<jamesn> agendabot, get agenda
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<agendabot> clear agenda
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<jamesn> agendabot, help
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<jamesn> agendabot, agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2020Oct/0006.html
<agendabot> clear agenda
<StefanS> presnt+
<jamesn> /me present+
<scribe> scribe: msumner
jamesn: what do we think about
not needing aria-controls on comboboxes until the popup is
rendered?
... will submit a PR for 1.3 to clarify
... discussion about has-popup (issue #1333)
carmacleod: I'll do the update/issue
jamesn: we need a call for consensus for ARIA 1.3. It's coming soon. A few days behind 1.2, probably. Just be aware.
jamesn: first PR is #1335, needs some more work for aria-controls, agree with carmacleod's comments
carmacleod: it needs another reviewer too
Matt_King: do we have a way to add parenthetical?
jamesn: no, that would be a lot of extra scripting work. We might need to work around it.
Matt_King: the people who write validators (hopefully) look at every text change
jamesn: next is #1332, aria-setsize and aria-posinset
jcraig: volunteers to be the third reviewer on it
Matt_King: is this a change to fallback section that talks about what UA should do?
carmacleod: no it's changing the prose for both attribute
jcraig: there are also some new author MUSTS
carmacleod: I came up with something to answer "what should UA do?", UA could fallback to aria-setsize to -1
<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1332
carmacleod: but if setsize is set without posinset? what then? maybe set it to 1?
Matt_King: I think UA should try
to calculate position
... it would be good to reflect the position of where you are
in the DOM, even if the count resets then you could maybe
figure out what's going on
jcraig: I just approved it but then I thought about what is required- we should tweak language to reflect what is required
(group discussion about how to make a suggestion in a code review)
Matt_King: I'm unclear, if aria-setsize is on the container, is it necessary to specify posinset on all the items?
clarifying: in the PR I'm just trying to say "if one is used then both should be used", not use cases in which they should be used or not
StefanS: it really should be there if the whole list isn't shown, though
Matt_King: I have some disagreement about usage- if you load only a portion and only add, not remove, do you still need to have both?
jcraig: we could infer posinset if we're only adding- but what if things are added to the beginning of the list
group discussion: seems like a lot of folks do this now, seems common
jamesn: why do we need to put it
on everything, why can't we just put it on the first thing and
then browsers can calculate it?
... maybe this should be 1.4...
Matt_King: my experience is that you probably generate this for one thing and then all of them are generated
carmacleod: I think we've been saying something incorrect. setsize is supposed to be on all of them too.
jcraig: that was in the context of multi-level lists, I think. sometimes you might be displaying a sublevel but not the entirety of the upper level list. so you couldn't infer it in all contexts.
jamesn: with grids, we put rowcount on the grid, which isn't consistent with how we do setsize
question: do we have room to modify this in 1.3?
jamesn: we could potentially modify it in both
Matt_King: my bigger problem with
this is that we only have one place where we require the UA to
calculate it, in all other places it's optional
... this is on the 1.3 comment role. this is why we have two
different versions in our tree view author's guide
jamesn: what I'm hearing is that we have this "simple" pull request but we have some bigger issues we should log for 1.4
jcraig: I'm leaning towards
pushing the change to 1.4
... if we make this change we will have to update a lot of
prose to indicate to authors really clearly how to do this
properly
jamesn: we'd need to specify how to do this for sub-levels (esp trees)
(general discussion about lists vs trees and support for these properties)
Matt_King: i want to go back to the author correcting thing that Carolyn was referring to
jamesn: can you put the suggestion in the PR please?
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1332
Matt_King: agrees
<Zakim> carmacleod, you wanted to say that https://w3c.github.io/aria/#aria-setsize says This property is marked on the members of a set, not the container element that collects the
jamesn: so TPAC is coming up, I don't know who has received emails or not. If you've registered you've started to receive them
<jamesn> ------------------------------------------Registration------------------------------------------Please register for all the TPAC sessions using the form below at least 3 business days before the beginning of each meeting :https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2020/Please note the system limitation (item #2 in the WBS) if you wish to register for more than one meeting. We apologize for the inconvenient user interface in this regard.
<jamesn> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/cJStvNov/image.png
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<jamesn> Please note the system limitation (item #2 in the WBS) if you wish to
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<jamesn> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/kAMK5zxZ/
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<jamesn> Joint Group Meetings Week
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<jamesn> See group meetings details and Zoom information on the Group schedule page:
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jamesn: no deep dive next week but we will have our regular meeting
<jamesn> ------------------------------------------
<jamesn> Call for TPAC Breakout sessions
<jamesn> ------------------------------------------
<jamesn> We remind you that the call for breakout sessions closes on 19 October.
<jamesn> It is an opportunity for everyone to propose, choose, and participate in breakout sessions on a wide variety of topics relating to W3C activities.
<jamesn> We are waiting for your ideas on our wiki!:
<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2020/SessionIdeas
<jamesn> Further details may found at:
<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/2020/10/TPAC/breakout-schedule.html
<jamesn> ------------------------------------------
<jamesn> Virtual hallway conversation
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<jamesn> Because TPAC is a way to meet with others, discuss and share ideas, we invite you to discover our virtual conversation space, available from 12 to 30 October.
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<jamesn> All the details available at:
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<jamesn> ------------------------------------------
<jamesn> Social Events
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<jamesn> Take a break and participate in our live sessions:
<jamesn> Monday 26 October: 13:30 - 13:50 UTC
<jamesn> Cooking demo: Wake up to Waffles!
<jamesn> Thursday 29 October: 13:30 - 13:50 UTC
<jamesn> Beginner-friendly yoga
<jamesn> Have a look at our social events page for more details:
<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/2020/10/TPAC/SocialEvent.html
Matt_King: please check for pre-reading
<Jemma> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WAI/ARIA_APG_Redesign/#ARIA_APG_Redesign
jamesn: Anyone submitting for TPAC?
jcraig: the joint meeting week seems to only be radio buttons? is this on purpose or a bug?
jamesn: it's a but but they've
also said they're not fixing it.
... it's a bug but they've also said they're not fixing it.
<Jemma> ;-)
jamesn: suggestion is to click the "Observer request with chair's agreement" checkboxes
MichaelC_: yes, that's correct
jamesn: no meaty topic for next
week because it's TPAC
... but we will be having this regular meeting next week
jamesn: first public draft of 1.3, will get call for consensus out in the next few days, probably early next week, so don't be surprised when it comes.
<Jemma> congratulations!
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/799
Matt_King: this PR we were
waiting for input from some of the UA representatives
... also I need to resolve some conflicts in the PR
jamesn: we need Aaron and FF folks to come up with a solution for this, or resolve with them whether they will do this or not
carmacleod: it's sort of rolled up into the checked/selected discussion
Matt_King: let's be clear, this is a narrowly scoped pre-req
sarah_higley: it would effectively get rid of selection following focus, wouldn't it?
jcraig: that may or may not be true depending on the implementation
sarah_higley: if we got rid of the default value - that would change a lot of default browser behavior and then selection wouldn't follow focus
jamesn: aaron thinks we can get rid of it w/o consequence
Matt_King: if we don't change this , how would we handle the other (checked and selected together)
Matt, Sarah and Aaron will come back to the group with some thoughts after they meet
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+no%3Aproject+sort%3Acreated-asc
jamesn: do we want to put
role=text on the 1.3 timeline?
... we have implementations
Matt_King: we might now be in a better place to have discussion about this issue, esp with Sina here
<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/870
Sina: Matt, should we discuss on a call or email?
Matt_King: look for role of static - it's commented out
jcraig: I'm familiar with this one, so I can take it, regardless of what milestone we assign it to
jamesn: it's role is text on the master branch, btw
<carmacleod> role="text" history: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/525#issuecomment-385694857
jcraig: are we certain it never shipped?
<Jemma> Before the meeting ends, here is APG/EO joint meeting info - Thursday Oct 15, 8:00 AM Pacific for 1 hour 45 minutes. I hope to see you all at the meeting. https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/Meetings/APG_EO_Joint
joanie: briefly, because jcraig and I re-wrote this a long time ago, but I'm not sure that's the latest revised version of it. I think we have role static branch instead that is the text that jcraig and I worked on
<carmacleod> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/role-static/#static
jcraig: can you add this link to the issue as well
carmacleod: yes will add to 870
<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/870
jamesn: ok thank you everyone! talk next week!
This is scribe.perl Revision of Date Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/it may or may not be true/that may or may not be true depending on the implementation/ Succeeded: s/jamesn: are we/jcraig: are we/ Present: pkra StefanS msumner jcraig jamesn sarah_higley Joanmarie_Diggs Stefan_Schnabel carmacleod MarkMccarthy Matt_King JaEunJemmaKu Sina Regrets: ScottOHara BryanGaraventa IrfanAli Found Scribe: msumner Inferring ScribeNick: msumner WARNING: Dash separator lines found. If you intended them to mark the start of a new topic, you need the -dashTopics option. For example: <Philippe> --- <Philippe> Review of Action Items Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2020Oct/0009.html WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]
