See also: IRC log
<allanj> Agenda+ Legibility and Readability and ???
<allanj> JimAllan+
<laura> I’m getting “Host has not yet Joined the meeting” when I try to connect to WebEx.
<AWK> +AWK
<scribe> scribe: jeanne
JA: Reminder to non-US participants that the US time will be different from world time. The meeting time will be the same in the US. It shouldn't be an issue.
JA: The publication has been
approved, and expect to be published around the 17th, before
CSUN.
... OT announcement: Jim Thatcher turns 80 this month. on the
25th. There will be at to-do in Austin on the 26th. Ask Jim if
you want more info.
... Thank you to Shawn for getting the publication ready to
publish!
JA: We can also take it to the list.
<shawn> Shawn is going to CSUN
<AWK> AWK is going to CSUN
Jeanne at CSUN
<shawn> EOWG is meeting Monday & Tuesday and welcomes visitors! (with Chairs permission)
<shawn> +1 for doing that on the list
JA: Wayne suggested that we look
at sessions and see if there are low-vision sessions that we
want to attend and bring info back to the group.
... also perhaps get together.
SLH: Invited to EOWG meeting. Get
chairs permission - Sharron Rush and Brent Bakken
... we will be at the Solamar Hotel. Great location, great
food.
<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_March_2016
JA: Jon is not here, but there was interesting discussion of contrast of transition state on Github. Whether a hover should be under WCAG.
<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/157
JS: what is the argument that WCAG doesn't apply?
JA: It seems to swing on the
definition of transitional states.
... there was an example of links seeming to disappear.
... that was an example of active state, not hover
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/blob/gh-pages/WC-UA-alignment
<AWK> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/WC-UA-alignment.html
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF_Open_Issues#Possible_User_Need_Modification
JA: I'm setting up a chart that lists the requirements and where they are addressed in WCAG and UAAG
<AWK> Needed to rename the file to include .html
JA: Action-39 looking at threads on the mailing list.
<shawn> thread view https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Mar/thread.html
WD: I think it was Jon who came up with the final user need from that discussion
<allanj> proposal: User Need: Users can see and operate all interface elements that are intended for users to see and operate. This includes when users have changed display settings such as text size, magnification level, and cursor size.
<laura> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Mar/0037.html
Laura: Jon added something after that.
<Wayne> User Need: Users can see and operate all interface elements that are intended for users to see and operate. This includes when users have changed display settings such as text size, magnification level, and cursor size.
<laura> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Mar/0038.html
JA: We want to add "pointers, cursors, and carats"
<shawn> User Need: Users can see and operate all interface elements that are intended for users to see and operate. This includes when users have changed display settings such as text size, magnification, and cursor.
SLH: We need to be more general. Maybe note need magnification "level" and also want to cover things like cursor shape.
WD: It isn't the cursor as much as the tooltip that obscures the active elments so you can't click the element.
LC: There are 3 examples in the wiki of screenshots of tooltips obscuring the active element.
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF_Open_Issues#Work_with_User_Settings
<allanj> User Need: Users can see and operate all interface elements that are intended for users to see and operate. This includes when users have changed display settings such as text size, magnification, and cursor.
JA: We can flesh it out with specific examples.
<allanj> +1
<laura> +1
<Wayne> +1
+1
RESOLUTION: add User Need: Users can see and operate all interface elements that are intended for users to see and operate. This includes when users have changed display settings such as text size, magnification, and cursor.
AWK: suggestions Users can see and operate all interactive interface elements. This includes when users have changed display settings such as text size, magnification, and cursor.
SLH: It goes beyond interactive. It can't obscure text.
WD: There are user interface elements that we don't get to see and operate.
AWK: I agree with what we want, I
am just trying to clarify wording.
... I thought the original wording excluded text.
SLH: I wouldn't think that text is an interface element.
AWK: It is a gray area in
WCAG.
... I think plain text is a non-interactive interface
element.
... anything that is available visually for the purpose of
reading or interaction, then users with low vision should be
able to read and interact without regard to the adaptations
such as text size, magnification, and cursor.
WD: Users are able to see and interact with all user interface elements
<shawn> see http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#seeing-all-interface-elements
<AWK> Users can view and, where applicable, interact with all content presented visually, including when users have changed display settings such as text size, magnification, and cursor appearance.
Anything that is available visually for the purpose of reading or interaction, then users with low vision should be able to read and interact without regard to the adaptations such as text size, magnification, and cursor.
<shawn> Shawn is OK with "interface elements" including static text and interactive elements
AWK: Do we want to also include
browser scroll bars. There are people who take them away.
... if you take them away, how do you interact and view all the
content.
JA: People create a box where the font fits in a specific size, so they remove the scroll bars. Then a user increases the font size, and then can't get to all the text.
LC: How about "control" instead of "operate". That would then include the scrollbar.
<allanj> andrew - Users can view and, where applicable, interact with all content presented visually, including when users have changed display settings such as text size, magnification, and cursor appearance.
WD: I like to stick with operate since it is closer to WCAG. I think the scrollbar is a different issue.
<shawn> previous: Users can see and operate all interface elements that are intended for users to see and operate.
SLH: It needs to be broader than content -- it includes the user interface for the browser.
<AWK> Users can view and, where applicable, interact with all content and user interface controls presented visually, including when users have changed display settings such as text size, magnification, and cursor appearance.
JA: Content is in the window, the browser interface elements are all around it.
+1
<allanj> +1
<shawn> -1 too complex
WD: I would like to add the
caret
... when you make the caret larger, it only is made thicker,
which then obscures the text that it is supposed to be
indicating position. See Jon's email
<shawn> the list is of examples, not intended to be comprehensive
AWK: it is the same problem with
the mouse cursor
... there is one point on the cursor that is really the focus
point, despite the size of the cursor. It's the same issue with
a thick caret indicator, the focus point is the left edge, the
center or the right edge. The user has to know.
<shawn> Users can view and interact with all interface elements presented visually
AWK: it includes "and user interface controls" because it would then cover the UAAG items like the scrollbars and browser controls.
<shawn> Users can view and interact with all content and interface elements presented visually
AWK: then we avoid the problem where people don't think of text as a user interface controls.
<wordsmithing to simplify the wording>
JA: Element implies content. Controls imply both user interface and content.
<shawn> Users can see and interact with all content and user interface controls presented visually
<shawn> Users can see and interact with all content and user interface controls presented visually, including when users have changed display settings such as text size, magnification, and cursor appearance.
+1
<allanj> =1
<laura> +1
<allanj> +1
<Wayne> =1
<AWK> +1
<shawn> +3/4
RESOLUTION: update previous resolution to: Users can see and interact with all content and user interface controls presented visually, including when users have changed display settings such as text size, magnification, and cursor appearance.
<shawn> https://www.w3.org/blog/2015/09/tpac-2016-dates-and-location-announced/
AWK: WCAG will be meeting at TPAC
in September. We will be talking about Extensions and would
like people to attend
... 19-23 September
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/CSUN]/CSUN/ Succeeded: s/EOWG is meeting Monday & Tuesday and welcomes visitors!/EOWG is meeting Monday & Tuesday and welcomes visitors! (with Chairs permission)/ Succeeded: s/ Brent @@/ Brent Bakken/ Succeeded: s/final user need/final user need from that discussion/ Succeeded: s/Maybe magnification level and cursor shape./Maybe note need magnification "level" and also want to cover things like cursor shape./ Succeeded: s/read and interact without .../read and interact without regard to the adaptations such as text size, magnification, and cursor./ Found Scribe: jeanne Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne Present: shawn jeanne Jim AWK Laura wayne Regrets: JohnR Erich Found Date: 09 Mar 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/03/09-lvtf-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]