IRC log of social on 2016-02-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:01:30 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #social
18:01:30 [RRSAgent]
logging to
18:01:32 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
18:01:32 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #social
18:01:34 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SOCL
18:01:34 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
18:01:34 [aaronpk]
18:01:35 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
18:01:35 [trackbot]
Date: 23 February 2016
18:01:43 [eprodrom]
present+ eprodrom
18:01:55 [Arnaud]
18:02:18 [dmitriz]
18:02:20 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to: Next telcon: IRC logs:
18:02:21 [wilkie]
18:02:31 [cwebber2]
18:02:33 [eprodrom]
18:02:34 [cwebber2]
(but I'm still dialing in)
18:02:44 [wilkie]
I accidentally scheduled a meeting for now but it only lasted 1 minute
18:02:52 [azaroth]
azaroth has joined #social
18:02:53 [eprodrom]
Can anyone scribe for this meeting?
18:03:30 [azaroth]
Present+ Rob_Sanderson
18:03:52 [sandro]
18:03:54 [bengo]
bengo has joined #social
18:04:00 [shevski]
18:04:26 [bengo]
18:04:46 [dromasca]
dromasca has joined #social
18:05:08 [tsyesika]
18:05:10 [eprodrom]
scribenick: dmitriz
18:06:27 [cwebber2]
dialed in
18:06:40 [dromasca]
18:06:59 [eprodrom]
18:07:14 [wilkie]
18:07:40 [dmitriz]
18:07:56 [dmitriz]
TOPIC: Approval of last week's minutes
18:07:59 [eprodrom]
18:08:31 [eprodrom]
PROPOSED: approve minutes for 2016-02-16
18:08:35 [eprodrom]
18:08:41 [azaroth]
18:08:42 [tsyesika]
18:08:44 [KevinMarks]
18:08:45 [dromasca]
18:08:48 [cwebber2]
18:08:50 [bengo]
18:08:53 [wilkie]
18:09:06 [eprodrom]
RESOLVED: approve minutes for 2016-02-16
18:09:39 [dmitriz]
TOPIC: Admin issues
18:09:47 [eprodrom]
18:10:03 [Loqi]
Cwebber2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]]
18:10:04 [Loqi]
Sandro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/DocumentStatus]]
18:10:15 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: I'd like to recommend that people pay special attention to — we have a face-to-face meeting at MIT, on Mar 16. Please let us know if you're participating.
18:10:53 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: add an RSVP to that page whether you can or cannot make it (or if you can make it remotely). We will have remote participation
18:11:15 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: if remote, we expect you to be at a computer, with a microphone, as usual.
18:11:17 [shevski]
where exactly do we rsvp?
18:11:23 [wilkie]
18:11:27 [wilkie]
there ^
18:11:34 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: question is - where do we rsvp?
18:11:34 [shevski]
18:11:35 [eprodrom]
18:11:38 [dromasca]
will this be a full one day mtg?
18:11:46 [wilkie]
two days
18:11:48 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: there is a section called 'Participation' on the page. edit the wiki to put your name is.
18:12:05 [dromasca]
18:12:12 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: couple more questions. This is a full 2-day meeting, Mar 16 and 17
18:12:26 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: we are just starting to put together the agenda for this meeting
18:12:36 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: the two big agenda items are: 1) taking AS2 to CR (Candidate Recommendation)
18:12:49 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: and the next is: 2) determining the goals and next steps for our other documents
18:13:05 [dmitriz]
(webmention, micropub, activitypub, social protocols, and any other outstanding FPWDs that we have)
18:13:15 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: we are about 9 months away from the end of our charter
18:13:33 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: and so now is a good time for getting an idea of what we can do with the other deliverables
18:13:43 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: there'll be some fine point discussion of AS2
18:13:56 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: and also some fine point discussion of the other documents, to sketch out a roadmap for the next 9 months or beyond
18:14:02 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: any other questions about the Mar 16 event?
18:14:14 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: no questions, lets move on
18:14:46 [dmitriz]
TOPIC: Discussion about issues regarding Activity Streams 2.0
18:15:03 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: there are 3 big things we need to do to take AS2 to CR
18:15:09 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: 1) resolve outstanding issues.
18:15:21 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: according to James - Arnaud, do you want to take it?
18:15:28 [dmitriz]
Arnaud: no, go ahead
18:15:48 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: James is happy where the document is. And would like to take it to another Working Draft, which is what we would be discussing at our face to face
18:16:02 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: overall, we've had some new issues in the last couple of weeks, most of them either fine points or very general points
18:16:14 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: but there's no blocking issues, work can move forward
18:16:25 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: actually, the one big blocking issues that we do have is — conformance
18:16:31 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: which is in my corner right now
18:16:43 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: I'll be coordinating the next few days with James, to make sure we get the conformance section into the doc
18:16:51 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: I'll need to set up a PR, and make sure we get that section in there
18:16:56 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: before the next working draft
18:17:16 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: the next big point for AS2 is:
18:17:20 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: 2) Test suite
18:17:37 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: we have two sides to the test suite
18:17:51 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: one is - test documents. 100+ docs, useful for someone who is trying to parse ActivityStreams
18:18:12 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: this seems to be at a stable point, there is one PR to pull in the docs from James (I'll be working on that the next few days)
18:18:12 [eprodrom]
18:18:19 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: we're looking for other AS2 documents
18:18:29 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: the other side, that's under active development is the Validator
18:18:36 [eprodrom]
18:18:36 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: I'm continuing work on it, but looking for more participation there
18:18:47 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: the validator is pretty basic right now, basically giving a +1 / -1 on docs.
18:18:47 [wilkie]
I got it up and running and have been looking at it
18:18:59 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: should be providing finer points / feedback on the spec, in addition
18:19:07 [eprodrom]
18:19:23 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: I'd like it to be showing a hierarchy of different kinds of notes or warnings on the AS2 docs posted
18:19:38 [wilkie]
18:19:42 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: is it providing the right MIME Type, are there missing recommended properties, are there non-recommended properties present, that sort of thing
18:20:02 [Loqi]
Sandro made 5 edits to [[Socialwg/DocumentStatus]]
18:20:03 [Loqi]
Sandro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]]
18:20:04 [Loqi]
Kmarks2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-03-16]]
18:20:05 [Loqi]
Dromasca made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-03-16]]
18:20:10 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: my two big things over the next few weeks are: 1) to get conformance section added asap, and 2) get the validator to be a much more useful tool for implementors
18:20:24 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: hopefully it'll be ready by the March 16 meeting
18:20:31 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: any questions about AS2.0, and where we are?
18:20:35 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: test suite, conformance, etc?
18:20:56 [dmitriz]
bengo: I filed an issue on AS2 validator
18:21:07 [dmitriz]
bengo: the question is - are AS1 documents valid for AS2?
18:21:17 [dmitriz]
bengo: we have a few AS1 docs, should they be added to the test repos?
18:21:31 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: I can't say 100% on this, but my understanding is that we are NOT maintaining backwards compat with 1.0
18:21:34 [wilkie]
that's my understanding too
18:21:35 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: so those AS1 docs would not be valid
18:21:36 [bengo]
18:22:01 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: the only role that AS1.0 docs would play in any sort of validation process, is — we do use Content-Type switching
18:22:05 [wilkie]
they have a very different content type in the spec to assert that
18:22:06 [wilkie]
18:22:13 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: so if you get the older Content-Type, you'll know it's AS1, if newer, AS2
18:22:18 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: and that'll be something worth taesting
18:22:37 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: that said, there's probably some value in converting the AS1 docs to AS2, and including them into the suite
18:22:50 [dmitriz]
bengo: I'll close the issue
18:23:05 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: your discussion about tweets on the agenda — it's a little farther down, will be discussed later today
18:23:11 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: actually, we are at that point!
18:23:17 [dmitriz]
TOPIC: Representing Tweets in AS2
18:23:27 [bengo]
18:23:40 [dmitriz]
bengo: this is relevant to what my employer does
18:23:47 [dmitriz]
bengo: social media aggregation from all the social networks.
18:23:55 [dmitriz]
bengo: the AS2 vocab is important to us for interop
18:24:07 [dmitriz]
bengo: tweets are sort of the straw man, but any big Social Media vocabs/schemas are relevant
18:24:20 [dmitriz]
bengo: I know we talked briefly before about having some sort of official registry
18:24:26 [eprodrom]
18:24:28 [dmitriz]
bengo: I'm not sure how to proceed, curious what other people think
18:24:29 [eprodrom]
18:24:39 [KevinMarks]
q+use URLS
18:24:44 [dmitriz]
bengo: what domain / dns record should this extension live on, in the long term, etc
18:24:52 [dmitriz]
bengo: I don't want this to be something that only we use
18:25:02 [eprodrom]
ack KevinMarks
18:25:05 [dmitriz]
KevinMarks: you don't need to create a new magic thing for Twitter
18:25:08 [eprodrom]
ack use
18:25:12 [eprodrom]
ack URLS
18:25:25 [dmitriz]
KevinMarks: you can actually construct the URLs using the tweet IDs, and use those as the AS2 object IDs
18:25:42 [dmitriz]
bengo: I'm hearing silence
18:25:49 [dmitriz]
Arnaud: same here
18:25:56 [bengo]
URLs good for use case. Was thinking about that on the way home yesterday. Still doesnt solve for the larger registry use case
18:25:58 [dmitriz]
KevinMarks: aaa, forgot to unmute!
18:26:06 [wilkie]
dmitriz: that's evan
18:26:11 [dmitriz]
KevinMarks: ben has mentioned earlier that he understood that there are different ways to do this
18:26:17 [aaronpk]
18:26:21 [dmitriz]
KevinMarks: the fact that Twitter has relatively good URLs is useful
18:26:30 [wilkie]
s/evanpro/eprodrom :)
18:26:30 [eprodrom]
dmitriz: that's me
18:26:31 [dmitriz]
KevinMarks: ben - why are the URLs not appropriate in this case?
18:27:06 [eprodrom]
18:27:35 [dmitriz]
bengo: doesn't this require idiosyncratic handling for each of the big social network provider, to make the URLs?
18:27:40 [bengo] or
18:27:42 [Loqi]
@bengo :: #sb50 #rollingstonelive
18:27:54 [azaroth]
18:28:17 [dmitriz]
bengo: what about changing usernames? that changes the URLs
18:28:20 [bengo]
KevinMarks: you're right I forgot
18:28:24 [eprodrom]
18:28:25 [bengo]
18:28:27 [eprodrom]
18:28:39 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: actually, Twitter does the right thing and does 301 redirects
18:28:48 [eprodrom]
dmitriz: that was KevinMarks !
18:28:55 [KevinMarks]
if you fetch you get a 301 to
18:28:58 [Loqi]
@bengo :: #sb50 #rollingstonelive
18:29:08 [eprodrom]
He has the English accent; I sound like I live on the beach in San Diego
18:29:33 [dmitriz]
Rob: is there some other identity that's important to manage, aside from the twitter id?
18:30:03 [dmitriz]
bengo: for our particular use case, dereferencing to AS2 is less important
18:30:05 [tsyesika]
It could be worth people saying who they are prior to speaking on the call to make it easier for the scribe
18:30:29 [KevinMarks]
twitter published an oembed json alternte, they could add an as2 one if they felt like it
18:30:31 [dmitriz]
bengo: it's more important to publish and aggregate
18:30:53 [bengo]
18:30:58 [tsyesika]
dmitriz: yes
18:31:02 [azaroth]
ack azaroth
18:31:06 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: we should do both
18:31:18 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: use the twitter URL for ID, and also have a snowflake property for twitter, in addition
18:31:33 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: so I think your question is, "how do you specify what that is? what the extension id is?"
18:31:34 [KevinMarks]
twitter has a json alternative already in
18:31:37 [bengo]
Draft extension on socialwg wiki?
18:31:49 [KevinMarks]
which you cna follow your node to
18:31:55 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: it seems to me like there's 2 possibilities. one is that we could have a property within AS2, for something like vendor_id or alternative_id or something like that
18:32:01 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: which is non-iri, non-url id
18:32:10 [eprodrom]
tweetID or snowflakeID
18:32:13 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: the other option is that it's simply an extension, tweet_id or snowflake_id
18:32:27 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: i would lean towards the second
18:32:32 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: it makes more sense to me there
18:32:41 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: ben, I think you were asking - what's the process for actually defining those extensions?
18:32:55 [dmitriz]
bengo: yeah. and I agree with you on the snowflakeID thing
18:33:08 [dmitriz]
bengo: the question is - where is a good place to register that extension vocab?
18:33:33 [dmitriz]
bengo: for the moment, we can just host it on the W3C wiki, and once there's an actual drafted extension, we can worry bout it then
18:33:46 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: right, we can throw a drafted extension pretty quickly on the wiki
18:33:53 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: and there may be other properties of a tweet that might need to go there
18:34:06 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: it's a pretty important use case, and I think we should be able to reach it
18:34:15 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: ben, I guess what I'm asking is, would you mind starting a Wiki page on this?
18:34:20 [dmitriz]
bengo: I don't mind, I will do that
18:34:23 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: awesome.
18:34:39 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: what would be ideal is - being able to take something like "anatomy of a tweet"
18:34:49 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: no, that's not it
18:34:58 [bengo]
18:35:10 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: there is a page on the Twitter Developer site that shows taking Twitter's JSON step by step, explaining what everything does
18:35:18 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: we should be able to map those relatively directly to AS2 format
18:35:25 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: and in places that we can't, there should be an extension mechanism
18:35:29 [dmitriz]
bengo: sounds good
18:35:38 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: great, let's move on
18:35:48 [dmitriz]
TOPIC: Update on MicroPub
18:35:56 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: aaron?
18:36:09 [dmitriz]
aaronpk: I've been working on incorporating issues on Micropub
18:36:12 [aaronpk]
18:36:20 [dmitriz]
aaronpk: over on github. here's the link to the latest draft with the changes
18:36:36 [dmitriz]
aaronpk: basically, the changes are - updated the normative references
18:36:50 [dmitriz]
aaronpk: mistakenly made a bunch of them non-normative
18:36:56 [dmitriz]
aaronpk: added a section on querying the source of posts, for editing
18:37:11 [dmitriz]
aaronpk: working on a couple other things, will have another draft published for the next meeting
18:37:18 [dmitriz]
aaronpk: please review GitHub issues and changes
18:37:25 [dmitriz]
aaronpk: and file any CR-blocking issues sooner rather than later
18:37:32 [dmitriz]
aaronpk: so I can address them. I'd like to make a bunch of progress this week
18:37:35 [dmitriz]
aaronpk: any other questions
18:37:52 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: I have a general question
18:38:03 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: and leads to our next agenda item
18:38:23 [dmitriz]
TOPIC: Laying out a Roadmap for the next 9 Months in our F-to-F
18:38:34 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: the big thing that I'd like to ask is - would you mind, over the next few days,
18:38:41 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: thinking about what our next steps are, with MicroPub
18:38:52 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: what's needed, what are the big outstanding issues, are there problems
18:38:58 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: and what do we do to take it to the next steps
18:39:09 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: Arnaud and Sandro - is that what we're looking for?
18:39:14 [dmitriz]
Arnaud and Sandro: yes
18:39:20 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: so, we're looking for the next steps, with MP
18:39:23 [sandro]
18:39:32 [dmitriz]
Sandro: I went ahead and made a wiki page for the status of all our current docs
18:39:42 [dmitriz]
sandro: if somebody has a better organization, that's fine
18:39:49 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: fantastic, that's great, thank you for doing that, Sandro
18:39:58 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: we'd like to start collecting the status
18:40:05 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: we've had kind of an explosion of docs over the last couple of months
18:40:14 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: so now the question is - where are we taking them next?
18:40:26 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: so if we can update the status on the wiki, it'll help us make decisions during the f-to-f
18:40:37 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: any questions from the editors?
18:41:03 [cwebber2]
18:41:15 [cwebber2]
that's aaron
18:41:15 [eprodrom]
dmitriz: that's aaronpk
18:41:31 [dmitriz]
aaronpk: it occurred to me that I'd like to publish another draft, and I would like people to review the current draft
18:41:48 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: any other questions from editors? if not, happy to move on with agenda
18:41:58 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: no questions
18:42:10 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: next, I'm gonna ask Chris and Jessica about federation work
18:42:11 [tsyesika]
I can
18:42:18 [dmitriz]
TOPIC: Micropub Federation Work
18:42:46 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: I've been working over the last 1.5 years to bring federation to MediaGoblin
18:42:58 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: to implement AS1.0 via API
18:43:10 [cwebber2] <- mediagoblin federating TO!
18:43:10 [tsyesika]
18:43:15 [cwebber2]
18:43:16 [cwebber2]
18:43:20 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: last week, I had the first instance of federating media from MediaGoblin via
18:43:27 [wilkie]
18:43:32 [cwebber2]
ignore the ugly client screenshot... unthemed QT!
18:43:42 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: currently polishing it up
18:43:51 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: I've got receiving federated activities still to do
18:43:54 [cwebber2]
but that's the pump api for client -> server, and then mediagoblin <->, server to server federation
18:43:55 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: but shouldn't be too much work
18:44:32 [cwebber2]
18:44:42 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: couple of questions for you -
18:45:10 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: 1) how will AP be improved by your experience implementing federation?
18:45:24 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: 2) how will MediaGoblin make use of AP in the future?
18:45:37 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: I'm not sure about #1
18:45:53 [bengo]
tsyesika: cwebber2: Is there a web sequence diagram for how this works? It would be helpful to refer to
18:45:55 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: a lot of the work has just been based on going through and formalizing the various aspects, trying to make the specs more concise
18:46:02 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: but I think it was a very good foundation to base on
18:46:18 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: as for question 2, my funding will be running out at MediaGoblin,
18:46:29 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: but I hope to continue working - I know Chris wants to continue federation work
18:46:39 [cwebber2]
bengo, there isn't, maybe I can do an ascii art version ;)
18:46:41 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: I'm hoping to get ActivityPub support when it's a littl emore mature
18:46:42 [tsyesika]
I'm done :)
18:47:00 [bengo]
cwebber2: I'd benefit from it! is good too
18:47:02 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: thank you very much, and congrats on the work, it's really impressive
18:47:17 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: oh, last question - if people want to take a look at this particular code,
18:47:20 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: is it on the master branch?
18:47:33 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: no, not on master. I have a fork of it
18:47:44 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: that I use, so that the main repo doesn't get cluttered up
18:47:53 [dmitriz]
tsyesika: I'll make a push after the meeting, so that people can see it
18:47:55 [tsyesika]
18:48:05 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: yeah, if you can push it and share the branch on the channel or mailing list that'd be really helpful
18:48:10 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: fantastic, thank you very much
18:48:18 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: that does take us to the end of our scheduled agenda
18:48:25 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: we are a little more than 10 mins ahead of the hour
18:48:37 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: this is the time where we go over issues from Tracker
18:48:44 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: as I'm looking, we don't have any new or pending issues
18:48:54 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: but I do want to give a moment to see if we have any updates on issues from Tracker
18:49:08 [tsyesika] <- this will be where i'll push to
18:49:10 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: this is becoming less and less frequent as we're moving our issue tracking to GitHub, but it's worthwhile to still do it
18:49:20 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: if not, open it up to any other questions or business we need to discuss
18:49:30 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: ok, unless there's anything else to discuss,
18:49:53 [tsyesika]
I'll definitely do it this evening :)
18:49:55 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: — jessia, please push soon AND take a hard drive backup! :) don't tempt fate
18:50:04 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: otherwise I'd like to offer everyone their 10 mins back
18:50:14 [dmitriz]
eprodrom: and thanks Tantek for chairing the meeting
18:50:23 [eprodrom]
trackbot, end meeting
18:50:23 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
18:50:23 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been aaronpk, eprodrom, Arnaud, dmitriz, wilkie, cwebber, Rob_Sanderson, sandro, shevski, bengo, tsyesika, dromasca, KevinMarks
18:50:24 [KevinMarks]
18:50:31 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:50:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
18:50:32 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
18:50:32 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items