18:01:30 RRSAgent has joined #social 18:01:30 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-social-irc 18:01:32 RRSAgent, make logs public 18:01:32 Zakim has joined #social 18:01:34 Zakim, this will be SOCL 18:01:34 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 18:01:34 present+ 18:01:35 Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference 18:01:35 Date: 23 February 2016 18:01:43 present+ eprodrom 18:01:55 present+ 18:02:18 present+ 18:02:20 sandro has changed the topic to: Next telcon: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-23 IRC logs: http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today 18:02:21 present+ 18:02:31 present+ 18:02:33 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-23 18:02:34 (but I'm still dialing in) 18:02:44 I accidentally scheduled a meeting for now but it only lasted 1 minute 18:02:52 azaroth has joined #social 18:02:53 Can anyone scribe for this meeting? 18:03:30 Present+ Rob_Sanderson 18:03:52 present+ 18:03:54 bengo has joined #social 18:04:00 present+ 18:04:26 present+ 18:04:46 dromasca has joined #social 18:05:08 present+ 18:05:10 scribenick: dmitriz 18:06:27 dialed in 18:06:40 present+ 18:06:59 https://www.w3.org/2008/04/scribe.html 18:07:14 also https://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html 18:07:40 agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-23#Agenda 18:07:56 TOPIC: Approval of last week's minutes 18:07:59 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-16-minutes 18:08:31 PROPOSED: approve minutes for 2016-02-16 18:08:35 +1 18:08:41 +1 18:08:42 +1 18:08:44 present+ 18:08:45 +1 18:08:48 +1 18:08:50 +1 18:08:53 +1 18:09:06 RESOLVED: approve minutes for 2016-02-16 18:09:39 TOPIC: Admin issues 18:09:47 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-03-16 18:10:03 Cwebber2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97595&oldid=97594 18:10:04 Sandro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/DocumentStatus]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97597&oldid=0 18:10:15 eprodrom: I'd like to recommend that people pay special attention to — we have a face-to-face meeting at MIT, on Mar 16. Please let us know if you're participating. 18:10:53 eprodrom: add an RSVP to that page whether you can or cannot make it (or if you can make it remotely). We will have remote participation 18:11:15 eprodrom: if remote, we expect you to be at a computer, with a microphone, as usual. 18:11:17 where exactly do we rsvp? 18:11:23 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-03-16 18:11:27 there ^ 18:11:34 eprodrom: question is - where do we rsvp? 18:11:34 thx 18:11:35 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-03-16#Participation 18:11:38 will this be a full one day mtg? 18:11:46 two days 18:11:48 eprodrom: there is a section called 'Participation' on the page. edit the wiki to put your name is. 18:12:05 3/16,17 18:12:12 eprodrom: couple more questions. This is a full 2-day meeting, Mar 16 and 17 18:12:26 eprodrom: we are just starting to put together the agenda for this meeting 18:12:36 eprodrom: the two big agenda items are: 1) taking AS2 to CR (Candidate Recommendation) 18:12:49 eprodrom: and the next is: 2) determining the goals and next steps for our other documents 18:13:05 (webmention, micropub, activitypub, social protocols, and any other outstanding FPWDs that we have) 18:13:15 eprodrom: we are about 9 months away from the end of our charter 18:13:33 eprodrom: and so now is a good time for getting an idea of what we can do with the other deliverables 18:13:43 eprodrom: there'll be some fine point discussion of AS2 18:13:56 eprodrom: and also some fine point discussion of the other documents, to sketch out a roadmap for the next 9 months or beyond 18:14:02 eprodrom: any other questions about the Mar 16 event? 18:14:14 eprodrom: no questions, lets move on 18:14:46 TOPIC: Discussion about issues regarding Activity Streams 2.0 18:15:03 eprodrom: there are 3 big things we need to do to take AS2 to CR 18:15:09 eprodrom: 1) resolve outstanding issues. 18:15:21 eprodrom: according to James - Arnaud, do you want to take it? 18:15:28 Arnaud: no, go ahead 18:15:48 eprodrom: James is happy where the document is. And would like to take it to another Working Draft, which is what we would be discussing at our face to face 18:16:02 eprodrom: overall, we've had some new issues in the last couple of weeks, most of them either fine points or very general points 18:16:14 eprodrom: but there's no blocking issues, work can move forward 18:16:25 eprodrom: actually, the one big blocking issues that we do have is — conformance 18:16:31 eprodrom: which is in my corner right now 18:16:43 eprodrom: I'll be coordinating the next few days with James, to make sure we get the conformance section into the doc 18:16:51 eprodrom: I'll need to set up a PR, and make sure we get that section in there 18:16:56 eprodrom: before the next working draft 18:17:16 eprodrom: the next big point for AS2 is: 18:17:20 eprodrom: 2) Test suite 18:17:37 eprodrom: we have two sides to the test suite 18:17:51 eprodrom: one is - test documents. 100+ docs, useful for someone who is trying to parse ActivityStreams 18:18:12 eprodrom: this seems to be at a stable point, there is one PR to pull in the docs from James (I'll be working on that the next few days) 18:18:12 https://github.com/w3c-social/activitystreams-test-documents 18:18:19 eprodrom: we're looking for other AS2 documents 18:18:29 eprodrom: the other side, that's under active development is the Validator 18:18:36 https://github.com/w3c-social/activitystreams-validator 18:18:36 eprodrom: I'm continuing work on it, but looking for more participation there 18:18:47 eprodrom: the validator is pretty basic right now, basically giving a +1 / -1 on docs. 18:18:47 I got it up and running and have been looking at it 18:18:59 eprodrom: should be providing finer points / feedback on the spec, in addition 18:19:07 https://github.com/w3c-social/activitystreams-validator/issues/11 18:19:23 eprodrom: I'd like it to be showing a hierarchy of different kinds of notes or warnings on the AS2 docs posted 18:19:38 cool 18:19:42 eprodrom: is it providing the right MIME Type, are there missing recommended properties, are there non-recommended properties present, that sort of thing 18:20:02 Sandro made 5 edits to [[Socialwg/DocumentStatus]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97606&oldid=97597 18:20:03 Sandro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2016-02-23]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97602&oldid=97595 18:20:04 Kmarks2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-03-16]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97599&oldid=97593 18:20:05 Dromasca made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-03-16]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97604&oldid=97599 18:20:10 eprodrom: my two big things over the next few weeks are: 1) to get conformance section added asap, and 2) get the validator to be a much more useful tool for implementors 18:20:24 eprodrom: hopefully it'll be ready by the March 16 meeting 18:20:31 eprodrom: any questions about AS2.0, and where we are? 18:20:35 eprodrom: test suite, conformance, etc? 18:20:56 bengo: I filed an issue on AS2 validator 18:21:07 bengo: the question is - are AS1 documents valid for AS2? 18:21:17 bengo: we have a few AS1 docs, should they be added to the test repos? 18:21:31 eprodrom: I can't say 100% on this, but my understanding is that we are NOT maintaining backwards compat with 1.0 18:21:34 that's my understanding too 18:21:35 eprodrom: so those AS1 docs would not be valid 18:21:36 https://github.com/w3c-social/activitystreams-test-documents/issues/3 18:22:01 eprodrom: the only role that AS1.0 docs would play in any sort of validation process, is — we do use Content-Type switching 18:22:05 they have a very different content type in the spec to assert that 18:22:06 yeah 18:22:13 eprodrom: so if you get the older Content-Type, you'll know it's AS1, if newer, AS2 18:22:18 eprodrom: and that'll be something worth taesting 18:22:37 eprodrom: that said, there's probably some value in converting the AS1 docs to AS2, and including them into the suite 18:22:50 bengo: I'll close the issue 18:23:05 eprodrom: your discussion about tweets on the agenda — it's a little farther down, will be discussed later today 18:23:11 eprodrom: actually, we are at that point! 18:23:17 TOPIC: Representing Tweets in AS2 18:23:27 https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/283 18:23:40 bengo: this is relevant to what my employer does 18:23:47 bengo: social media aggregation from all the social networks. 18:23:55 bengo: the AS2 vocab is important to us for interop 18:24:07 bengo: tweets are sort of the straw man, but any big Social Media vocabs/schemas are relevant 18:24:20 bengo: I know we talked briefly before about having some sort of official registry 18:24:26 q? 18:24:28 bengo: I'm not sure how to proceed, curious what other people think 18:24:29 q+ 18:24:39 q+use URLS 18:24:44 bengo: what domain / dns record should this extension live on, in the long term, etc 18:24:52 bengo: I don't want this to be something that only we use 18:25:02 ack KevinMarks 18:25:05 KevinMarks: you don't need to create a new magic thing for Twitter 18:25:08 ack use 18:25:12 ack URLS 18:25:25 KevinMarks: you can actually construct the URLs using the tweet IDs, and use those as the AS2 object IDs 18:25:42 bengo: I'm hearing silence 18:25:49 Arnaud: same here 18:25:56 URLs good for use case. Was thinking about that on the way home yesterday. Still doesnt solve for the larger registry use case 18:25:58 KevinMarks: aaa, forgot to unmute! 18:26:06 dmitriz: that's evan 18:26:11 KevinMarks: ben has mentioned earlier that he understood that there are different ways to do this 18:26:17 s/KevinMarks/evanpro 18:26:21 KevinMarks: the fact that Twitter has relatively good URLs is useful 18:26:30 s/evanpro/eprodrom :) 18:26:30 dmitriz: that's me 18:26:31 KevinMarks: ben - why are the URLs not appropriate in this case? 18:27:06 bengo 18:27:35 bengo: doesn't this require idiosyncratic handling for each of the big social network provider, to make the URLs? 18:27:40 https://twitter.com/bengo/status/696429143659917312 or https://twitter.com/_/status/696429143659917312 18:27:42 @bengo :: #sb50 #rollingstonelive https://twitter.com/bengo/status/696429143659917312/photo/1 18:27:54 q+ 18:28:17 bengo: what about changing usernames? that changes the URLs 18:28:20 KevinMarks: you're right I forgot 18:28:24 q= 18:28:25 q? 18:28:27 q- 18:28:39 eprodrom: actually, Twitter does the right thing and does 301 redirects 18:28:48 dmitriz: that was KevinMarks ! 18:28:55 if you fetch https://twitter.com/activity-streams/status/696429143659917312 you get a 301 to https://twitter.com/bengo/status/696429143659917312/photo/1 18:28:58 @bengo :: #sb50 #rollingstonelive https://twitter.com/bengo/status/696429143659917312/photo/1 18:29:08 He has the English accent; I sound like I live on the beach in San Diego 18:29:33 Rob: is there some other identity that's important to manage, aside from the twitter id? 18:30:03 bengo: for our particular use case, dereferencing to AS2 is less important 18:30:05 It could be worth people saying who they are prior to speaking on the call to make it easier for the scribe 18:30:29 twitter published an oembed json alternte, they could add an as2 one if they felt like it 18:30:31 bengo: it's more important to publish and aggregate 18:30:53 q+ 18:30:58 dmitriz: yes 18:31:02 ack azaroth 18:31:06 eprodrom: we should do both 18:31:18 eprodrom: use the twitter URL for ID, and also have a snowflake property for twitter, in addition 18:31:33 eprodrom: so I think your question is, "how do you specify what that is? what the extension id is?" 18:31:34 twitter has a json alternative already in https://api.twitter.com/1/statuses/oembed.json?id=696429143659917312 18:31:37 Draft extension on socialwg wiki? 18:31:49 which you cna follow your node to 18:31:55 eprodrom: it seems to me like there's 2 possibilities. one is that we could have a property within AS2, for something like vendor_id or alternative_id or something like that 18:32:01 eprodrom: which is non-iri, non-url id 18:32:10 tweetID or snowflakeID 18:32:13 eprodrom: the other option is that it's simply an extension, tweet_id or snowflake_id 18:32:27 eprodrom: i would lean towards the second 18:32:32 eprodrom: it makes more sense to me there 18:32:41 eprodrom: ben, I think you were asking - what's the process for actually defining those extensions? 18:32:55 bengo: yeah. and I agree with you on the snowflakeID thing 18:33:08 bengo: the question is - where is a good place to register that extension vocab? 18:33:33 bengo: for the moment, we can just host it on the W3C wiki, and once there's an actual drafted extension, we can worry bout it then 18:33:46 eprodrom: right, we can throw a drafted extension pretty quickly on the wiki 18:33:53 eprodrom: and there may be other properties of a tweet that might need to go there 18:34:06 eprodrom: it's a pretty important use case, and I think we should be able to reach it 18:34:15 eprodrom: ben, I guess what I'm asking is, would you mind starting a Wiki page on this? 18:34:20 bengo: I don't mind, I will do that 18:34:23 eprodrom: awesome. 18:34:39 eprodrom: what would be ideal is - being able to take something like "anatomy of a tweet" 18:34:49 eprodrom: no, that's not it 18:34:58 https://dev.twitter.com/overview/api/tweets 18:35:10 eprodrom: there is a page on the Twitter Developer site that shows taking Twitter's JSON step by step, explaining what everything does 18:35:18 eprodrom: we should be able to map those relatively directly to AS2 format 18:35:25 eprodrom: and in places that we can't, there should be an extension mechanism 18:35:29 bengo: sounds good 18:35:38 eprodrom: great, let's move on 18:35:48 TOPIC: Update on MicroPub 18:35:56 eprodrom: aaron? 18:36:09 aaronpk: I've been working on incorporating issues on Micropub 18:36:12 http://micropub.net/draft/ 18:36:20 aaronpk: over on github. here's the link to the latest draft with the changes 18:36:36 aaronpk: basically, the changes are - updated the normative references 18:36:50 aaronpk: mistakenly made a bunch of them non-normative 18:36:56 aaronpk: added a section on querying the source of posts, for editing 18:37:11 aaronpk: working on a couple other things, will have another draft published for the next meeting 18:37:18 aaronpk: please review GitHub issues and changes 18:37:25 aaronpk: and file any CR-blocking issues sooner rather than later 18:37:32 aaronpk: so I can address them. I'd like to make a bunch of progress this week 18:37:35 aaronpk: any other questions 18:37:52 eprodrom: I have a general question 18:38:03 eprodrom: and leads to our next agenda item 18:38:23 TOPIC: Laying out a Roadmap for the next 9 Months in our F-to-F 18:38:34 eprodrom: the big thing that I'd like to ask is - would you mind, over the next few days, 18:38:41 eprodrom: thinking about what our next steps are, with MicroPub 18:38:52 eprodrom: what's needed, what are the big outstanding issues, are there problems 18:38:58 eprodrom: and what do we do to take it to the next steps 18:39:09 eprodrom: Arnaud and Sandro - is that what we're looking for? 18:39:14 Arnaud and Sandro: yes 18:39:20 eprodrom: so, we're looking for the next steps, with MP 18:39:23 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/DocumentStatus 18:39:32 Sandro: I went ahead and made a wiki page for the status of all our current docs 18:39:42 sandro: if somebody has a better organization, that's fine 18:39:49 eprodrom: fantastic, that's great, thank you for doing that, Sandro 18:39:58 eprodrom: we'd like to start collecting the status 18:40:05 eprodrom: we've had kind of an explosion of docs over the last couple of months 18:40:14 eprodrom: so now the question is - where are we taking them next? 18:40:26 eprodrom: so if we can update the status on the wiki, it'll help us make decisions during the f-to-f 18:40:37 eprodrom: any questions from the editors? 18:41:03 *page 18:41:15 that's aaron 18:41:15 dmitriz: that's aaronpk 18:41:31 aaronpk: it occurred to me that I'd like to publish another draft, and I would like people to review the current draft 18:41:48 eprodrom: any other questions from editors? if not, happy to move on with agenda 18:41:58 eprodrom: no questions 18:42:10 eprodrom: next, I'm gonna ask Chris and Jessica about federation work 18:42:11 I can 18:42:18 TOPIC: Micropub Federation Work 18:42:46 tsyesika: I've been working over the last 1.5 years to bring federation to MediaGoblin 18:42:58 tsyesika: to implement AS1.0 via Pump.io API 18:43:10 https://identi.ca/mediagoblin/image/yCNd5dD-S8GL-DCwh50CPw <- mediagoblin federating TO pump.io! 18:43:10 https://identi.ca/mediagoblin/image/yCNd5dD-S8GL-DCwh50CPw 18:43:15 haha 18:43:16 :D 18:43:20 tsyesika: last week, I had the first instance of federating media from MediaGoblin via Pump.io 18:43:27 yay 18:43:32 ignore the ugly client screenshot... unthemed QT! 18:43:42 tsyesika: currently polishing it up 18:43:51 tsyesika: I've got receiving federated activities still to do 18:43:54 but that's the pump api for client -> server, and then mediagoblin <-> pump.io, server to server federation 18:43:55 tsyesika: but shouldn't be too much work 18:44:32 yes 18:44:42 eprodrom: couple of questions for you - 18:45:10 eprodrom: 1) how will AP be improved by your experience implementing federation? 18:45:24 eprodrom: 2) how will MediaGoblin make use of AP in the future? 18:45:37 tsyesika: I'm not sure about #1 18:45:53 tsyesika: cwebber2: Is there a web sequence diagram for how this works? It would be helpful to refer to 18:45:55 tsyesika: a lot of the work has just been based on going through and formalizing the various aspects, trying to make the specs more concise 18:46:02 tsyesika: but I think it was a very good foundation to base on 18:46:18 tsyesika: as for question 2, my funding will be running out at MediaGoblin, 18:46:29 tsyesika: but I hope to continue working - I know Chris wants to continue federation work 18:46:39 bengo, there isn't, maybe I can do an ascii art version ;) 18:46:41 tsyesika: I'm hoping to get ActivityPub support when it's a littl emore mature 18:46:42 I'm done :) 18:47:00 cwebber2: I'd benefit from it! https://www.websequencediagrams.com/ is good too 18:47:02 eprodrom: thank you very much, and congrats on the work, it's really impressive 18:47:17 eprodrom: oh, last question - if people want to take a look at this particular code, 18:47:20 eprodrom: is it on the master branch? 18:47:33 tsyesika: no, not on master. I have a fork of it 18:47:44 tsyesika: that I use, so that the main repo doesn't get cluttered up 18:47:53 tsyesika: I'll make a push after the meeting, so that people can see it 18:47:55 absolutely 18:48:05 eprodrom: yeah, if you can push it and share the branch on the channel or mailing list that'd be really helpful 18:48:10 eprodrom: fantastic, thank you very much 18:48:18 eprodrom: that does take us to the end of our scheduled agenda 18:48:25 eprodrom: we are a little more than 10 mins ahead of the hour 18:48:37 eprodrom: this is the time where we go over issues from Tracker 18:48:44 eprodrom: as I'm looking, we don't have any new or pending issues 18:48:54 eprodrom: but I do want to give a moment to see if we have any updates on issues from Tracker 18:49:08 https://notabug.org/Tsyesika/federated-mediagoblin/src/federation <- this will be where i'll push to 18:49:10 eprodrom: this is becoming less and less frequent as we're moving our issue tracking to GitHub, but it's worthwhile to still do it 18:49:20 eprodrom: if not, open it up to any other questions or business we need to discuss 18:49:30 eprodrom: ok, unless there's anything else to discuss, 18:49:53 I'll definitely do it this evening :) 18:49:55 eprodrom: — jessia, please push soon AND take a hard drive backup! :) don't tempt fate 18:50:04 eprodrom: otherwise I'd like to offer everyone their 10 mins back 18:50:14 eprodrom: and thanks Tantek for chairing the meeting 18:50:23 trackbot, end meeting 18:50:23 Zakim, list attendees 18:50:23 As of this point the attendees have been aaronpk, eprodrom, Arnaud, dmitriz, wilkie, cwebber, Rob_Sanderson, sandro, shevski, bengo, tsyesika, dromasca, KevinMarks 18:50:24 ? 18:50:31 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:50:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-social-minutes.html trackbot 18:50:32 RRSAgent, bye 18:50:32 I see no action items