<scribe> scribenick: hknublau

<Dimitris> regrets for the meeting, unfortunately I won't make it today

<sandro> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues

<sandro> https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/

<sandro> https://github.com/w3c/webmention/blob/master/draft/index.html

admin

<TallTed> PROPOSED: Approve minutes of the 08 Mar 2017 Telecon: https://www.w3.org/2017/03/08-shapes-minutes.html

+1

<ipolikof> +1

<pano> +1

<sandro> +1

RESOLUTION: Approve minutes of the 08 Mar 2017 Telecon: https://www.w3.org/2017/03/08-shapes-minutes.html

Open Issues

<TallTed> issue-234?

<trackbot> issue-234 -- Public comment https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-shapes/2017Feb/0165.html -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/track/issues/234

TallTed: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-shapes/2017Mar/0004.html

<TallTed> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-234 as addressed by https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-shapes/2017Mar/0004.html; any continuing concerns to be raised as independent issues via github

+1

<ipolikof> +1

<sandro> +1

<pano> +!

<pano> +1

<dallemang> +1

RESOLUTION: Close ISSUE-234 as addressed by https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-shapes/2017Mar/0004.html; any continuing concerns to be raised as independent issues via github

GitHub Issues https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues

Problems editing SHACL with Protégé - https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/32

<sandro> hknublau: Protege stores RDF using OWLAPI, so if you load RDF and save it again, often it's changed

<sandro> dallemang: what about modifying protege?

<sandro> hknublau: There were some attempts 6 months ago

<sandro> hknublau: I spoke to maintainter, and they acknowledged the issue, but were not committing to addressing it

<sandro> dallemang: I've come across this problem with OWLAPI apart from SHACL, too

TallTed: Maybe we can add a disclaimer

<sandro> hknublau: Yes, problem with OWLAPI, when they switched away from frames

dallemang: From an adoption perspective this doesn't really help

<sandro> "I would recommend making all the properties that attach to Classes and Properties be annotation properties."

<sandro> (from commenter)

dallemang: by turning them into annotation properties we can tell OWL to be quiet

<sandro> hknublau: any 3rd party can make a file like this for protege; it will never load our namespace file

dallemang: We could turn that hint into a note to implementers

@sandro: why not put these changes into our own TTL file?

dallemang: I am concerned we are making adjustments to a standard just for one tool.

<sandro> hknublau: We'd have to remove domain & range, so it would be a change

TallTed: The use of RDFS/inferencing was topic of very long discussions in the past.

ack @sandro

@sandro: The commenter on GitHub should close the issue when satisfied, i.e. we should ask him

http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl/

Inclusion of sh:phase and sh:Phase - https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/35

<ipolikof> I have a hard stop today, will have to leave by 9am

pano: Shapes can be validated in different phases, e.g. test, production

@sandro: Workflow could also be handled via different files/graphs

hknublau: There could also be other dimensions, e.g. authors

TallTed: A possible response would be to "you can achieve this by doing XY", RDF allows combination of different namespaces.

Ambiguity in examples - https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/36

hknublau: this is about avoiding self-references, e.g. replace Person with School, Company or Address

TallTed: seems like a viable fix to just switch to something else

<sandro> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pulls

hknublau: I'll reject the two pull requests - filter shapes are outdated, Eric's change is tricky to merge at this stage and not essential.

Public comments

@sandro: Test methodology questions don't need to be addressed before CR

@sandro: We should collect the endorsements on a wiki page, and link it from CR transition

<sandro> "Intent to Implement" emails

<ipolikof> have to leave

<sandro> https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/Main_Page#Implementations

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-shapes/2017Mar/0034.html

@sandro: My impression is that different implementations may indeed produce different results

<sandro> hknublau: I'm keen on interop here, that's why we have test cases

TallTed: What is interoperability.
... the validation report is primarily for humans, less for machine actions
... therefore doesn't need to be 100% identical

@sandro: The syntax at least needs to be interoperable

dallemang: Expect Protege plugins etc to work with violation reports

@sandro: with a command line tool, you'd want "line numbers" in the TTL file

dallemang: I would use SPARQL to query data and results graph together

(Discussion about test format)

tracking comments

process toward CR

<TallTed> https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/CR-Transition-Request

@sandro: Dependencies met is often forgotten, but they look OK in SHACL.

scribe: looks good overall

<TallTed> trackbot, end meeting

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Default Present: hknublau, TallTed, pano, ipolikof, sandro, dallemang, !, Nicky
Present: hknublau TallTed pano ipolikof sandro dallemang ! Nicky
Regrets: Dimitris
Found ScribeNick: hknublau
Inferring Scribes: hknublau
Found Date: 15 Mar 2017
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/03/15-shapes-minutes.html
People with action items: