Meeting minutes
Announcements
maryjom: We are making progress on pull requests
daniel-montalvo: figuring it out
<ShawnT> I can help with that
daniel-montalvo: wait for next week
maryjom: Progress on getting includes to be incorporated in doc
shawnT: Now available, just need to start adding
shawnT: meeting tomorrow morning to discuss, then will fix
maryjom: Background section text now incorporated. 1.3.5 in progress with Chris.
Chuck: Calendar that is hyperdraft working on. Will be published at some point. Milestone: presenting three results post Feb-9th.
Standup for self-assigned work
<maryjom> https://
maryjom: Good progress. A few more ready to review. Just opened survey, email sent yesterday - due next week.
maryjom: Want to focus on 2.1 items first
maryjom: Titles don't show WCAG version. Tags help separate view.
<bruce_bailey> very nice to multiple views !
maryjom: Take up 2.1 items first
<bruce_bailey> +1 for 2.1 before 2.2
<Chuck> +1 to Phil's help!
maryjom: Keep focus on 2.1 todo items
Bruce_bailey: Moved todo to in progress!
maryjom: Mostly everything is in review. I'm working on glossary. Will need to see it works well with SC.
maryjom: Proposed definitions that go with the new ones.
Discussion: Readiness of SC 2.1.4 proposal to incorporate into editor's draft
maryjom: Getting closer.
<maryjom> https://
<maryjom> https://
maryjom: Greg went in and commented the options. Made quick proposal as well as some text changes.
<maryjom> Link to gregg's comment: w3c/
<maryjom> Note: The task force interpreted that the "turn off shortcut" option in the SC included both turning off an individual shortcut or a mechanism that turned off all shortcuts.
maryjom: We were discussing potential for eliminating notes and replacing with Gregg's note
maryjom: Comment note not needed
<Mike_Pluke> +1 to the note not being needed
bryantrogdon: How did we land on 2 seconds?
maryjom: Sam was noting length of time
<Zakim> as, you wanted to what is "current"
sam: comes from section 508 and EN, 2 second delay
<Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask about new issue for definition?
bruce_bailey: concur with summary. Open issue for modifying a definition.
maryjom: at very end of comments Sam summarized
<maryjom> Note: Long press of a key is not considered a keyboard shortcut. See the keyboard shortcut definition for more details.
<maryjom> Definition for keyboard shortcut, add a note: NOTE A key command issued by a long press of a key (2 seconds or more) is not considered a keyboard shortcut. Such commands often occur when there are limited keys, or no modifier keys, present on a device.
<Sam> Reference on where the 2 second delay came from: EN 301 549 5.7 S508 407.4 https://
<Laura_B_Miller> The 2 second rule in Section 508 is 407.4 Key Repeat (as per Sam's reference)
chuck: definitions are normative. Make sure our definitions are not dependent on normative definitions. Any changes to anything normative we need to be cautious.
<bruce_bailey> Here is the 508 ref (for two seconds): https://
<bruce_bailey> Where a keyboard with key repeat is provided, the delay before the key repeat feature is activated shall be fixed at, or adjustable to, 2 seconds minimum.
maryjom: Gregg's note. Could be clear in saying "the task force interpreted"
Chuck: in that case, that would not be a normative change. Taskforce recommendations would not have dependencies.
maryjom: Make sure that we talk about our interpretation
Philday: likes idea of glossary. Doing by individual SC there might be definitions we want to refer to multiple times.
<Mike_Pluke> +1 to just doing it in interpretation - it is the correct approach in my view
<Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to where to put note?
bruce_bailey: comes out of using WCAG for hardware. Keep issue open until finding best way. Don't know now the best way to call out nuance.
maryjom: Think we should call it out, interpretation of what a keyboard shortcut is not. Might need to tweak language. We could open up an issue on considering definition in future.
<maryjom> Note: Long press of a key is not considered a keyboard shortcut. See the keyboard shortcut definition for more details.
maryjom: should we tweak the note?
<maryjom> Note: The WCAG2ICT interpretation is that a long press of a key is not considered a keyboard shortcut. See the keyboard shortcut definition for more details.
Mike_Pluke: softer approach more correct. Safest within context of working within W3C
<maryjom> Poll: Do you agree with the above note?
<FernandaBonnin> +1 to the above note
+1
<PhilDay> +1
<ShawnT> +1
<BryanTrogdon> +1
<Devanshu> +1
<ThorstenKatzmann> +1
<Mike_Pluke> +1
<Sam> +1
<bruce_bailey> +1 but put "keyboard shortcut first"
ChrisLoiselle: agree, but in regard to keyboard shortcuts has the opposite approach been looked at like sticky keys?
bruce_bailey: We need to wordsmith a little more
maryjom: Gregg's proposed text also had terms with potential change
<ChrisLoiselle> +1 to Bruce on global definition and having children type issues adopt the terms used in glossary from a global perspective.
<maryjom> Gregg's text included "before activation"
<bruce_bailey> Note: The WCAG2ICT interpretation is that WCAG definition of keyboard shortcut does included a long press of a key or other accessibility features provided by the platform. See the keyboard shortcut definition for more details.
maryjom: Do we need to have 2 seconds or more in definition?
<Chuck> +1
<Devanshu> +1 to just definition
<PhilDay> Alternative to Bruce's : Note: The WCAG2ICT interpretation is that the WCAG definition of keyboard shortcut does not include a long press of a key (2 seconds or more) or other accessibility features provided by the platform. See the keyboard shortcut definition for more details.
<bruce_bailey> +1
<PhilDay> +1 on adding the missing "a"!
<maryjom> +1
<Laura_B_Miller> +1 to philday text
<Sam> +1 to Phil + a
<Mike_Pluke> +1
<bruce_bailey> i think that address Chris concern for sticky keys and the like
+1 to Phil
<ThorstenKatzmann> +1
<ShawnT> +1
<ChrisLoiselle> +1
<FernandaBonnin> +1
<BryanTrogdon> +1
<maryjom> NOTE A key command issued by a long press of a key (2 seconds or more) is not considered a keyboard shortcut. Such commands often occur when there are limited keys, or no modifier keys, present on a device.
<bruce_bailey> https://
<bruce_bailey> alternative means of triggering an action by the pressing of one or more keys
maryjom: is note efficient or do we need to add on?
<Chuck> You answered my question, this is in WCAG2ICT definitions.
Philday: say at top of definitions section so we do not have to say at each term
<bruce_bailey> thanks for reminder how it works in present version of wcag2ict
maryjom: Glossary Items definition and we do the same with SCs. In that context, we may be able to just add the note.
<maryjom> NOTE A key command issued by a long press of a key (2 seconds or more) is not considered a keyboard shortcut. Such commands often occur when there are limited keys, or no modifier keys, present on a device.
<bruce_bailey> https://
<maryjom> Add above note to the WCAG2ICT definition with (additional guidance section) for Keyboard shortcut
bruce_bailey: Was the way we did it before not prominent enough?
maryjom: have not had that feedback
bruce_bailey: the WCAG 2.0 was complicated, we ended up not adopting at all verses nuance
mike_pluke: The only definitions that caused problems are what bruce referred to. Not recalling other problems.
Philday: think it works well how it is clearly stated in definition section. Do need softening on each clause.
<maryjom> Poll: Indicate whether the note previously posted by Mary Jo is sufficient to add to the definition.
<PhilDay> +1
<FernandaBonnin> +1
<Devanshu> +1
<ThorstenKatzmann> +1
<Laura_B_Miller> +1
<bruce_bailey> +1
+1
<BryanTrogdon> +1
<maryjom> +1
<Sam> +1
<ShawnT> +1
mike_pluke: +1
<maryjom> Draft RESOLUTION: Incorporate this SC into the document with the three polled changes.
<maryjom> Draft RESOLUTION: Incorporate SC 2.1.4 into into the document with the polled changes above.
<maryjom> Removing current proposal's 2 notes. Replace with the new (edited) note above, and note to the definition.
<maryjom> Removing current proposal's 2 notes. Replace with the new (edited) note above, and add note to the definition.
<bruce_bailey> +1
<PhilDay> +1
<Devanshu> +1
<ThorstenKatzmann> +1
<Sam> +1
+1
<BryanTrogdon> +1
<Laura_B_Miller> +1
<ChrisLoiselle> +1
<PhilDay> Verbal +1 from Mike Pluke
<maryjom> mike_pluke: +1
<FernandaBonnin> +1
<ShawnT> +1
RESOLUTION: Incorporate SC 2.1.4 into the document with the polled changes above.
<bruce_bailey> this was worth time, pattern will happen again
<Chuck> +1 to Bruce's observation!
maryjom: 1.4.12 next week
<maryjom> w3c/
<maryjom> Link to Loic's proposed changes above.
<PhilDay> Thanks all - and to Olivia for scribing
<bruce_bailey> +1