that works for different types of
> users with disabilities.  A programmatic notification should be something
> that could be converted into different formats – speech, braille, pop-up,
> vibration, etc.  If I am misunderstanding then I’d be happy to change my
> vote.
>
> This SC is all about helping those screen reader users. It has been that
> from the beginning. It's a narrow and important  requirement
> ​ and it was approved on that basis​
> .
> ​The main way of meeting it is using aria-live. I'm kind of surprised
> we're talking about widening the SC like this at this late date.
>
> Widening
> ​ it ​to other types of notifications would be a real change to it and how
> would that be worded?
>
> > @Steve
> What is needed is a programmatic association given to the new content.
>
> t
> ​hat's in the first bullet.
>
>    - There is a programmatically determined relationship between the new
>    content and the control that triggers it;
>
> ​
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902 <(613)%20235-4902>
>
> LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
> twitter.com/davidmacd
>
> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>
>
>
> *  Adapting the web to all users*
> *            Including those with disabilities*
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Repsher, Stephen J <
> stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com> wrote:
>
>> -1
>>
>> I agree with Jonathon, and would add that his point is enforced by saying
>> “announced”, which is biased towards certain users.  It also uses
>> “notification” in the definition which is a practice we should avoid.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ultimately, I think the real solution here is to reword the SC to not use
>> such a term.  “Programmatic notification” implies (and the definition
>> doesn’t help) that content beyond the “change of content” is needed, but
>> that is not the case.  What is needed is a programmatic association given
>> to the new content.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also find the shopping cart example confusing because it seems like
>> that is exempt by being the result of a user action.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m sorry I missed reviewing this in detail on the survey.  This all
>> needs further discussion in my opinion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jonathan Avila [mailto:jon.avila@levelaccess.com]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:25 PM
>> *To:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> *Subject:* RE: CFC - Proposed definition for 'Programatic Notification'
>>
>>
>>
>> -1.  The definition seems to allow for using the speech API in a browser
>> to speak something.  This type of “announcement” may work for some users
>> but doesn’t seem like a solution that works for different types of users
>> with disabilities.  A programmatic notification should be something that
>> could be converted into different formats – speech, braille, pop-up,
>> vibration, etc.  If I am misunderstanding then I’d be happy to change my
>> vote.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Joshue O Connor [mailto:josh@interaccess.ie <josh@interaccess.ie>]
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 1:06 PM
>> *To:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> *Subject:* CFC - Proposed definition for 'Programatic Notification'
>>
>>
>>
>> Call For Consensus — ends Friday October 6th at 1:00pm Boston time.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Working Group has a new proposed definition of "Programmatic
>> Notification" as found in the Change of Content SC.
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#purpose-of-controls
>>
>> The DFN text is:
>>
>> <dfn>
>> Programmatic notification.
>>
>> Notification set by the content which can be announced to the user
>> without virtual or actual focus, using methods that are supported by user
>> agents, including assistive technologies.
>>
>> Example: a screen reader announces to a user that their shopping cart has
>> been updated after they select an item for purchase.
>> </dfn>
>>
>> And can be viewed here: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/
>> commit/b5c68e17f82feb0cdbbafc273f245b136a7445c4
>>
>>
>>
>> This was discussed on todays call: https://www.w3.org/2017/10/03-
>> ag-minutes.html#item09
>>
>> This definition was previously missing from WCAG 2.1 and the proposal is
>> to add it.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have not
>> been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you “not
>> being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know before
>> the CfC deadline.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
>> Joshue O Connor
>> Director *| InterAccess.ie *
>>
>
>