See also: IRC log
<eprodrom> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-23
<cwebber2> (but I'm still dialing in)
<wilkie> I accidentally scheduled a meeting for now but it only lasted 1 minute
<eprodrom> Can anyone scribe for this meeting?
<eprodrom> scribenick: dmitriz
<cwebber2> dialed in
<eprodrom> https://www.w3.org/2008/04/scribe.html
<wilkie> also https://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html
<eprodrom> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-16-minutes
<eprodrom> PROPOSED: approve minutes for 2016-02-16
<eprodrom> +1
<azaroth> +1
<tsyesika> +1
<dromasca> +1
<cwebber2> +1
<bengo> +1
<wilkie> +1
RESOLUTION: approve minutes for 2016-02-16
<eprodrom> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-03-16
<Loqi> Cwebber2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97595&oldid=97594
<Loqi> Sandro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/DocumentStatus]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97597&oldid=0
eprodrom: I'd like to recommend
that people pay special attention to — we have a face-to-face
meeting at MIT, on Mar 16. Please let us know if you're
participating.
... add an RSVP to that page whether you can or cannot make it
(or if you can make it remotely). We will have remote
participation
... if remote, we expect you to be at a computer, with a
microphone, as usual.
<shevski> where exactly do we rsvp?
<wilkie> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-03-16
<wilkie> there ^
eprodrom: question is - where do we rsvp?
<shevski> thx
<eprodrom> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-03-16#Participation
<dromasca> will this be a full one day mtg?
<wilkie> two days
eprodrom: there is a section called 'Participation' on the page. edit the wiki to put your name is.
<dromasca> 3/16,17
eprodrom: couple more questions.
This is a full 2-day meeting, Mar 16 and 17
... we are just starting to put together the agenda for this
meeting
... the two big agenda items are: 1) taking AS2 to CR
(Candidate Recommendation)
... and the next is: 2) determining the goals and next steps
for our other documents
(webmention, micropub, activitypub, social protocols, and any other outstanding FPWDs that we have)
eprodrom: we are about 9 months
away from the end of our charter
... and so now is a good time for getting an idea of what we
can do with the other deliverables
... there'll be some fine point discussion of AS2
... and also some fine point discussion of the other documents,
to sketch out a roadmap for the next 9 months or beyond
... any other questions about the Mar 16 event?
... no questions, lets move on
eprodrom: there are 3 big things
we need to do to take AS2 to CR
... 1) resolve outstanding issues.
... according to James - Arnaud, do you want to take it?
Arnaud: no, go ahead
eprodrom: James is happy where
the document is. And would like to take it to another Working
Draft, which is what we would be discussing at our face to
face
... overall, we've had some new issues in the last couple of
weeks, most of them either fine points or very general
points
... but there's no blocking issues, work can move forward
... actually, the one big blocking issues that we do have is —
conformance
... which is in my corner right now
... I'll be coordinating the next few days with James, to make
sure we get the conformance section into the doc
... I'll need to set up a PR, and make sure we get that section
in there
... before the next working draft
... the next big point for AS2 is:
... 2) Test suite
... we have two sides to the test suite
... one is - test documents. 100+ docs, useful for someone who
is trying to parse ActivityStreams
... this seems to be at a stable point, there is one PR to pull
in the docs from James (I'll be working on that the next few
days)
<eprodrom> https://github.com/w3c-social/activitystreams-test-documents
eprodrom: we're looking for other
AS2 documents
... the other side, that's under active development is the
Validator
<eprodrom> https://github.com/w3c-social/activitystreams-validator
eprodrom: I'm continuing work on
it, but looking for more participation there
... the validator is pretty basic right now, basically giving a
+1 / -1 on docs.
<wilkie> I got it up and running and have been looking at it
eprodrom: should be providing finer points / feedback on the spec, in addition
<eprodrom> https://github.com/w3c-social/activitystreams-validator/issues/11
eprodrom: I'd like it to be showing a hierarchy of different kinds of notes or warnings on the AS2 docs posted
<wilkie> cool
eprodrom: is it providing the right MIME Type, are there missing recommended properties, are there non-recommended properties present, that sort of thing
<Loqi> Sandro made 5 edits to [[Socialwg/DocumentStatus]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97606&oldid=97597
<Loqi> Sandro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97602&oldid=97595
<Loqi> Kmarks2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-03-16]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97599&oldid=97593
<Loqi> Dromasca made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-03-16]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97604&oldid=97599
eprodrom: my two big things over
the next few weeks are: 1) to get conformance section added
asap, and 2) get the validator to be a much more useful tool
for implementors
... hopefully it'll be ready by the March 16 meeting
... any questions about AS2.0, and where we are?
... test suite, conformance, etc?
bengo: I filed an issue on AS2
validator
... the question is - are AS1 documents valid for AS2?
... we have a few AS1 docs, should they be added to the test
repos?
eprodrom: I can't say 100% on this, but my understanding is that we are NOT maintaining backwards compat with 1.0
<wilkie> that's my understanding too
eprodrom: so those AS1 docs would not be valid
<bengo> https://github.com/w3c-social/activitystreams-test-documents/issues/3
eprodrom: the only role that AS1.0 docs would play in any sort of validation process, is — we do use Content-Type switching
<wilkie> they have a very different content type in the spec to assert that
<wilkie> yeah
eprodrom: so if you get the older
Content-Type, you'll know it's AS1, if newer, AS2
... and that'll be something worth taesting
... that said, there's probably some value in converting the
AS1 docs to AS2, and including them into the suite
bengo: I'll close the issue
eprodrom: your discussion about
tweets on the agenda — it's a little farther down, will be
discussed later today
... actually, we are at that point!
<bengo> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/283
bengo: this is relevant to what
my employer does
... social media aggregation from all the social
networks.
... the AS2 vocab is important to us for interop
... tweets are sort of the straw man, but any big Social Media
vocabs/schemas are relevant
... I know we talked briefly before about having some sort of
official registry
... I'm not sure how to proceed, curious what other people
think
... what domain / dns record should this extension live on, in
the long term, etc
... I don't want this to be something that only we use
KevinMarks: you don't need to
create a new magic thing for Twitter
... you can actually construct the URLs using the tweet IDs,
and use those as the AS2 object IDs
bengo: I'm hearing silence
Arnaud: same here
<bengo> URLs good for use case. Was thinking about that on the way home yesterday. Still doesnt solve for the larger registry use case
KevinMarks: aaa, forgot to unmute!
<wilkie> dmitriz: that's evan
eprodrom: ): ben has mentioned earlier that he understood that there are different ways to do this
KevinMarks: the fact that Twitter has relatively good URLs is useful
<eprodrom> dmitriz: that's me
KevinMarks: ben - why are the URLs not appropriate in this case?
<eprodrom> bengo
bengo: doesn't this require idiosyncratic handling for each of the big social network provider, to make the URLs?
<bengo> https://twitter.com/bengo/status/696429143659917312 or https://twitter.com/_/status/696429143659917312
<Loqi> @bengo :: #sb50 #rollingstonelive https://twitter.com/bengo/status/696429143659917312/photo/1
bengo: what about changing usernames? that changes the URLs
<bengo> KevinMarks: you're right I forgot
eprodrom: actually, Twitter does the right thing and does 301 redirects
<eprodrom> dmitriz: that was KevinMarks !
<KevinMarks> if you fetch https://twitter.com/activity-streams/status/696429143659917312 you get a 301 to https://twitter.com/bengo/status/696429143659917312/photo/1
<Loqi> @bengo :: #sb50 #rollingstonelive https://twitter.com/bengo/status/696429143659917312/photo/1
<eprodrom> He has the English accent; I sound like I live on the beach in San Diego
Rob: is there some other identity that's important to manage, aside from the twitter id?
bengo: for our particular use case, dereferencing to AS2 is less important
<tsyesika> It could be worth people saying who they are prior to speaking on the call to make it easier for the scribe
<KevinMarks> twitter published an oembed json alternte, they could add an as2 one if they felt like it
bengo: it's more important to publish and aggregate
<tsyesika> dmitriz: yes
eprodrom: we should do both
... use the twitter URL for ID, and also have a snowflake
property for twitter, in addition
... so I think your question is, "how do you specify what that
is? what the extension id is?"
<KevinMarks> twitter has a json alternative already in https://api.twitter.com/1/statuses/oembed.json?id=696429143659917312
<bengo> Draft extension on socialwg wiki?
<KevinMarks> which you cna follow your node to
eprodrom: it seems to me like
there's 2 possibilities. one is that we could have a property
within AS2, for something like vendor_id or alternative_id or
something like that
... which is non-iri, non-url id
<eprodrom> tweetID or snowflakeID
eprodrom: the other option is
that it's simply an extension, tweet_id or snowflake_id
... i would lean towards the second
... it makes more sense to me there
... ben, I think you were asking - what's the process for
actually defining those extensions?
bengo: yeah. and I agree with you
on the snowflakeID thing
... the question is - where is a good place to register that
extension vocab?
... for the moment, we can just host it on the W3C wiki, and
once there's an actual drafted extension, we can worry bout it
then
eprodrom: right, we can throw a
drafted extension pretty quickly on the wiki
... and there may be other properties of a tweet that might
need to go there
... it's a pretty important use case, and I think we should be
able to reach it
... ben, I guess what I'm asking is, would you mind starting a
Wiki page on this?
bengo: I don't mind, I will do that
eprodrom: awesome.
... what would be ideal is - being able to take something like
"anatomy of a tweet"
... no, that's not it
<bengo> https://dev.twitter.com/overview/api/tweets
eprodrom: there is a page on the
Twitter Developer site that shows taking Twitter's JSON step by
step, explaining what everything does
... we should be able to map those relatively directly to AS2
format
... and in places that we can't, there should be an extension
mechanism
bengo: sounds good
eprodrom: great, let's move on
eprodrom: aaron?
aaronpk: I've been working on incorporating issues on Micropub
<aaronpk> http://micropub.net/draft/
aaronpk: over on github. here's
the link to the latest draft with the changes
... basically, the changes are - updated the normative
references
... mistakenly made a bunch of them non-normative
... added a section on querying the source of posts, for
editing
... working on a couple other things, will have another draft
published for the next meeting
... please review GitHub issues and changes
... and file any CR-blocking issues sooner rather than
later
... so I can address them. I'd like to make a bunch of progress
this week
... any other questions
eprodrom: I have a general
question
... and leads to our next agenda item
eprodrom: the big thing that I'd
like to ask is - would you mind, over the next few days,
... thinking about what our next steps are, with MicroPub
... what's needed, what are the big outstanding issues, are
there problems
... and what do we do to take it to the next steps
... Arnaud and Sandro - is that what we're looking for?
Arnaud and Sandro: yes
eprodrom: so, we're looking for the next steps, with MP
<sandro> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/DocumentStatus
Sandro: I went ahead and made a
wiki page for the status of all our current docs
... if somebody has a better organization, that's fine
eprodrom: fantastic, that's
great, thank you for doing that, Sandro
... we'd like to start collecting the status
... we've had kind of an explosion of docs over the last couple
of months
... so now the question is - where are we taking them
next?
... so if we can update the status on the wiki, it'll help us
make decisions during the f-to-f
... any questions from the editors?
<cwebber2> *page
<cwebber2> that's aaron
<eprodrom> dmitriz: that's aaronpk
aaronpk: it occurred to me that I'd like to publish another draft, and I would like people to review the current draft
eprodrom: any other questions
from editors? if not, happy to move on with agenda
... no questions
... next, I'm gonna ask Chris and Jessica about federation
work
<tsyesika> I can
tsyesika: I've been working over
the last 1.5 years to bring federation to MediaGoblin
... to implement AS1.0 via Pump.io API
<cwebber2> https://identi.ca/mediagoblin/image/yCNd5dD-S8GL-DCwh50CPw <- mediagoblin federating TO pump.io!
<tsyesika> https://identi.ca/mediagoblin/image/yCNd5dD-S8GL-DCwh50CPw
<cwebber2> haha
<cwebber2> :D
tsyesika: last week, I had the first instance of federating media from MediaGoblin via Pump.io
<wilkie> yay
<cwebber2> ignore the ugly client screenshot... unthemed QT!
tsyesika: currently polishing it
up
... I've got receiving federated activities still to do
<cwebber2> but that's the pump api for client -> server, and then mediagoblin <-> pump.io, server to server federation
tsyesika: but shouldn't be too much work
<cwebber2> yes
eprodrom: couple of questions for
you -
... 1) how will AP be improved by your experience implementing
federation?
... 2) how will MediaGoblin make use of AP in the future?
tsyesika: I'm not sure about #1
<bengo> tsyesika: cwebber2: Is there a web sequence diagram for how this works? It would be helpful to refer to
tsyesika: a lot of the work has
just been based on going through and formalizing the various
aspects, trying to make the specs more concise
... but I think it was a very good foundation to base on
... as for question 2, my funding will be running out at
MediaGoblin,
... but I hope to continue working - I know Chris wants to
continue federation work
<cwebber2> bengo, there isn't, maybe I can do an ascii art version ;)
tsyesika: I'm hoping to get ActivityPub support when it's a littl emore mature
<tsyesika> I'm done :)
<bengo> cwebber2: I'd benefit from it! https://www.websequencediagrams.com/ is good too
eprodrom: thank you very much,
and congrats on the work, it's really impressive
... oh, last question - if people want to take a look at this
particular code,
... is it on the master branch?
tsyesika: no, not on master. I
have a fork of it
... that I use, so that the main repo doesn't get cluttered
up
... I'll make a push after the meeting, so that people can see
it
<tsyesika> absolutely
eprodrom: yeah, if you can push
it and share the branch on the channel or mailing list that'd
be really helpful
... fantastic, thank you very much
... that does take us to the end of our scheduled agenda
... we are a little more than 10 mins ahead of the hour
... this is the time where we go over issues from Tracker
... as I'm looking, we don't have any new or pending
issues
... but I do want to give a moment to see if we have any
updates on issues from Tracker
<tsyesika> https://notabug.org/Tsyesika/federated-mediagoblin/src/federation <- this will be where i'll push to
eprodrom: this is becoming less
and less frequent as we're moving our issue tracking to GitHub,
but it's worthwhile to still do it
... if not, open it up to any other questions or business we
need to discuss
... ok, unless there's anything else to discuss,
<tsyesika> I'll definitely do it this evening :)
eprodrom: — jessia, please push
soon AND take a hard drive backup! :) don't tempt fate
... otherwise I'd like to offer everyone their 10 mins
back
... and thanks Tantek for chairing the meeting
<eprodrom> trackbot, end meeting
<KevinMarks> ?
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