Meeting minutes
<Lauriat> https://
Preview of next week
Lauriat: AG will meet this coming Tuesday
Lauriat: However, no Silver call next Friday
Review homework: more general outcomes with specific user needs by disability
Lauriat: specificuser needs by disability
Makoto: may have taken a different approach
Makoto: reviewed main functional needs and user needs docs
Makoto: stuck to 7 types of images enumerated by WAI tutorials
Makoto: wrote outcomes re alt text
Makoto: also tried writing methods
Makoto: notes he does a11y audits for clients
Makoto: have been collating rankings from that work on an annual basis; collating in reports for common issues
Makoto: Suggesting use of alt decision tree
<Makoto> https://
Makoto: suggesting outcomes and methods for the 7 image types can be derived from the decision tree
<jeanne> Alt Decision Tree
[people are looking at Makoto's doc]
Chuck: lots to absorb here
Chuck: Very excellent! Need to review to comment, but really looks great
Lauriat: agree; particular articulation of user needs
<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say the link to the user needs
jeanne: like the clear tie to user needs in the methods
jeanne: Believe this demonstrates taking functional needs from that articulated doc; then generate userneeds followed by specific methods
Makoto: not sure whether this approach will work for other criteria
<Chuck> +1 on "mind changing" :-)
jeanne: Like how we can go directly to user needs from the functional
Lauriat: this can also inform other parts of our spec; e.g. common images like print
Lauriat: could even support image recognition generated alt for common images
<Chuck> ack
JenStrickland: trying to understand our assignment
Lauriat: yes, believe decision tree can be extended to support this beyond alt
<JenStrickland> Ah, yes! Thank you, Lauriat, the tree is great!
<Lauriat> https://
Lauriat: walks through an example of how that might work ...
Lauriat: even to ACT style decisioning
Lauriat: e.g. two phone numbers one with a fax icon, the other with a phone icon
kirkwood: think it's fantastic; but we may have something not covered
kirkwood: conveying meaning e.g. safety protocols of inserting electrical plug into an outlet in different countries
kirkwood: good description could be a safety issue
<Lauriat> +1, great example of criticality of accuracy
<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to explore that with AI
Lauriat: believe there may be ways to support this
Lauriat: one image might be what not to do while another is what to do
Lauriat: user could ask questions to get detail from AI
Lauriat: provides keyword results along with confidence scores
<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to ask Makoto if he has addressed this
Lauriat: so park with people and buildings in the background would likely start with park, but could be queried "are there people?"
<kirkwood> well done Makoto
jeanne: asking makoto whether has considered where criticality fits?
<Lauriat> Maybe an example of the decision tree that leads to "complex images": https://
Makoto: same image can have different meanings in different contexts
<kirkwood> wether author intent is present or not? is very important
jeanne: think challenge that user need in method may be informative; but criticality may need to be normatively specified
jeanne: or a second outcome
Lauriat: believe criticality already fits in the tree; see above link
<Chuck> +1 to "it fits"
Lauriat: documentation would explain how
kirkwood: would want to be satisfied that author intent is captured in the process
<Lauriat> +1 to that example of maturity of process to reliably achieve the outcome
<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to note the decision tree example
SuzanneTaylor: did a similar approach in my homework
<SuzanneTaylor> https://
SuzanneTaylor: phps the user needs
SuzanneTaylor: guidelines high level
SuzanneTaylor: outcomes focussed on type of audio
<kirkwood> just requested access
<SuzanneTaylor> https://
SuzanneTaylor: then user needs become very specific and include functional needs
SuzanneTaylor: then the methods become very specific for specific tech
<Chuck> I am denied
Lauriat: thanks Suzanne for walking through her examples; very helpful
jeanne: allows detailed info to be included as informative
SuzanneTaylor: should help innovaters by describing goals
<Lauriat> +1, I really like that start-with-an-ideal approach
SuzanneTaylor: believe we could inspire and direct innovation
Lauriat: starting from that point provides a structured approach to the research that's needed
Lauriat: so that takes us away from what html does today which is very important
<SuzanneTaylor> +1
<jeanne> +1
+1
<Makoto> +1
jeanne: believe we should present both approaches to AGWG
jeanne: notes we eventually come back to an outcome
jeanne: but original task was to get rid of outcomes
jeanne: so AGWG feedback would be helpful for choosing a WCAG3 direction
<Rachael> +1
Lauriat: believe that's a good next step; audio example with decision tree would help with that presentation
jeanne: asks suzanne for example decision tree
<Lauriat> Closest I can find, maybe a good starting point
SuzanneTaylor: yes; for each user need? or to decide which user need?
jeanne: probably for which would be appropriate for which method
jeanne: makoto's allows choosing which method
<Lauriat> Excellent, thank you!
jeanne: believes we're scheduled to present this on Tuesday 6 December; so have a little time
jeanne: requests to move